Organised crime and drugs in sport investigation

[The Great Dane]

All I'm worried about is this shit ruining the 2013 season with suspensions of top players and shit like that, I'll be fumin.

This is exactly what I am worried about, if they don't have this over and done with by the start of the season then the whole competition could be ruined with speculation about whether this match was fixed or if this player is using HGH.

As it is already a lot of this is going to happen, but it will be worse if the investigation carries out during some of the season, or even worse the whole season.

I personally will be fuming if a club is found guilty during the season and have all to pull out of the comp or something stupid like that halfway through the season, though I still don't think that it is likely that any NRL team will have to pull out, but I reckon a there will be a fair few individual players that get caught and that will be devastating for there fans especially if they are a big name star player.

 

[Fire]

Go the Dragons!!!

 

[GongPanther]

Two points:

- Phil Gould hasn't seen the special reports naming names that the ACC gave to the sporting bodies and neither have you. Actually giving them names sounds to me like they know something.

- The ACC don't have the powers to charge anyone with a crime. That is left to the relevant authority depending on the offence. When the police come out ASADA come out say they have no evidence to charge anyone then you can say they have nothing

I posted this earlier yesterday.

I haven't had the time to read it,but I know there are no names in to report cause it would have been splashed in all over todays papers.

http://www.crimecommission.gov.au/s...ganised-crime-and-drugs-in-sports-feb2013.pdf

 

[docbrown]

Look around you. Some of the people you see may in fact be drug cheats.

Honestly, this is already at media witch hunt levels. I've already heard the "won't somebody think of the children" line.

When you start running opinion polls that imply widespread condemnation with either response you've lost your credibility.

I have no doubt there are drug cheats in sport. But if it took them this long to compile the report still talking in an obfuscatory manner and can't name names publicly, then unless players/coaches/trainers come out and confess on their own accord then it all looks rather flimsy at the moment.


WAIT A SECOND! Scandal Update!

This just in - it was a jam jar full of old piss. Tracy Grimshaw to taste test it at 7pm! Stay tuned!

 

[Phil McGrawhan]

If i was in charge of investigating then
First bloke i would be looking at is Mythcell Piss.
No one can be that f**king useless for so long for it not to be suss.

 

[Eaglebuzz]

I see. Still doesn't make a lot of sense. Swapping urine is not going to fool ASADA testers and I can't see old urine samples being swappable at a later time. Either way there must be some reason for it. I just don't know what exactly. And there's only one club that could have done it really.

I'd be interested to know why you think it wouldn't work? Providing someone else's urine is the easiest way to fool a drug test. That's how cyclists used to beat them... the hard bit is making it look like you're peeing when you're actually delivering someone else's pee, but there are ways of doing it.


And yes if the urine is years old then it's not likely to fool anyone, but if it's reasonably fresh then I can't see why it would be an issue. I did an honours project at the lab where ASADA sends their samples a couple of years ago and they have fridges and freezers that sit there with samples of piss in them for days and weeks at a time. And it's not like they do DNA tests to make sure it came from the right person...

(I felt weird saying "urine" over and over again so I mixed it up a bit...)

 

[East Coast Tiger]

I'd be interested to know why you think it wouldn't work? Providing someone else's urine is the easiest way to fool a drug test. That's how cyclists used to beat them... the hard bit is making it look like you're peeing when you're actually delivering someone else's pee, but there are ways of doing it.


And yes if the urine is years old then it's not likely to fool anyone, but if it's reasonably fresh then I can't see why it would be an issue. I did an honours project at the lab where ASADA sends their samples a couple of years ago and they have fridges and freezers that sit there with samples of piss in them for days and weeks at a time. And it's not like they do DNA tests to make sure it came from the right person...

(I felt weird saying "urine" over and over again so I mixed it up a bit...)

Exactly, they have fridges and stuff. They don't hide them in pipes in dressing rooms for God knows how long. I think it was a reasonable question to ask why they would do such a thing. I can't see how vials of "clean" piss hidden in a dressing room is going to be of much use when a drug tester walks in and says "piss in this bottle". Interesting enough for you?

 

[Eaglebuzz]

Exactly, they have fridges and stuff. They don't hide them in pipes in dressing rooms for God knows how long. I think it was a reasonable question to ask why they would do such a thing. I can't see how vials of "clean" piss hidden in a dressing room is going to be of much use when a drug tester walks in and says "piss in this bottle". Interesting enough for you?

I envision that if the jar was indeed for drug tester fooling purposes it would be left over from something that was going on 5 years ago. But the idea of having a stash stored in a cool place for a day or two prior to testing doesn't seem that far fetched to me. Some of the samples that come through are pretty heinous at their best so I'm not sure that there'd be any real indicators of age if the sample were only a day or two old. Really the only indication would be smaller peaks on the LCMS for any compounds that have decomposed but that can be caused by any of a hundred factors...

The hardest part would be fooling the people who show up to collect the samples. Unless of course they're in on it too, in which case it would be stupidly easy...

 

[Charles Bronson]

Go the Dragons!!!

This.

 

[Rosetta]

Dank's lawyer coming out calling it a conspiracy sounds familiar.

 

[The Mad Hatter]

I was only just enjoying another thumb through Arthur Miller's excellent play, The Crucible when I was side tracked to this thread.

 

[atticus]

Fairly sure the piss has to be a certain temperature, body temp or whatever, when doing a test otherwise they can tell it's fake. So keeping it in a fridge wouldn't work. Especially if it were just a few players who didn't want everyone else to know. It would look a bit suss to open the fridge in the dressing room and see a few jars of piss next to the alcoholic cans of piss.

 

[SilentOne]

because it's old piss, can they still get dna from it?

 

[1 Eyed TEZZA]

because it's old piss, can they still get dna from it?

No. Fairly certain you cant get DNA from urine unless it has blood in it.

 

[APRIL BELLE]

I wonder how many guilty players implicated themselves today when they got on their "tapped" telephones and asked their agents or suppliers what they should.

 

[The Mad Hatter]

But everyone thinks it's a winning NRL club that should be implicated.

In 2012, Essendon came 11th out of 18.

That's like 13th out of 16 in the NRL.

 

[Jubileeboy]

No. Fairly certain you cant get DNA from urine unless it has blood in it.

You can.

 

[tumbidragon]

Seems the media is taking the, piss?...

 

[Eaglebuzz]

because it's old piss, can they still get dna from it?

Yeah urine will inevitably have some endothelial cells in it, and maybe a few random white blood cells and anything else that might be swishing around in the kidneys/ureter/bladder/urethra regions but there wouldn't be many of them. DNA is relatively stable too so it should last, although I don't know if any stability trials have been done on DNA sitting in a jar of piss for a few years at a stadium :sarcasm:

The real issue is the practicality of it though. The ASDTL doesn't do DNA tests, so they'd have to outsource it. And that is just prohibitively expensive, there isn't a whole lot of money in the enforcement side of sports drugs...

 

[The Mad Hatter]

It seems odd though, doesn't it?

A jar of piss, hidden in a pipe.