Origin clearly no longer the pinnacle

[RoosTah]

Yesterday afternoon we saw a bruising international between Australia and New Zealand in which the Kiwis comprehensively outplayed a star studded and pretty well full strength Aussie line-up. The Kiwis, full of passion in defence countered almost every Kangaroo foray into their territory in a manner that mirrored NSW against Qld during last year’s Origin. But unlike the Blues, they also scored a bag full of tries, capitalising on every opportunity given them with brilliant ball in hand movement so that the game was effectively over at half time.

Unsurprisingly given the last minute schedule change and the fact that Brisbane and its surrounding areas were still counting the costs of Friday’s incredible downpour, the crowd was a little down at around 35k, but the intensity of the match and the passion and pride shown by the Kiwis was of the same type that made Qld sides such compelling viewing throughout the history of Origin.

Much like how Origin began with NSW taking Qld for granted, Australia have taken NZ for granted and inexplicably continued to whilst the Kiwis have steadily collected titles from us. These mid-year tests were often cited as an example of why the Kiwis “weren’t really” a match for us, with the argument being that it was one of the few times both sides were more genuinely at full strength. It’s an argument that favoured Australia, but given yesterday’s results is it time to finally accept that there may now in fact be a bigger contest than NSW v Qld?

 

[lockyno1]

LOL just no. Origin will always be better and the ratings will tell that exact point. Is test football improving, of course. However would I be disappointed that I missed a test match? Not at this stage. Can't say that is the same about Origin. I'll be livid if I missed an Origin match.

 

[strong_latte]

LOL just no. Origin will always be better and the ratings will tell that exact point. Is test football improving, of course. However would I be disappointed that I missed a test match? Not at this stage. Can't say that is the same about Origin. I'll be livid if I missed an Origin match.

To be honest mate I reckon that's a more a reflection of Qld's intense parochialism. As a contest Aus v NZ is now higher quality and more even than Origin. Given that the test team has basically the Qld spine and core, the fact that NZ completely dominated such a star studded Aussie roster full of Qld greats it undermines the claim that Origin is truly elite.

For mine this test has MASSIVELY taken the shine off this year's Origin. You can't have the best of both NSW and QLD combined getting schooled and then claim their more diluted forms is some how the pinnacle.

It may be financially for the time being, but as a contest tests have clearly surpassed it.

But that's good for the game frankly, and we should be embracing it.

 

[PhilGould]

It's definitely growing which is a great thing but Origin as a spectacle is still better than any test match. The Samoa vs Tonga game was the best match of Rep Weekend for mine. If they move Origin to stand alone weekends I'd love to see a 3 game Samoa vs Tonga series with it.

 

[Matua]

It's definitely growing which is a great thing but Origin as a spectacle is still better than any test match. The Samoa vs Tonga game was the best match of Rep Weekend for mine. If they move Origin to stand alone weekends I'd love to see a 3 game Samoa vs Tonga series with it.

The ANZAC test would have been a better spectacle if the Roos had provided some half way decent competition. ;-)

 

[lockyno1]

To be honest mate I reckon that's a more a reflection of Qld's intense parochialism. As a contest Aus v NZ is now higher quality and more even than Origin. Given that the test team has basically the Qld spine and core, the fact that NZ completely dominated such a star studded Aussie roster full of Qld greats it undermines the claim that Origin is truly elite.

For mine this test has MASSIVELY taken the shine off this year's Origin. You can't have the best of both NSW and QLD combined getting schooled and then claim their more diluted forms is some how the pinnacle.

It may be financially for the time being, but as a contest tests have clearly surpassed it.

But that's good for the game frankly, and we should be embracing it.

The origin games last year were the best 3 games of the season, and that contest won't be matched. Yes International football is improving, never said otherwise, but it is silly to suggest at this stage it has taken over Origin. Whilst I like to see Australia win, it doesn't bother me if we don't. Much prefer my State to win. So long as my players don't get injured in a test match, that is all I care about at this stage.

 

[strong_latte]

The origin games last year were the best 3 games of the season, and that contest won't be matched. Yes International football is improving, never said otherwise, but it is silly to suggest at this stage it has taken over Origin. Whilst I like to see Australia win, it doesn't bother me if we don't. Much prefer my State to win. So long as my players don't get injured in a test match, that is all I care about at this stage.

I'm not arguing it on a personal preference perspective, I'm just arguing the simple logic of it. Origin can't really be considered the best of the best when you the combined talents of those two teams getting smashed by our neighbors in NZ.

In a lot of ways your attitude reminds me a lot of people in NSW back when Origin was still very new... We took Qld for granted back in those days and you lot hated us for it and came out as hard as possible to prove a point.

But now it seems Aussies - and Qlders especially - just take NZ for granted and don't show them the respect they deserve, so the Kiwis are coming out as hard as possible to prove a point. They showed real passion last night and made massive Aussie stars like Inglis and Thurston look like total chumps.

 

[Canard]

Origin is a grudge match between states, it never has been sold or marketed as the "pinnacle" of anything.

The fact is if people outside of NSW or QLD decide they don't want to watch it or don't like it anymore, it will have zero impact.

I'm still astounded that people would rather a game of Rugby League fail then thrive.

 

[strong_latte]

Origin is a grudge match between states, it never has been sold or marketed as the "pinnacle" of anything.

The fact is if people outside of NSW or QLD decide they don't want to watch it or don't like it anymore, it will have zero impact.

I'm still astounded that people would rather a game of Rugby League fail then thrive.

That's what you call a non sequitur.

I absolutely want the game to thrive and honestly can't understand how you can think wanting the international game to be more successful than origin (as it should be) is in some way arguing for the sport's failure.

To suggest that is frankly bizarre in the extreme...

Also, you have to be kidding when you argue that Origin has never been sold as the pinnacle of anything and is simply seen as a grudge match. Only somebody who'd managed to miss the marketing and commentary around origin for the last 20 years could possibly buy that.

No, quite apart from wanting the game to fail, I want us to get to a place where Origin retains its place in the calendar and its great viewing numbers, but is followed by an even bigger and more successful international series against the Kiwis that supersedes the importance of the Bledisloe Cup in NZ and Origin here.

Why you don't want the international game to thrive is quite beyond me frankly.

 

[Joker's Wild]

lol where did Canard say he didnt want the Int'l game to thrive?

SOO gets death ridden in the Int'l section all the time by mostly insecure poms and kiwis. He has every right to question their motives

 

[RoosTah]

That's what you call a non sequitur.

I absolutely want the game to thrive and honestly can't understand how you can think wanting the international game to be more successful than origin (as it should be) is in some way arguing for the sport's failure.

To suggest that is frankly bizarre in the extreme...

Also, you have to be kidding when you argue that Origin has never been sold as the pinnacle of anything and is simply seen as a grudge match. Only somebody who'd managed to miss the marketing and commentary around origin for the last 20 years could possibly buy that.

No, quite apart from wanting the game to fail, I want us to get to a place where Origin retains its place in the calendar and its great viewing numbers, but is followed by an even bigger and more successful international series against the Kiwis that supersedes the importance of the Bledisloe Cup in NZ and Origin here.

Why you don't want the international game to thrive is quite beyond me frankly.

This.

I honestly don?t get the comments from some on here that are trying to say that arguing NZ?s success in knocking off the Kangaroos so consistently should result in Tests getting more respect and being elevated above Origin is somehow tantamount to a wish that the game ?fail?? anyone who thinks that just has no vision.

Origin is great, but what has more scope, an interstate rivalry or an international rivalry? If we can get this right, a 3 test series against the Kiwis ought to be bigger than Origin and should attract more viewers across Australia and NZ given its more representative and elite nature.

How is that wishing the game to fail? That would mean Rugby League had two MASSIVE representative rivalries that the AFL simply could never produce and would add handsomely to the value of future TV contracts.

 

[strong_latte]

lol where did Canard say he didnt want the Int'l game to thrive?

SOO gets death ridden in the Int'l section all the time by mostly insecure poms and kiwis. He has every right to question their motives

I'm just employing his logic. He thinks that those of us who see internationals as increasingly proving themselves more worthy of the tag of pinnacle some how have it in for rugby league, so I can only assume he thinks international league is bad for the game.

 

[Joker's Wild]

Yeah, not sure thats what he was saying either champ

 

[hellteam]

There used to be a time where only a few (if any) Kiwi players would make either Origin team. Now I reckon most, if not all, would.

Even in saying that, I just don't think it can rival Origin for passion, and therefore, interest. Origin has taught me so much to hate NSW that I can't support any team with players like Bird, Gallen etc, even when there are many Qlders in the team. It's strange.

 

[strong_latte]

Yeah, not sure thats what he was saying either champ

Yeah, well champ he did explicitly ask why we all "want the game to fail rather then (sic) thrive" so it's not exactly a matter of opinion.

 

[betcats]

SOO is not the pinnacle anymore. Many of the best players on the world are not Aussies, how can it be the pinnacle anymore?

I'd take the Kiwi pack over the QLD and Blues pack easily, that without Taumolololololo. Add him in there and geez that's a crazy good forward pack.

 

[RoosTah]

There used to be a time where only a few (if any) Kiwi players would make either Origin team. Now I reckon most, if not all, would.

Even in saying that, I just don't think it can rival Origin for passion, and therefore, interest. Origin has taught me so much to hate NSW that I can't support any team with players like Bird, Gallen etc, even when there are many Qlders in the team. It's strange.

Well you just proved strong_latte's point that in Qld you treat NZ with the same disinterest as NSW treated Qld for so long, so it's no wonder you don't have quite the same passion.

Qlders have always said we can't match their passion at Origin time, and generally that's true and the contest isn't quite the big deal down here as it is up there (not a small deal, but you'd know what I mean if you'd been in Sydney and Brisbane in an origin week).

So maybe that's where we're at - Qld make up the bulk of the Aussie team and they treat NZ as a little brother in the way NSW did to Qld, so they can't get up for it like the do in Origin.

That's our problem though, because the Kiwis sure as f### can deliver the same passion.

The Kiwis have been treating games against the Kangaroos like they're GFs for yeas now and have pulled our pants down on plenty of occasions as a result. Did you watch the game last night? The kiwis were defending their line as if their lives depended on it - it was no less spectacular than NSW in game 1 last year.

What I don't get is why Qlders have such trouble acknowledging they're treating NZ in the same way NSW used to treat Qld. It's little wonder that star Origin players have been made to look like fools by the Kiwis.

 

[hellteam]

Well you just proved strong_latte's point that in Qld you treat NZ with the same disinterest as NSW treated Qld for so long, so it's no wonder you don't have quite the same passion.

Qlders have always said we can't match their passion at Origin time, and generally that's true and the contest isn't quite the big deal down here as it is up there (not a small deal, but you'd know what I mean if you'd been in Sydney and Brisbane in an origin week).

So maybe that's where we're at - Qld make up the bulk of the Aussie team and they treat NZ as a little brother in the way NSW did to Qld, so they can't get up for it like the do in Origin.

That's our problem though, because the Kiwis sure as f### can deliver the same passion.

The Kiwis have been treating games against the Kangaroos like they're GFs for yeas now and have pulled our pants down on plenty of occasions as a result. Did you watch the game last night? The kiwis were defending their line as if their lives depended on it - it was no less spectacular than NSW in game 1 last year.

What I don't get is why Qlders have such trouble acknowledging they're treating NZ in the same way NSW used to treat Qld. It's little wonder that star Origin players have been made to look like fools by the Kiwis.

You're right I reckon. I honestly don't "hate" NZ at all and have often found myself cheering for them against us. Even yesterday when they've beaten us twice in a row.

Even in other sports I often cheer for NZ. NZ against Aus are nearly always underdogs (apart from rugby), and traditionally Qld are the underdogs so I can't help but see the similarities.

 

[Maroon4life]

You're right I reckon. I honestly don't "hate" NZ at all and have often found myself cheering for them against us. Even yesterday when they've beaten us twice in a row.

Even in other sports I often cheer for NZ. NZ against Aus are nearly always underdogs (apart from rugby), and traditionally Qld are the underdogs so I can't help but see the similarities.

Haha same, it's weird to explain but I do find myself hoping the kiwis pull ahead and see if the Aussies can run them down. Also enjoy seeing any of the blues get smashed or make phayle plays.

I find the contest good, has the best players in the world. Just lacks the tribalism/rivalry that Origin has.

 

[Canard]

That's what you call a non sequitur.

I absolutely want the game to thrive and honestly can't understand how you can think wanting the international game to be more successful than origin (as it should be) is in some way arguing for the sport's failure.

To suggest that is frankly bizarre in the extreme...

Also, you have to be kidding when you argue that Origin has never been sold as the pinnacle of anything and is simply seen as a grudge match. Only somebody who'd managed to miss the marketing and commentary around origin for the last 20 years could possibly buy that.

No, quite apart from wanting the game to fail, I want us to get to a place where Origin retains its place in the calendar and its great viewing numbers, but is followed by an even bigger and more successful international series against the Kiwis that supersedes the importance of the Bledisloe Cup in NZ and Origin here.

Why you don't want the international game to thrive is quite beyond me frankly.

Look at 95% of the posts in here,

"Time for Origin to die"
"Stop marketing it"
"Its time has passed"
"Need to stop playing it altogether"

My arguement is why do people want Origin to die? Lets have a BOTH!! A Strong International Scene and Origin scene.

The international weekend is only going to get bigger in my opinion.