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OT: Current Affairs and Politics

Gronk

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With respect, you should be looking at the bigger picture.

Russia has not threatened either Finland or Sweden in any way at all.

By joining an alliance that is anti-Russian, that simply adds more instability to the region and makes them targets.

That simply serves to legitimise Putins representations to his own people and the world that Russia is even more vulnerable to the west and then serves to justify more militarism and potential catastrophe, conventional or nuclear.

The reasons Turkey provided are much less important than the outcome.

That is an outcome that serves to contain the conflict, and promotes the opportunity for peace for Ukraine.

I repeat my point that Russia is a rogue state acting illegally and it’s measures against the Ukraine are clearly misconceived.

But cool heads are needed, now more than ever.

It’s time for everyone to stand down and reach a compromise.

How many more people do we need to see killed.

The Russians can destroy the Ukraine with conventional weapons quite easily and obliterate the world, or parts thereof, beyond that.

You push your enemy into a corner, you make their daily lives unliveable, they conclude they have nothing to lose and they usually fight back.

If we miss a nuclear strike here, then we will get the nuclear winter within the year.

The west should take all opportunities to reduce the tension and restore peace in the region.

The Putin era is not forever and people need to appreciate that.

Many countries have tolerated a few years or decades of hardship and occupation of the whole or regions and have bounced back.

Stop the killing, end the war.
Making pussy decisions right now because you don't want to upset the Russians achieves what ? You have to stand up to bullies mate, not tippy toe around them.

It needs to be demonstrated time and time again that they are the antagonists here and their charade over their bogus "military operation" has to end.

Geeze they threaten a nuke and everyone runs and hides. слишком легко / too easy.
 
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10,102
is it well intended? ..... these countries are suddenly desperate to join, but not before ..... I think there is alot of poking the bear going on - someone wants trouble - and I dare say someone is the USA, but they don't want to do it on their own cos they don't have an explicit legit reason to

They would not joining NATO if their leaders did not think it was a good idea and beneficial in some way.

But I think, from what I understand, it’s very dangerous and makes them targets.

Because the invasion of the Ukraine was illegal and Russia didn’t care. It’s not playing the rules.

Like all countries, Turkey does good and bad things. This decision is a good thing.
 

Gronk

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64,686
They would not joining NATO if their leaders did not think it was a good idea and beneficial in some way.

But I think, from what I understand, it’s very dangerous and makes them targets.

Because the invasion of the Ukraine was illegal and Russia didn’t care. It’s not playing the rules.

Like all countries, Turkey does good and bad things. This decision is a good thing.
Those northern countries need to join because because of Nato's "an attack on one is an attack on all" policy.

You make zero sense why you wish to deny them protection.
 
Messages
10,102
Making pussy decisions right now because you don't want to upset the Russians achieves what ? You have to stand up to bullies mate, not tippy toe around them.

It needs to be demonstrated time and time again that they are the antagonists here and their charade over their bogus "military operation" has to end.

Geeze they threaten a nuke and everyone runs and hides. слишком легко / too easy.

You don’t have the best grasp of the subject.

The west made promises to Russia it didn’t keep. Russia gave us several warnings that it wanted a NATO free and neutral Ukraine and last year which we ignored.

Doesn’t excuse the illegal and unjustified invasion, but helps explain it.
 
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10,102
Those northern countries need to join because because of Nato's "an attack on one is an attack on all" policy.

You make zero sense why you wish to deny them protection.

Nonsense.

Russia has never threatened Sweden or Finland in recent times. It’s been a peaceful co-existence.

They are being reckless.

I’m not going to sleep tonight with the blood of ukkie civilians on my conscience.

You may not appreciate Russias power.

Peace now, let’s have a meaningful dialogue, make concessions and save lives. Especially for those who are innocent and don’t war a bar of this crap.
 
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Gronk

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64,686
Nonsense.

Russia has never threatened Sweden or Finland in recent times. It’s been a peaceful co-existence.

They are being reckless.

I’m not going to sleep tonight with the blood of ukkie civilians on my conscience.

You may not appreciate Russias power.

Peace now, let’s have a meaningful dialogue, make concessions and save lives. Especially for those who are innocent and don’t war a bar of this crap.
Unsure where you are getting your info from.

The Russians are mind f**king the baltics and have been for years


In any event Putin has already made a comment about them joining NATO.

Putin signals acceptance of Finland and Sweden joining Nato


This is all about Turkey being a bitch because Sweden won't be bullied and has values. They won't allow the extradition of people on trumped up political charges PLUS Turkey are pissed that Sweden stopped selling them arms when they invaded Syria.

 
Messages
10,102
Unsure where you are getting your info from.

The Russians are mind f**king the baltics and have been for years


In any event Putin has already made a comment about them joining NATO.

Putin signals acceptance of Finland and Sweden joining Nato


This is all about Turkey being a bitch because Sweden won't be bullied and has values. They won't allow the extradition of people on trumped up political charges PLUS Turkey are pissed that Sweden stopped selling them arms when they invaded Syria.


With respect, a few sorties over these states does not amount to an ambition to conquer and indeed many countries are engaged in these activities.

The Chinese Navy just visited close to our shores, where is the intent to invade?

I do not accept the proposition that the Russians would be pleased with Sweden or Finland joining NATO. I stand by my position that it simply heightens tensions.

I applaud the Turkish veto, even for reasons you have offered as i think the actual outcome is a good one.

Source:

983E4E65-5EDB-45F5-972E-08CC093A7967.jpeg

It seems to me that you view Turkey especially unfavourably, is this a consistent criticism or for the sake of our discussion?

I’m not picking a fight, not condemning even, just curious.

Cheers Gronky.
 
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Bandwagon

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Sorry I thought you were across things

Labor's housing policy whereby they will pay 30%-40% (existing/new properties) of the home price ..... with some restrictions on overall value of the property (details of which I assume will be flexible and vary over time and per location, but I believe and example was given as Sydney up to $950k)

Do you think this has a similar effect of boosting property prices? ..... I believe its not even restricted to first home buyers

It's not restricted, and yes it will. Any policy that increases buyers a potential capital will lift housing prices by a similar amount over time, we have decades of data to show this is fact.

But, the Labor policy isn't as straight forward as oh here's a bunch of money to spend, because the government retains an interest, so it'd be more like your parents loaning you a deposit I'd suppose.

In saying that, it would still add to demand, so without some kind of offset in supply it's gonna push up prices.

All these policies are just bandaids that kick the can down the road, so whilst short term they are helpful, medium to long term they only serve to make the problem worse.
 

Bandwagon

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It’s probably time we re-think the whole
residential property show here @Twizzle meister.

I’m talking shielding the market from speculation, limited foreign ownership, long term low interest govt loans and other solutions.

There’s no reason why the government can’t enter the construction business, provide nice homes and neighbourhoods in an decentralised and environmentally conscious way.

Death taxes on the very wealthy, corporates to pay their fair share and shift the burden to those who can afford it.

I just need Google etc behind me.

Ps re Rupert : Chomsky says there’s simply a shift in old media power to the newer internet czars.

He thinks the web hasn’t actually made the social changes people thought it might.

If the government is to do anything of value in this space, it is to build a shit ton more public housing.

The issue is that renting is just about as unattractive as it gets, expensive as f**k, and little to no security, so if you provide folks a genuine alternative to buying, like a decent place they can call home that doesn't f**k them financially and offers the ability to live there as long as you like and they'll take it up.

Done well and you take a huge chunk of demand out of the market, which in turn makes real estate a less attractive investment, and that means you slow price growth, making housing more affordable, without haveing to hand out a shit ton of coin that effectively only serves to prop up prices at any rate

The cost is f**k all, as the government holds an asset, but it'd take a major about face in thinking from all levels of government to make it happen, and some long term planning, and folks who own real estate would have to cop slower price growth on the chin.
 
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10,102
I don’t think the liberals have run the best campaign to be honest.

A lot of venom and negativity when I think Scomo is at his best and most compelling when he’s being positive.

The resort to cheap shots hasn’t helped the cause.

For the libs on the forum, I think Albo lacks a bit on the positive side as well. It’s a stern message, but you can tell hes not quite comfy.
 

Gary Gutful

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46,137
I don’t think the liberals have run the best campaign to be honest.

A lot of venom and negativity when I think Scomo is at his best and most compelling when he’s being positive.

The resort to cheap shots hasn’t helped the cause.

For the libs on the forum, I think Albo lacks a bit on the positive side as well. It’s a stern message, but you can tell hes not quite comfy.
When the evidence suggests that people are inclined to rule someone out and then vote for the lesser of two evils you can see why the strategy exists on both sides.
 
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When the evidence suggests that people are inclined to rule someone out and then vote for the lesser of two evils you can see why the strategy exists on both sides.

Well I think if the liberals had run a more positive campaign, it may have been received better, because the polling suggests the current model hasn’t helped.

I guess you could argue that had they run a more positive campaign, the polling could be a lot worse. We will never know in the same way we will never know if Labor could have managed the co vid thing better.

I am just giving my take on it.

Whoever is elected, a tough gig ahead.

I blame a lot of it on this useless war.
 

Bandwagon

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When the evidence suggests that people are inclined to rule someone out and then vote for the lesser of two evils you can see why the strategy exists on both sides.

Yeah, governments get retained or voted out here in Oz way more than an opposition gets voted in.

Alternative policy platforms, no matter how well thought out and presented are far less effective than pointing out all the things that suck about an incumbent, knowing enough folk also think they suck.

When was the last time an ambitious policy agenda from opposition was a winner? Whitlam with "it's time"?
 

Bandwagon

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Well I think if the liberals had run a more positive campaign, it may have been received better, because the polling suggests the current model hasn’t helped.

I guess you could argue that had they run a more positive campaign, the polling could be a lot worse. We will never know in the same way we will never know if Labor could have managed the co vid thing better.

I am just giving my take on it.

Whoever is elected, a tough gig ahead.

I blame a lot of it on this useless war.

The war's just a scapegoat, sure it's pushing up the price of energy, but as far as inflation and interest rates go, well you only have to look at the US to see they were well baked in well before the war. Here's the US inflation rate for the past five years.....

1652813385315.png


Here's ours....

1652813536528.png

Whilst our numbers are all lower, you can see it's pretty much the exact same trend. The war aint helping, but the cause is covid-supply chain- stimulus.

More money - supply trailing demand = inflation. More inflation = higher interest rates. Obviously we've only just moved on that front, but it was pretty obvious 12 months ago to any merkin paying attention that inflation was a thing, the only debate was whether it was a temporary blip, or if it was set in ( feeding on it's self as it can )
 

Gronk

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64,686
It seems to me that you view Turkey especially unfavourably, is this a consistent criticism or for the sake of our discussion?
Why because they have beef with the nordic countries and are being bitchy in their blocking of NATO inclusion ?

Petty politics does not belong in the conversation that involves an unhinged superpower randomly threatening to nuke anyone who frustrates their brutal invasion of a border country.

Hey, maybe there’s more to it and it runs deeper than petty politics? Let’s examine that.

So when Sweden stopped selling arms to Turkey after they invaded Syria, who did they turn to ? I wonder who it is and if they owe some allegiance?


 
Messages
10,102
The war's just a scapegoat, sure it's pushing up the price of energy, but as far as inflation and interest rates go, well you only have to look at the US to see they were well baked in well before the war. Here's the US inflation rate for the past five years.....

View attachment 61706


Here's ours....

View attachment 61707

Whilst our numbers are all lower, you can see it's pretty much the exact same trend. The war aint helping, but the cause is covid-supply chain- stimulus.

More money - supply trailing demand = inflation. More inflation = higher interest rates. Obviously we've only just moved on that front, but it was pretty obvious 12 months ago to any merkin paying attention that inflation was a thing, the only debate was whether it was a temporary blip, or if it was set in ( feeding on it's self as it can )

I appreciate the explanation and am persuaded.

Thanks.
 

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