OT: Current Affairs and Politics

[hineyrulz]

Personally, I would be happy that people who want to commit war crimes decide not to join the armed forces and they would be stronger with members who are there to do the right thing

Yeah it’s all nice and easy in your little world from the safety of your nice safe lounge chair. The world is a different place and even more a warzone when you could have a bullet on your name on it any time. It’s not like these blokes are working in a library. This case could have major implications for the ADF and not all of them good. As I said I’m not going to judge anybody because until you are in a situation like all these blokes are in I don’t think it’s so easy just to judge someone.

 

[bazza]

Yeah it’s all nice and easy in your little world from the safety of your nice safe lounge chair. The world is a different place and even more a warzone when you could have a bullet on your name on it any time. It’s not like these blokes are working in a library. This case could have major implications for the ADF and not all of them good. As I said I’m not going to judge anybody because until you are in a situation like all these blokes are in I don’t think it’s so easy just to judge someone.

seems like the members of the defence force that spoke out about Ben Roberts-Smith's actions didn't do the same stuff he did and didn't appear to think it was right despite also not being in the safety of their lounge chair

 

[T.S Quint]

Yeah it’s all nice and easy in your little world from the safety of your nice safe lounge chair. The world is a different place and even more a warzone when you could have a bullet on your name on it any time. It’s not like these blokes are working in a library. This case could have major implications for the ADF and not all of them good. As I said I’m not going to judge anybody because until you are in a situation like all these blokes are in I don’t think it’s so easy just to judge someone.

What would be some of the implications for the ADF that are not good?

And yeah, I am definitely going to judge someone who has done the awful thing he has been proven to have done. I don't care where he is, that's not what he was trained for.

 

[hineyrulz]

What would be some of the implications for the ADF that are not good?

And yeah, I am definitely going to judge someone who has done the awful thing he has been proven to have done. I don't care where he is, that's not what he was trained for.

Awesome good for you, we’ll have people making decisions on our armed forces who have never stepped foot in a war zone and have no idea what these soldiers go through on a daily basis. The army will be full of safe spaces and good intentions. As I said good luck getting people to enlist. This case wasn’t just about one bad egg.

 

[Incorrect]

What would be some of the implications for the ADF that are not good?

And yeah, I am definitely going to judge someone who has done the awful thing he has been proven to have done. I don't care where he is, that's not what he was trained for.

You can't handle the truth

 

[T.S Quint]

Awesome good for you, we’ll have people making decisions on our armed forces who have never stepped foot in a war zone and have no idea what these soldiers go through on a daily basis.

We already have people making decsions about our armed forces who have never stepped foot in a war zone. How many of our Prime Ministers or Ministers of Defence have been in battle?
Whatever the soldiers go through on a daily basis does not excuse what BRS has done. I'm sure youre not trying to make excuses for him, but it certainly seems that way.

The army will be full of safe spaces and good intentions. As I said good luck getting people to enlist. This case wasn’t just about one bad egg.

I don't think good intentions are a bad thing. Why on earth would they be considered so in your mind.
And yeah, this case WAS about one egg. HE was the one who took the newspapers to court to sue them for defamation. He didn't have to do that, but now that he has it has come to light that he really has done the awful things he was said to have done.

In terms of what this means for the DF at large now, maybe it's not a bad thing that they will be more higly scrutinised and held to a higher standard. There are rules and laws that must be adhered to. Just because you've been assigned as a soldier and given a gun does not give you the right to do whatever the f**k you want.

 

[Gronk]

The Australian War Memorial chair, Kim Beazley, said on Friday that the federal court ruling involved “a civil legal case” and was “one step in a longer process”.

“Collection items relating to Ben Roberts-Smith VC MG, including his uniform, equipment, medals and associated art works, are on display in the memorial’s galleries,” he said in a statement on behalf of the Australian War Memorial council.

“We are considering carefully the additional content and context to be included in these displays.

“The memorial acknowledges Afghanistan veterans and their families who may be affected at this time.”

Beazley, a former Labor leader and defence minister, said the memorial “assists in remembering, interpreting and understanding Australia’s experience of war and its enduring impact”.

He said that included “the causes, conduct and consequences of war”.

In a landmark defamation case ruling on Thursday, Justice Anthony Besanko found that, on the balance of probabilities, Roberts-Smith kicked a handcuffed prisoner off a cliff in Darwan in 2012 before ordering a subordinate Australian soldier to shoot the injured man dead.

Besanko also found that in 2009 Roberts-Smith ordered the execution of an elderly man found hiding in a tunnel in a bombed-out compound codenamed “Whiskey 108”, as well as murdering a disabled man with a prosthetic leg during the same mission, using a light machine gun.

Ben Roberts-Smith: Australian War Memorial to overhaul displays involving ex-soldier

Kim Beazley says AWM acknowledges gravity of defamation decision amid calls to remove exhibits

www.theguardian.com

 

[the phantom menace]

who would want to go overseas to these countries and go through all the mental damage that these people are subject to and defend themselves only to find out when you come home you get charged with murder or war crimes for defending yourself

To be fair, I think that's the opposite of what the court that dismissed his claim of defamation is saying occurred? That is, the actions of concern (as reported and dealt with in his case) were not about defending himself.

I'm not defending Roberts as I don't know much about the incident/s but this is a bad situation for our armed services

It is a bad situation for how some individuals in our armed services appear to have allegedly conducted themselves, in relation to the incidents dealt with in the reports and court ruling.

 

[the phantom menace]

I would say the one thing to learn is dont be on some misguided high horse that our armed services are perfect and never overstep and do any wrong. Dont believe all the propaganda that we are angels. Its a shit situation and ours do shit too.

That's very true.

And there's been some good articles in the last day showing how Australia has a habit to report and focus on only our good deeds and completely ignore the inappropriate. It's how we got a culture when BR-S thought he was justified in bringing (and presumably thought he had a chance of winning) a defamation case - when the evidence raised looked clearly the opposite.

 

[the phantom menace]

Are any of these family and friends that have done tours war criminals who have beaten and killed unarmed prisoners? KIlled civilians?

Because this is what that piece of shit has been doing over there.

Of course I have no idea what it's like being a soldier going into a war zone, but there are a huge number of people who have. How many of them do you reckon think it's ok to shoot a prisoner in handcuffs?

Quoted for truth.

Not every armed forces officer has done the things that BR-S has been alleged to, and has now failed in his own defamation case disputing reports of those allegations.

I hope at least some/the quiet majority of those who serve/have served find what BR-S is alleged to have done, and the culture in which that is seen as ok, as repulsive as most of the Australian civilian public find it to be.

 

[the phantom menace]

My assumption is that the other SAS members who spoke out about him didn't do those things

Yes, thank goodness for whistleblowers that can take the risk to speak out about a wayward organisational culture.

 

[the phantom menace]

If he’s done the wrong thing he should be punished, that’s up to the army to decide not some trial by media. As Twiz had said quite a few people may rethink twice joining the armed forces. Weakening our armed forces can’t be a good thing there was more to this than one bloke.

Well it's not just up to the army to decide. And nor should it be imo. There are rules of engagement in war zones, and consequences if you are found to have broken them (i.e. committed a war crime).

We have a court system which tries such war crimes. BR-S hasn't received any criminal charges at this stage - but he chose to bring this on himself by launching a costly (and failed) civil defamation case against reports of what now appear confirmed to be illegal actions he (previously unnamed in said reports) undertook while serving.

If merkins no longer want to join or serve in the army because they have to follow some rules during war, or think there shouldn't be consequences (including reporting) for illegal actions they take during a war... then those merkins can go and work on a building site instead, and that'll be one silver lining out of this horrid BR-S instigated mess.

 

[the phantom menace]

It just gets worse for BR-S (and for Defence Force) with this revelation of this 2011 cover-up.

https://www.news.com.au/national/courts-law/they-knew-ben-robertssmith-photo-resurfaces-exposing-chilling-detail-in-adf-coverup/news-story/7920848fbfd47c1f77d42adfa359112a

Australia Defence Association executive director Neil James told the newspaper at the time that displaying the symbol was “wrong morally” and “counter-productive”.

Mr James said it was “simply unprofessional” and reflected the poor cultural standards unearthed in the Brereton inquiry – a four-year investigation that into the conduct of special forces soldiers.

The inquiry’s report, released in 2020, found credible evidence of 39 unlawful killings of Afghan civilians or prisoners by unnamed Australian soldiers. It also raised concerns about a “warrior culture” within Australia’s special forces based on a “a misplaced focus on prestige, status and power”.

Guy seems like a bigoted nutjob - no wonder he thought he could do no wrong launching his failed defamation case.

 

[Gary Gutful]

I'm torn.

I'm glad others serve our country because I am too much of a mincer to do it. But, I'm appalled at what has allegedly occurred.

 

[T.S Quint]

I'm torn.

I'm glad others serve our country because I am too much of a mincer to do it. But, I'm appalled at what has allegedly occurred.

Doesn't sound like you're torn. Just sounds like you're a regular person.

 

[Bandwagon]

I'm torn.

I'm glad others serve our country because I am too much of a mincer to do it. But, I'm appalled at what has allegedly occurred.

It's actually pretty simple.

He's a shit merkin, and should spend the rest of his life in prison

Where it becomes difficult is our penchant to elevate our service people to a point where they are beyond reproach, and genuine criticism is considered anathema to our values.

merkins want to take a good hard look at the facts presented in this case before getting on their f**king high horse and reflexively defending actions that are beyond appalling.

If you think this merkin's been hard done by, you've rocks in your f**king head. It's the words of his contemporaries that damn him, not some onlooker or bystander, merkins that served with him.

f**k him, he's a disgrace. And he's brought disgrace upon both our defence forces and the country they are here to serve. He can rot in hell.

 

[the phantom menace]

An opinion piece - potentially controversial (likely by design) - but illustrates the problems ahead for the Australian Defence Forces if leadership and those currently serving don't learn from this decision and fail to switch allegiance from celebrating the culture in which BR-S thrived and championed, to publically and actively acting against it.

As the Ben Roberts-Smith case proves, it’s time for Australia to abandon our farcical myths of Anzac | Paul Daley

Good history – like good journalism and justice – has fact as its bedrock

www.theguardian.com

 

[Gronk]

Three soldiers on steroids given marching orders

MORE Australian soldiers have been sent home in disgrace from Afghanistan after being caught using drugs.

www.smh.com.au

Ben Roberts-Smith - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[the phantom menace]

More details of this merkin's activities are coming out and being reported, now that our investigative journalists/media aren't being silenced by failed expensive legal action available only to the priviliged classes.

‘Stick to the code’: New tapes reveal Ben Roberts-Smith’s campaign to silence soldiers

Police have submitted fresh evidence against the now-disgraced war hero as a number of those closest to him have now provided proof of his attempts to cover up his murders in Afghanistan.

www.smh.com.au

Roberts-Smith also lashed out at soldiers breaking the SAS code of silence.

“A few people [in the SAS] had done what we don’t do and that’s talk out of school,” Roberts-Smith is heard to say. “It’s real simple. I stick to the f---ing code mate, 100 per cent, and I have.

“So all the shit that’s going on, I’m still probably the only c--- that hasn’t f---ing spoken. I’d like it all to be f---ing gone away. All these people talking are just doing more damage to the unit [the SAS]. And have done damage to the unit. And continue to do damage to the unit and it’s all very disheartening to be frank, ’cos nothing’s going to f---ing change at my end.”

 

[the phantom menace]

Meanwhile ICAC have confirmed these will be released by the end of the quarter (i.e. end June)....

Icac will release findings about Gladys Berejiklian on Thursday. What was the inquiry about and what could happen next?

The former premier has long denied any wrongdoing. As the NSW corruption watchdog prepares to hand down its report, we look back at how we got here

www.theguardian.com