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OT: US Election

SpaceMonkey

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40,353
Expect the Dems to mercilessly start throwing all those stones the Republicans were chucking at them back at the Trump glasshouse. Which team has the senile old fart now?
 

sup42

Juniors
Messages
2,465
Expect the Dems to mercilessly start throwing all those stones the Republicans were chucking at them back at the Trump glasshouse. Which team has the senile old fart now?
We didn't have to wait for it.
Harris went straight to the throat calling out Trump as a predator, a liable Sexual abuser and a criminal. The winds have changed. Accommodating Joe is gone. Harris will need the good workers at the Secret Service on her detail. She will be the most hated MAGA target ever.

Tis interesting to see Harris breaking fundraising records in the first twenty four hours.
Money talks in America, money is their god. Money means status, worth, and an endorsement of your right to hold power in their culture.
The endorsements from the Parties big guns come rolling in when the cash is flowing (Clintons aside who stood for her early) Pelosi held back a click till this morning when the $$$ spoke.

The Obama's are too smart to be seen as black folks automatically backing her and giving the appearance of a coronation.
 

Meth

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Harris is too radical for my taste and hasn’t demonstrated any competency in her handing of the border. She is renowned for missteps AND most crucially, is tied to Biden in terms of reputation.

I honestly think any smart Democrat apart from Harris would see this as a race to pass on. For Harris, it’s her only shot.

I think it’s going to be a landslide
 

Meth

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The debate will be interesting though. Harris is a prosecutor of note and Trump has the things to answer for. Biden couldn’t get the debate focussed on that. Maybe Harris can.
 

SpaceMonkey

Immortal
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40,353
“Harris too radical” in what way? I don’t think any of the Democrats who’re anywhere positions of power are at all radical, they’re all tame centrist types.
People like Bernie and AOC are kept on the sidelines there.
 

sup42

Juniors
Messages
2,465
“Harris too radical” in what way? I don’t think any of the Democrats who’re anywhere positions of power are at all radical, they’re all tame centrist types.
People like Bernie and AOC are kept on the sidelines there.
There is always patter about why a woman in a run for a top roll is inadequate, I wager that if you put forward the perfect woman, someone spotless with an an impeccable record, that the misogynists would find something wrong with her temperament, her appearance, her 'otherness' from the traditional male stereo type of strength and power.

The thing about Harris is that the rhetoric has very little substance, the truth is that none of us know who she is, what she really stands for, how capable she is. The big threat to the MAGA crowd and the 'any man would be better thinkers'....is that a Presidential Race gives Harris the spotlight to show the world who she is and to paint a contrast against the alternate. My god we saw that yesterday with the calling out the obscenity that is Trumps sexual offences and his all round unsuitability to lead the country.

Harris is already pulling ahead in a couple of polls (I realise polls are rubbish) the important thing being the messaging, the inference that she cannot win because of polls is being addressed.

Where you think the race sits if you are American depends on your bubble, from the outside I think MAGA would be stupid not to see a Sea change in the last two days. Ignoring the polls, there is no doubt that the Harris ticket as generated crazy momentum and excitement in the block that hate Trump yet had no stomach for Biden.

The assumption that Harris was more disliked than Biden and Trump is looking like Web talk with no substance, Harris has powerful blocks of voters she can reach that Trump and Vance (Vance is an appalling choice he called Trump Hitler).

Harris can reach the Youth.
The Female Vote.
The Men who hate Trump vote.
The people who place the constitution and democracy above race politics.
And she also looks capable of consolidating the fractured Democratic base and her pick of VP will likely be targeted at ensuring the Dem voters feel there is a balance.


What those groups need is to see a stable alternative, and Harris to me looks formidable.

In our own country, Adern became a schemer who was auditioning for the top UN job so she could oversee the new far left world order. She was also an agent for Black Rock. And her teeth showed that she like Helen Clarks jaw line was somehow an inferior human being.

You have to laugh. Frankly a lot of men hate women. According to most Hillary was a bigger crook than Trump.....let that sink in.
 
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JJ

Immortal
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32,444
Recommend watching Bryson Dechambeau and Trump playing golf. First Trump is legit good, second away from the political schtick he’s less orange, and less unlikeable. They played off the front tees, scramble. But Trump was really quite good
 

SpaceMonkey

Immortal
Messages
40,353
Recommend watching Bryson Dechambeau and Trump playing golf. First Trump is legit good, second away from the political schtick he’s less orange, and less unlikeable. They played off the front tees, scramble. But Trump was really quite good
I’m sure he’s a competent golfer, you’d expect him to be given how much he plays. Just not as good as he claims to be.
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,444
I’m sure he’s a competent golfer, you’d expect him to be given how much he plays. Just not as good as he claims to be.
He pretty much is as good as he claims to be…. Looked like a low single digit guy, and didn’t have the same political pantomime going on…. Less of an arsehole in that context than expected, and he’s never shy about being an arsehole… interesting anyway, I enjoy Bryson’s channel
 

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
35,724
“Harris too radical” in what way? I don’t think any of the Democrats who’re anywhere positions of power are at all radical, they’re all tame centrist types.
People like Bernie and AOC are kept on the sidelines there.

Yeah, look, this prompted me to take a closer look. It seems as if her radicality is somewhat speculative from the right. Far left types call her too moderate. Honestly, I don’t know and I’ve probably done as much reading as I care to seeking to find out.

It seems to me that I disagree with her about the stuff that I normally disagree with the left wing politicians about these days. (And I disagree with Trump about stuff that I normally disagree with the right wing politicians about, plus, you know, Trump)

I think she hasn’t demonstrated herself to be capable in this administration. The border is a mess. She is tarnished with Biden’s smell. I don’t see her as being able to win.
 

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
35,724
There is always patter about why a woman in a run for a top roll is inadequate, I wager that if you put forward the perfect woman, someone spotless with an an impeccable record, that the misogynists would find something wrong with her temperament, her appearance, her 'otherness' from the traditional male stereo type of strength and power.

The thing about Harris is that the rhetoric has very little substance, the truth is that none of us know who she is, what she really stands for, how capable she is. The big threat to the MAGA crowd and the 'any man would be better thinkers'....is that a Presidential Race gives Harris the spotlight to show the world who she is and to paint a contrast against the alternate. My god we saw that yesterday with the calling out the obscenity that is Trumps sexual offences and his all round unsuitability to lead the country.

Harris is already pulling ahead in a couple of polls (I realise polls are rubbish) the important thing being the messaging, the inference that she cannot win because of polls is being addressed.

Where you think the race sits if you are American depends on your bubble, from the outside I think MAGA would be stupid not to see a Sea change in the last two days. Ignoring the polls, there is no doubt that the Harris ticket as generated crazy momentum and excitement in the block that hate Trump yet had no stomach for Biden.

The assumption that Harris was more disliked than Biden and Trump is looking like Web talk with no substance, Harris has powerful blocks of voters she can reach that Trump and Vance (Vance is an appalling choice he called Trump Hitler).

Harris can reach the Youth.
The Female Vote.
The Men who hate Trump vote.
The people who place the constitution and democracy above race politics.
And she also looks capable of consolidating the fractured Democratic base and her pick of VP will likely be targeted at ensuring the Dem voters feel there is a balance.


What those groups need is to see a stable alternative, and Harris to me looks formidable.

In our own country, Adern became a schemer who was auditioning for the top UN job so she could oversee the new far left world order. She was also an agent for Black Rock. And her teeth showed that she like Helen Clarks jaw line was somehow an inferior human being.

You have to laugh. Frankly a lot of men hate women. According to most Hillary was a bigger crook than Trump.....let that sink in.

You quoted a post that was a question to me, so I have to ask- are you insinuating that I don’t rate Harris because she’s a woman?
 

Meth

Moderator
Staff member
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35,724
When you boil down my thesis in this thread, it’s this- it’s a choice between the corrupt and the incompetent. That’s infuriating, because all the Dems needed to do was out forward a competent candidate in good time for the public to develop some confidence in them. The Rebublicans haven’t really won this. The Democrats have lost it.
 

sup42

Juniors
Messages
2,465
You quoted a post that was a question to me, so I have to ask- are you insinuating that I don’t rate Harris because she’s a woman?
No definitely not and if I thought that I would have quoted you directly (in the opening of my opinion I thought I had qualified it by stating some examples of sexism-none of which apply to anything I have read from you, seems I should have been clearer about that).

You are a balanced poster and not some misogynist or twisted about Harris in the way say I am over Trump (I honestly have hatred for the guy). I should have made that clear I wasn't speaking to you and drawn a distinction between a critical opinion about Harris and the anti women slurs you read constantly posted by far right or extreme left nut bars.
In fact the voice you bring that say's the Democrats are sunk is what people like me need to hear. I would be the first to admit my opinions are entirely 100% from an emotional desperation to see Donald Trump fail. I do keep some perspective, not as much as yourself, but I did not think Biden was up for it. I thought he was terrible (his age and impediments mostly and he is bland and boring).

And my bias will always see me jump on the bandwagon and hope as much as anything that the alternative to Trump wins. I would back Banana vs Trump.

It is funny, I was never really interested in US politics, the only time I paid any heed was when Reagan started to lose it and the world was scared he would Nuke Russia. The Bush wars were interesting from afar, Junior Bush and his Crusade after 911. I never hated any of those strongly right wing Republican figures probably because I was raised like a lot of Kiwis with the dogma that America are the good guys.

When the yanks picked Trump I thought it was appalling, but a bit of a laugh. That all changed after Charlottesville and went into overdrive with Covid and to top it off high treason. I started disliking America because of Trump, Ironically I have to remind myself I am descended from prominent American settlers (John Alden and Priscilla Mullins my x times great great great Grandparents were on the Mayflower and are quite well known by American historians as founding pilgrims).
 
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Meth

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
35,724
No definitely not and if I thought that I would have quoted you directly (in the opening of my opinion I thought I had qualified it by stating some examples of sexism-none of which apply to anything I have read from you, seems I should have been clearer about that).

You are a balanced poster and not some misogynist or twisted about Harris in the way say I am over Trump (I honestly have hatred for the guy). I should have made that clear I wasn't speaking to you and drawn a distinction between an opinion about Harris and the anti women slurs you read constantly posted by far right or extreme left nut bars.
In fact the voice you bring that say's the Democrats are sunk is what people like me need to hear. I would be the first to admit my opinions are entirely 100% from an emotional desperation to see Donald Trump fail. I do keep some perspective, not as much as yourself, but I did not think Biden was up for it. I thought he was terrible (his age and impediments mostly and he is bland and boring).

And my bias will always see me jump on the bandwagon and hope as much as anything that the alternative to Trump wins. I would back Banana vs Trump.

It is funny, I was never really interested in US politics, the only time I paid any heed was when Reagan started to lose it and the world was scared he would Nuke Russia. The Bush wars were interesting from afar, Junior Bush and his Crusade after 911. I never hated any of those strongly right wing Republican figures probably because I was raised like a lot of Kiwis with the dogma that America are the good guys.

When the yanks picked Trump I thought it was appalling, but a bit of a laugh. That all changed after Charlottesville and went into overdrive with Covid and to top it off high treason. I started disliking America because of Trump, Ironically I have to remind myself I am descended from prominent American settlers (John Alden and Priscilla Mullins my x times great great great Grandparents were on the Mayflower and are quite famous in American historical genealogy circles as founding pilgrims).

thanks mate
 

sup42

Juniors
Messages
2,465
To reinforce my point about the isms against Kamala (sexism Racism etc) you have to laugh at the GOP leadership issuing a request for its members to stop the racists targeting of her.
 
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sup42

Juniors
Messages
2,465
I thought Bidens speech in conceding was impressive, I know they use speech writers but the bulk of that speech was written by Biden, it has his finger prints on it, right down to repeating himself to make a point.

That is the only time i have heard Biden talk and been engaged with it (admittedly I only watched the highlights I really have never taken to Bidens speech delivery, I see that as his big weakness as a leader, even before age became a factor).

I am also surprised to learn that Harris does not use a teleprompter. In the last few days she has shown herself to be a formidable speech maker. As someone who was always asked to make big speeches through school, work, University, I have to say that Harris is a machine (to be expected given her whole life was geared to making argument).

As JD Vance tries to impersonate Trump with his speeches (big mistake) to be accepted by MAGA you see him floundering because the MAGA crowd do not accept him. People like the MAGA group have long memories, they are set in their ways, they do not forget that Vance called their great leader Hitler, they do not forget he called him a trucking idiot.

So to see Vance try to wax lyrical about Mountain Dew being racist in the way Trump would, the make sht up style Trump has, the Shark type speech, the electricity nonsense, the Janola injections, the late Hannibal lecter ramblings.....to see Vance make an overt and see through attempt to be Trump....is the wrong play by Vance. No MAGA laughter at his punch line, no cult thunderous applause, rather awkward polite clapping by about ten people out of thousands.

Vance will be wondering why it is not working, he even threw in a "I love you guys" totally Trump play book comment, and still no one bought it. Some of those people who he is talking to will have his photo in their man caves on a dart board as a traitor to Hier Trump.

So why did Trump pick him?

The Psychology of Psychopathy goes like this, the head Psychopath picks an alter that is no threat to them. Someone who they know is standing on weak ground with the Psycopaths cult following before they are chosen. Someone who they have battled with in the past and shown they are the Alpha by humiliating and humbling their opponent into becoming a supplicant.

Pretty much Caesars play book, he is Vercingetorix, the conquered Gaul who Caesar kept alive and displayed to the Roman populace until it was time for him to be put to death.

Vance will not last the campaign if the polls are down on Trump. Trump due to his Psychopathic make up needs a scape goat. Like Pence. Vance will be blamed when things are not going well and kicked to the curb. Trump will be watching the new blood effect of Kamala replacing Biden and counting the days to pull the trigger on Vance to make the news cycle and get clicks. That will be the fall back position. If polling is good, Trump will keep him on to ensure he is not running with a guy like Pence who had some albeit small scruples certifying a legitimate election result.
 
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sup42

Juniors
Messages
2,465
To expand on my calling Trump a Psychopath, it is a layered and complex issue to calling a public figure who displays all of the checks on the Psychopathic inventory as a Psychopath without having the qualification to make diagnosis and without having seen him in private outside the public image that is Trump.

In a treatment setting you get to know the person rather than the public image, which is why there is this proviso that you cannot diagnose people over the internet or the Telly based off the image they project in media.

However, Psychopathy was my specialty and Forensic Psychopathy (Psychopaths who commit crimes) paid my wages for decades.

That aside, Donald Trump was so overt in his psychopathic traits that twenty six preeminent American Psychiatrists broke the rule and diagnosed him as a Psychopath. This includes members who were forensic Psychiatrist who specialize in serial killers and the like and are heavy weights in the mental health industry. Bear in mind these people live by a dogma that say's they have a responsibility to not stigmatize people suffering from the disorder. So it was unprecedented for mental health professionals who protect the identity and privacy of people who cut off women's heads and put them in the oven to speak out about Trumps disorder.

  • Item 1: Glibness/superficial charm
  • Item 2: Grandiose sense of self-worth
  • Item 3: Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
  • Item 4: Pathological lying
  • Item 5: Conning/manipulative[12]
  • Item 6: Lack of remorse or guilt
  • Item 7: Shallow affect
  • Item 8: Callous/lack of empathy
  • Item 9: Parasitic lifestyle
  • Item 10: Poor behavioral controls
  • Item 11: Promiscuous sexual behavior
  • Item 12: Early behavior problems
  • Item 13: Lack of realistic, long-term goals
  • Item 14: Impulsivity
  • Item 15: Irresponsibility
  • Item 16: Failure to accept responsibility for own actions
  • Item 17: Many short-term marital relationships
  • Item 18: Juvenile delinquency
  • Item 19: Revocation of conditional release
  • Item 20: Criminal versatility
As you can see from Robert Hares Psychopathic Inventory Trump scores in the 90 percentile which means he is an A grade Psychopath, not a garden variety psychopath, Trump displays the signs of the disorder on a continuum as having its most severe rating.

Robert Hare is the Canadian Forensic Psychiatrist (Forensic just means criminal, in the fashion of Mind Hunter, he is a profiler of the highest caliber and the greatest shrink on Psycopaths in the world).

Trumps own niece who is a registered Psychologist and well placed to rate her uncle has declared he is an extreme psychopath.

Given my background of working with murderers, cannibals, Gang leaders, serial rapists etc, when Trump came along I just switched off because he was a boring insect to me a transparent psychopath who was too much like watching work. My weakness was that I assumed the world would see through him and be repulsed by his mental condition.

Trump is evil and I say that from a mental health perspective. In Mental health the great debate has always been nature vs nurture, genes versus upbringing, are bad people born mad or created that way.

On one side you had mental health liberal thinkers who believed in nurture, that they were born normal and created, on the other side you had experts who argued that evil is in the dna and is born not made.

The interesting thing after centuries of mental health is that this argument in the modern era was split fifty fifty between experts.

Robert Hare the God father of Psychopathy argued Psychopaths are born evil and upbringing can either make them worse (to the point of becoming women hating serial killers) or upbringing can sooth them to maybe only becoming lying and cheating types who do well in spheres like politics, used cars salesmen and law, and all the other conman professions where you need liars.

BTW the way the advent of technology, MIR scanning and other imaging techniques has since proved that Psychopaths like Trumps brains are different and therefore Robert Hare was right, Psychopaths are born and not made, they can only be made worse.
 

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