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Our Young Guns v Others

Smacka

Juniors
Messages
107
Are our Young Guns as good as what we have been told ?
19 & 20 year old players are taking longer to develop in the modern game. They are continually pushed physically to the point of strain (overtrained) , this leads to a cycle of injury - rehabilitation - loss of confidence / matchplay. This can overwhelm many young men particularly when "the game" is their chosen field of employment : they have no other outlet. Their dreams / goals can be shattered before they really get started.
Just maybe Hook has his finger on the pulse with our up & comers. Many on this Forum have the belief they should be permanent fixtures in First Grade. Amone is slowly coming along , Ramsey has taken 2 seasons to get to the level He's now at.
The Rorters have 2 that have done quite well - Walker , Suuali ; the Broncos are unearthing some good talent & the other Clubs have their share of Players with "potential". The difference is those young guys are blooded with seasoned top-line Players to guide them (& we have few of those available).
In my time I was fortunate to play with & against some excellent young Players . Only a few of those (e.g. S.Ella , E. Grothe , B.Kenny , G.Cox , P.Sterling , G.Alexander , W.Pearce , G. Wynn & B.Elias) really went on to cement a career in the game. We were also favoured to be tutored by coaches that really knew their stuff - J.Gibson , R.Masters , W.Ryan , B.Smith - & were looked after off-field by Statesmen such as Keith Barnes & Keith Gittoes : great Rugby League Men.
 

Dragon David

Bench
Messages
4,618
Here is an article from Foxsports News about what Kevvie Walters is saying about the reason why he thinks the Broncos will win a premiership soon. The Broncos have brought in a lot of their youth in the past couple of years and the fruits are now showing with several of the players maturing and getting 50 -100 games under their belt to know what they have to do in playing in the NRL.

 

dannyt

Coach
Messages
11,477
Here is an article from Foxsports News about what Kevvie Walters is saying about the reason why he thinks the Broncos will win a premiership soon. The Broncos have brought in a lot of their youth in the past couple of years and the fruits are now showing with several of the players maturing and getting 50 -100 games under their belt to know what they have to do in playing in the NRL.

So go with youth for some short-term pain so that they become experienced at the time, and then experience the benefits of long-term gain?

Hmmm... We seem to have decided on short and long term pain.
 

justadragon

Juniors
Messages
754
Are our Young Guns as good as what we have been told ?
19 & 20 year old players are taking longer to develop in the modern game. They are continually pushed physically to the point of strain (overtrained) , this leads to a cycle of injury - rehabilitation - loss of confidence / matchplay. This can overwhelm many young men particularly when "the game" is their chosen field of employment : they have no other outlet. Their dreams / goals can be shattered before they really get started.
Just maybe Hook has his finger on the pulse with our up & comers. Many on this Forum have the belief they should be permanent fixtures in First Grade. Amone is slowly coming along , Ramsey has taken 2 seasons to get to the level He's now at.
The Rorters have 2 that have done quite well - Walker , Suuali ; the Broncos are unearthing some good talent & the other Clubs have their share of Players with "potential". The difference is those young guys are blooded with seasoned top-line Players to guide them (& we have few of those available).
In my time I was fortunate to play with & against some excellent young Players . Only a few of those (e.g. S.Ella , E. Grothe , B.Kenny , G.Cox , P.Sterling , G.Alexander , W.Pearce , G. Wynn & B.Elias) really went on to cement a career in the game. We were also favoured to be tutored by coaches that really knew their stuff - J.Gibson , R.Masters , W.Ryan , B.Smith - & were looked after off-field by Statesmen such as Keith Barnes & Keith Gittoes : great Rugby League Men.
I think a lot depends on how the club is going as a whole, take for instance the penrith juniors, roosters and now Broncos, it certainly helps juniors when they are not being put under pressure to win games because the team is not performing. What we expect the likes of sullivan amone sloan to do compared to say what penrith would expect, just slot in seamlessly and do your job. Look at what happened to Luke Brooks, he was the new big thing and the pressure the Tigers put him under has messed with his head for the last 10 years, whats he worth now ?? Its not a easy process to achieve but a club that has got its pathways act together seems to always be the more successful club.
 

dannyt

Coach
Messages
11,477
I think a lot depends on how the club is going as a whole, take for instance the penrith juniors, roosters and now Broncos, it certainly helps juniors when they are not being put under pressure to win games because the team is not performing. What we expect the likes of sullivan amone sloan to do compared to say what penrith would expect, just slot in seamlessly and do your job. Look at what happened to Luke Brooks, he was the new big thing and the pressure the Tigers put him under has messed with his head for the last 10 years, whats he worth now ?? Its not a easy process to achieve but a club that has got its pathways act together seems to always be the more successful club.
Brooks is a good example, but he did have a potentially exceptional pathway in front of him. Benji Marshall, Robbie Farah, and young guns Tedesco, JAC, Fifita, and Moses, with Papenuyzen coming through. Who did I miss?

The WT really had the opportunity of having an amazing run, but either couldn't keep their players or those making the decisions didn't know what they were doing. I hope the same doesn't happen to us.
 

justadragon

Juniors
Messages
754
Brooks is a good example, but he did have a potentially exceptional pathway in front of him. Benji Marshall, Robbie Farah, and young guns Tedesco, JAC, Fifita, and Moses, with Papenuyzen coming through. Who did I miss?

The WT really had the opportunity of having an amazing run, but either couldn't keep their players or those making the decisions didn't know what they were doing. I hope the same doesn't happen to us.
yep good point dannyt, he did have all the others around him until they got cherry picked by other clubs, the other player may have been woods, but still it shows that if you dont have your pathways spot on with the right people you are going to be in a world of hurt.
 

denis preston

First Grade
Messages
7,105
Couple of my thoughts about how our young guns played yesterday.
* Matt Feagi is an excellent footballer but way too slow for wing.
* Amone did nothing and whilst I want him in our future plans I hope we don't throw the bank at him to keep him. This is on the basis that he has provided a road block for Bud to play the halves ( I know he has been injured ) who I believe make a far better fist of 6 if chosen, for one thing he has pace that would second guess defences. Amone a future lock appeals.
* Sloan had no real opportunities in his cameo but was Dufty like in getting there late on the last Cowboy try. IMO he has to play wing.

Really think the current Hunt/ Amone contract negotiations could be pivotable in the clubs future. The money outlaid if too much could be better spent to straighten the side in other positions so time will tell.
 

Unsainty79

Juniors
Messages
125
It's much easier as a young player to come through when you've got quality around you like at Penrith, Melbourne, Chooks etc.

Feagai x 2, Sullivan, Amone, Ramsey and Sloan are all undeniably talented. What we've seen with Ramsey is that it takes a while to become a fully fledged first-grader, though. I must admit Sloan and Amone probably came into first grade a year too earlier, especially considering they hadn't played for some time.

I am not too harsh on hook with his development of the young guys given that Bud has had injuries and Sloan has looked a little out of depth at time. My issue is that some of the experienced players have let us down so badly this year.

Throwing Sloan on when the game was lost was pretty poor, though.
 

dannyt

Coach
Messages
11,477
It's much easier as a young player to come through when you've got quality around you like at Penrith, Melbourne, Chooks etc.

Feagai x 2, Sullivan, Amone, Ramsey and Sloan are all undeniably talented. What we've seen with Ramsey is that it takes a while to become a fully fledged first-grader, though. I must admit Sloan and Amone probably came into first grade a year too earlier, especially considering they hadn't played for some time.

I am not too harsh on hook with his development of the young guys given that Bud has had injuries and Sloan has looked a little out of depth at time. My issue is that some of the experienced players have let us down so badly this year.

Throwing Sloan on when the game was lost was pretty poor, though.
Sloan was dropped after the titans game. He had one bad miss under a high ball in atrocious conditions, but even Tedesco was struggling that week-end. Overall, I thought he acquitted himself well his first grade stint.

Sloan has not seen first grade since, until yesterday. By all reports, he has been less than impressive in the reggies. I don't know whether this is an indication of his maturity or football talent. However, I do know that this year is gone and there is no harm in giving him a start at fullback while Ramsey is out, and on the wing when Ramsey is back. Time will mature him, and time in first grade will tell us his footballing ability.
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
15,004
It has been a very long time since we had a young gun that burst onto the scene, stayed on the scene and became a proven match winner.

Other clubs have had that happen and therefore I would say that our juniors are not as ell performed as others.

No doubt we have had a couple with real potential that we definitely mismanaged (Robson & Garrick) but for the most part what we considered to be top class juniors that we shouldn't have let go have had pretty average careers despite having had good if not excellent coaches at their new clubs.
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
15,004
Sloan was dropped after the titans game. He had one bad miss under a high ball in atrocious conditions, but even Tedesco was struggling that week-end. Overall, I thought he acquitted himself well his first grade stint.

Sloan has not seen first grade since, until yesterday. By all reports, he has been less than impressive in the reggies. I don't know whether this is an indication of his maturity or football talent. However, I do know that this year is gone and there is no harm in giving him a start at fullback while Ramsey is out, and on the wing when Ramsey is back. Time will mature him, and time in first grade will tell us his footballing ability.
Whatever happened to the "he has earned his spot" theory when it comes to football?

If they want to play in the big league then they need to be professional from the get go.

If he he is sitting back on his haunches, being a sook and not having a go then f**k him leave him where he is.

Far too many would be young guns get far too ahead of themselves.
 

dannyt

Coach
Messages
11,477
Whatever happened to the "he has earned his spot" theory when it comes to football?

If they want to play in the big league then they need to be professional from the get go.

If he he is sitting back on his haunches, being a sook and not having a go then f**k him leave him where he is.

Far too many would be young guns get far too ahead of themselves.
Fair points.
 

Dragon David

Bench
Messages
4,618
Sloan was dropped after the titans game. He had one bad miss under a high ball in atrocious conditions, but even Tedesco was struggling that week-end. Overall, I thought he acquitted himself well his first grade stint.

Sloan has not seen first grade since, until yesterday. By all reports, he has been less than impressive in the reggies. I don't know whether this is an indication of his maturity or football talent. However, I do know that this year is gone and there is no harm in giving him a start at fullback while Ramsey is out, and on the wing when Ramsey is back. Time will mature him, and time in first grade will tell us his footballing ability.
After the Titans game, Hook probably said something like "you played shit, you are dropped" rather than to saying something like, "look Tyrell, todays conditions didn't suit you and you had some catching and defensive lapses that virtually lost us the game, so the best thing to do is spend a bit of time in the KOE Cup to get more game time and build up and improve your defence. I'll make sure that you get the proper training and come back to you to see how things have progressed". I wonder what he said. I don't think that Hook even came and saw how his progress was going and if he needed more help.

That probably applies to a few others waiting in the wings. Look I can see that Hook is making sure that the young ones mature and develop and that they have to be patient until the time is right with their development, but like many things in life, experience counts and the more time the younger ones spend in first grade the better for them to either excel or die on their sword particularly now that it is highly unlikely that we will make a dent in the last 5 games to be in the top 8.
 

OneEyedDragon

Juniors
Messages
936
I just watched the Aussie girls win the Commonwealth Games Rugby 7s Gold medal. Can we sign most of those girls to play for our NRL side? They showed speed, shape in attack, aggressive defence, long passes that stuck and they actually supported the play and ran at the gaps! Maybe coach Griffiths could show the video to the team?
 

SBD82

Coach
Messages
15,889
Whatever happened to the "he has earned his spot" theory when it comes to football?

If they want to play in the big league then they need to be professional from the get go.

If he he is sitting back on his haunches, being a sook and not having a go then f**k him leave him where he is.

Far too many would be young guns get far too ahead of themselves.
How do you teach young players that they need to earn their spot when McCullough, Woods and Mbye are selected every week?
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
15,004
How do you teach young players that they need to earn their spot when McCullough, Woods and Mbye are selected every week?
TS had his chance didn’t take it and continues to make those same mistakes in lower grades
Obviously his form doesn’t warrant his promotion
Same for Kerr, Ford, Hunt and probably Burns when they get to the top grade they just don’t deliver.
Ramsey to his credit is one that hit it right and when he got his 2nd chance he took it.
Bud’s situation is clouded by injury and the fact that Hunt is our best player & captain but Bud should have been in 1st’s at Amone’s expense
 

SBD82

Coach
Messages
15,889
TS had his chance didn’t take it and continues to make those same mistakes in lower grades
Obviously his form doesn’t warrant his promotion
Same for Kerr, Ford, Hunt and probably Burns when they get to the top grade they just don’t deliver.
Ramsey to his credit is one that hit it right and when he got his 2nd chance he took it.
Bud’s situation is clouded by injury and the fact that Hunt is our best player & captain but Bud should have been in 1st’s at Amone’s expense
That’s a nice story. But it’s not an answer to what I asked.
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
15,004
That’s a nice story. But it’s not an answer to what I asked.
Ok let me put it another way tell me who in reserve grade has put their hand up with form that undeniably warrants selection?

Unfortunately everything in here is predicated on so & so in 1st grade should be dropped due to their form but nobody ever posts that so & so in reserves is so electric they must be included

Selection by default rather than merit.
 

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