Overhauling the domestic season schedule

[jargan83]

Does any other country run their domestic T20 competition while they are playing Test Cricket?

 

[hineyrulz]

I've kept this as a separate post, because it's a bit of a TLDR and probably no one else cares, which is 100% fair.

In our side, we've got a gun young bat. 16 years old, and after 11 rounds he's our second top run scorer with probably the nicest looking technique I've ever seen outside international cricket. Last year he took a year off cricket, having gone off to play some high level junior cricket or other, and his old man (who plays fives) said he was contemplating giving the game away. This is a kid who has scored three back to back fifties batting five in second grade at age 16...he's very, very good and loves the game.

So when he was mooted for the move into our side after the first few rounds I pulled him and his old man aside for a chat about it, because I didn't want to push him up too high for one, and because I wanted to make sure he was having fun and that we didn't wreck that. We got to chatting about the reasons he wanted to quit, and he unloaded on the coaching system in the juniors.

Basically, he was getting stick from his teammates, coaches, and other parents as a number three bat for scoring too slow. He was (and still is) getting out chipping balls to mid-on consistently and he wanted to sort that out, technically, so he went to his coaches only to be told stuff like "don't worry about it, just try to focus on hitting the ball harder so it goes over the fielder" and "play your natural game and it will sort itself out." Obviously I'm paraphrasing, but the gist was that he wanted to sort out an aspect of his game, and his coaches flat out told him it wasn't important so long as he could score runs otherwise. And the parents were apparently shocking, basically controlling the side and carrying on if anyone criticised or stood in the way of their little superstar. He wound up batting 7 and 8 because parents complained that he didn't hit as many boundaries as their kids, parents were sledging him, and the real final straw was one of the coaches telling him he was "a bit selfish" for playing the way he did and for taking up their time every week asking the same questions about how to fix his mid-on issue...

I mean, obviously that's just one side of the story, but it parallels a few others I've heard in a lot of ways. There are very serious issues at grass roots level in Australia. And it's not just junior cricket either, The Grade Cricketer lads have had some excellent discussions about Greg Chappell and the way he wrecked grade cricket...

Not sure how I missed this thread(a week on the piss will do that too you) but I got more out of this than anything else written so far.


I used to work at a cricket store and heard some absolute horror stories when it comes to coaching at junior levels. But this story sticks with me years later, a young fella and his father used to come into the store or his new kit every season. The dad was loaded but a helluva nice bloke and his son was a well mannered and respectful kid. They would spend the day in there and would always leave by shaking my hand and thanking me for any help and advice I was able to give him. He was opening the batting in second grade and doing well and a QLD U17's rep.


Long story short he was brought up and coached by his dad as technique and patience being the two most important things for an opening bat(crazy right not a lever in sight) and playing straight and through the V and not playing a cross bat shot unless he was playing cross bat shots. After making the QLD u17's him and his father took an instant dislike the the coach. Telling him he needed to change his game and was not attacking enough. This was a 16 year old kid opening the batting in second grade and looking to push into first grade fairly soon but he needed change his game. It came to a head when they were playing a 20/20 practice match where he was abused in front of his team mates for being selfish and not doing what was best for the team. A run a ball 20 wasn't good enough because he didn't show enough levers. Heaven help the future of batting in this country if clowns like this coach are the norm.

 

[mozza91]

Absolutely crazy that this is occurring. Remember the barrage of criticism Renshaw copped from the commentators for scoring too slowly a couple of summers back?

Ridiculous that the same thing is happening at junior levels. We’re in for long period of mediocrity at International level if this continues.

 

[Eelectrica]

Reading some of these stories... I really wish some of the junior "coaches" would take a really good look at Pujara. The bloke has the patience of a stone, scores big runs. Late in the day he just cashes in when bowlers are stuffed.

This tour from India serves as a preview of what's to come if the people running the show don't get people who know what they're talking about at junior level.
Smith will come back to save our bacon for 4 or 5 years, then its going to be a few long summers as we plummet to current West Indies levels.

 

[Twizzle]

Not sure how I missed this thread(a week on the piss will do that too you) but I got more out of this than anything else written so far.


I used to work at a cricket store and heard some absolute horror stories when it comes to coaching at junior levels. But this story sticks with me years later, a young fella and his father used to come into the store or his new kit every season. The dad was loaded but a helluva nice bloke and his son was a well mannered and respectful kid. They would spend the day in there and would always leave by shaking my hand and thanking me for any help and advice I was able to give him. He was opening the batting in second grade and doing well and a QLD U17's rep.


Long story short he was brought up and coached by his dad as technique and patience being the two most important things for an opening bat(crazy right not a lever in sight) and playing straight and through the V and not playing a cross bat shot unless he was playing cross bat shots. After making the QLD u17's him and his father took an instant dislike the the coach. Telling him he needed to change his game and was not attacking enough. This was a 16 year old kid opening the batting in second grade and looking to push into first grade fairly soon but he needed change his game. It came to a head when they were playing a 20/20 practice match where he was abused in front of his team mates for being selfish and not doing what was best for the team. A run a ball 20 wasn't good enough because he didn't show enough levers. Heaven help the future of batting in this country if clowns like this coach are the norm.

edit* f**king server error

 

[Twizzle]

I see a lot of this coaching kids from say 12 to 16.

In Tweed District we are too far from Sydney so we get invited to carnivals in SE Qld. One of the biggest problems is parents coaching their kids and a win at any cost instead of just enjoying the game attitude.

At U/12 level I tend to rotate the batters and bowlers so everyone gets something out of the games but at U/16s we tend to take it more serious with batting orders.

From the age of say 14 we play a lot of 2 day carnivals so there is a round of games then a final, all in 2 days so some games are only 15 overs, would kill for a 50 over game.

Then the coaches become selectors to select team of the carnival to play say Qld A team or some other rep team.

 

[Twizzle]

When they get to the next level at say U/16s the state selectors and coaches take over but some of the better players of the longer version of the game have already been cast aside. They take very little notice of club form mainly because they dont have a clue, or pay any attention, to what happens at club level.

 

[Twizzle]

Generally I find the cream rises to the top as most quality players can play bother versions but some kids really cop some shit if they are slow and some even give it away from the crap they get from their peers and parents/coaches etc.

 

[2 weeks]

This won't happen, but if I was overlord at Cricket Australia, then we would play 4 rounds of Shield, and fit the rest of the schedule around that. Play the one dayers 2 or 3 days before them.
I'd also invest in a ground in Far North Australia (WA,Qld or NT) with instructions to have the decks as turners from ball one, and play regular Shield games on it.

 

[Bazal]

Generally I find the cream rises to the top as most quality players can play bother versions but some kids really cop some shit if they are slow and some even give it away from the crap they get from their peers and parents/coaches etc.

Yeah that's the problem. It drives kids away from the game.

Obviously it's mighty unlikely that any of these kids will ever play for Australia, but they are all part of the system, whether that winds up being grade cricket or state cricket or even park cricket. The players shape the game, and there are a lot of kids leaving the game who could help shape a better game.

The junior game is a mess, from what I've seen.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Regional areas too. BBL won't move but they need to find a way to get the fringe guys meaningful games.

Look at the situation now. We need changes even a 3 test A tour might have a guy with 200 odd runs ready to go

I’m concerned if we take too many matches away from the big grounds we’d be losing a natural advantage we should have. Knowledge of how those wickets play come the test matches is vital.

 

[Bazal]

Not sure how I missed this thread(a week on the piss will do that too you) but I got more out of this than anything else written so far.


I used to work at a cricket store and heard some absolute horror stories when it comes to coaching at junior levels. But this story sticks with me years later, a young fella and his father used to come into the store or his new kit every season. The dad was loaded but a helluva nice bloke and his son was a well mannered and respectful kid. They would spend the day in there and would always leave by shaking my hand and thanking me for any help and advice I was able to give him. He was opening the batting in second grade and doing well and a QLD U17's rep.


Long story short he was brought up and coached by his dad as technique and patience being the two most important things for an opening bat(crazy right not a lever in sight) and playing straight and through the V and not playing a cross bat shot unless he was playing cross bat shots. After making the QLD u17's him and his father took an instant dislike the the coach. Telling him he needed to change his game and was not attacking enough. This was a 16 year old kid opening the batting in second grade and looking to push into first grade fairly soon but he needed change his game. It came to a head when they were playing a 20/20 practice match where he was abused in front of his team mates for being selfish and not doing what was best for the team. A run a ball 20 wasn't good enough because he didn't show enough levers. Heaven help the future of batting in this country if clowns like this coach are the norm.

The problem is that coaches like this are becoming the norm. And it's not even necessarily the idea that they need the kids to score quickly, although it is for some absolutely and they are the worst. I've helped out one of the lads at my club who is on the board for a local junior club with some fielding practice and such, and the core idea is that everyone should get a go. So a lot of coaches encourage taking risks because, at the end of the day, it means more wickets and a higher chance that everyone gets a go. Then you've got certain age levels where they face a thirty-ball maximum, or where they retire at 25, or whatever.

Now, that's all fine for young kids, or in lower levels. But I've noticed the same attitude continues up the grades...almost no one is being encouraged to bat time.

There is a problem with coaching but there's also a generational problem. In these times of helicopter parenting, where everyone gets a prize for turning up and winning and losing are banned concepts, it seems like there's a tendency for coaches to give up somewhat on coaching and just kind of run the teams. They don't want to criticise the way a player plays, because they fear the consequences of trying to change how a kid plays in terms of their psyche and their parents attitude. So it's all empty platitudes and "play your natural game" and working with the kids strengths, rather than fixing their weaknesses.

Ultimately there are a whole range of issues with junior cricket. Poor coaching is one, and that comes from a mixture of genuinely poor coaches and other factors, but also I think poor parenting contributes (every kid is a special little perfect snowflake, right?) and a poor structure at junior level doesn't help either. It's a mixture of issues, really.

 

[franklin2323]

I’m concerned if we take too many matches away from the big grounds we’d be losing a natural advantage we should have. Knowledge of how those wickets play come the test matches is vital.

BBL will expand if anything so either keep it as it is or get some kind of games for fringe guys

 

[herbert henry1908]

BBL will expand if anything so either keep it as it is or get some kind of games for fringe guys

I don’t think we’ll see BBL expand by much games wise again. 59 matches this season, goes right until February 17. That’s almost 2 full months.

If it expands teams I expect they’ll keep the games to a similar number.

For instance if they go to 10 teams

Play each other once would be 46 games, probably too short

Two pools of 5, play your own pool twice & the other once would be 68 (including finals)

If they went up to 12 teams

Play each other once would be 69 games. (Including finals)



Thing is there’s just not enough time in the international cricket schedule if they want to attract overseas talent, and they need overseas talent if they expand the teams.

Plus I suspect they’ll be hesitant to expand it too far because that’ll give the BCCI a reason to expand the IPL, and that could really stuff up the international schedule.

 

[umina panther]

Ban 20/20 imo. Its garbage

 

[franklin2323]

I don’t think we’ll see BBL expand by much games wise again. 59 matches this season, goes right until February 17. That’s almost 2 full months.

If it expands teams I expect they’ll keep the games to a similar number.

For instance if they go to 10 teams

Play each other once would be 46 games, probably too short

Two pools of 5, play your own pool twice & the other once would be 68 (including finals)

If they went up to 12 teams

Play each other once would be 69 games. (Including finals)



Thing is there’s just not enough time in the international cricket schedule if they want to attract overseas talent, and they need overseas talent if they expand the teams.

Plus I suspect they’ll be hesitant to expand it too far because that’ll give the BCCI a reason to expand the IPL, and that could really stuff up the international schedule.

We already have this year BBL going head to head with a test match. No international Short form cricket on FTA. Maybe BBL is the preferred now

 

[Twizzle]

We already have this year BBL going head to head with a test match. No international Short form cricket on FTA. Maybe BBL is the preferred now

only by Sutherland as it pays for his big fat bonuses

 

[herbert henry1908]

We already have this year BBL going head to head with a test match. No international Short form cricket on FTA. Maybe BBL is the preferred now

It’s definitely popular, but so is test cricket still. The TV ratings for the India series have been very strong.

6 test matches in a summer provides almost the same amount of viewing hours as the BBL.

 

[herbert henry1908]

only by Sutherland as it pays for his big fat bonuses

BBL is overall a good thing for cricket, it’s just finding the right balance. We haven’t found it.

 

[umina panther]

BBL is overall a good thing for cricket, it’s just finding the right balance. We haven’t found it.

20/20 is shit but it does bring new fans I guess.
50 over cricket is what needs a bullet really