Pacific Islander owned 18th NRL club.

[MugaB]

Yeah, but a Pacific Island team based in South Auckland would likely undermine the Warriors supporter base. No way the Warriors would be keen on that.

The best solution for a 2nd NZ team would be a big (for New Zealand) city away from Auckland - and Wellington or Christchurch are the options.

Two teams in rugba lig heartland, PVL will sign off on that in a heartbeat... besides no one complaining about bronx sharing SEQ with tits and fins

 

[MugaB]

It's true though .. games being play in PNG or the various PI islands just wont work.

Why have a team with no real home?

Weststigers thanks u for your commitment

Anyways
Home = Auckland

Team name = not pasifika, making it an orca or something generic enough but call it South Pacific (somethings).... (too bad crusaders, blues, and warriors are taken)

Lower grade Talent fed from fiji, tonga, samoa

No different to the warriors, call it warriors 2.0 just aligning morso with certain islands moreso than new zealand

 

[flippikat]

Two teams in rugba lig heartland, PVL will sign off on that in a heartbeat... besides no one complaining about bronx sharing SEQ with tits and fins

Not even comparable

The Warriors draw most of their fanbase from South Auckland - the exact same PI-filled area that an island team would draw support from.

Keep in mind the the northwards-skewed Dolphins was selected (in no small part) because they wouldn't tread on the Broncos - or for that matter the Titans - toes as much as the other two contenders for "Brisbane 2" would have.

 

[Iamback]

Not even comparable

The Warriors draw most of their fanbase from South Auckland - the exact same PI-filled area that an island team would draw support from.

Keep in mind the the northwards-skewed Dolphins was selected (in no small part) because they wouldn't tread on the Broncos - or for that matter the Titans - toes as much as the other two contenders for "Brisbane 2" would have.

They also ticked plenty of boxes too

 

[Wb1234]

Yeah, but a Pacific Island team based in South Auckland would likely undermine the Warriors supporter base. No way the Warriors would be keen on that.

The best solution for a 2nd NZ team would be a big (for New Zealand) city away from Auckland - and Wellington or Christchurch are the options.

What about the pi side being Auckland 2 but playing out of north harbour ?

 

[Colk]

Not even comparable

The Warriors draw most of their fanbase from South Auckland - the exact same PI-filled area that an island team would draw support from.

Keep in mind the the northwards-skewed Dolphins was selected (in no small part) because they wouldn't tread on the Broncos - or for that matter the Titans - toes as much as the other two contenders for "Brisbane 2" would have.

Does Wellington have a strong PI population?

 

[Perth Red]

They also ticked plenty of boxes too

They ticked news ltd box not to encroach on their multi million $ profit making broncos lol

 

[flippikat]

Does Wellington have a strong PI population?

For the Greater Wellington region

Total population 506,814

8.4% Pacific Island ethnicity (note: I'm guessing this is the Samoan & Tongan communities, largely based around Porirua)

Total Pacific Population in Greater Wellington = 42,572

(Source: NZ Census data, 2018 NZ Census)

2018 Census place summaries | Stats NZ

2018 Census statistics for Wellington Region: population, ethnicity, religion, languages spoken, birthplace, cigarette smoking, disability, education, work, income, transport, housing

www.stats.govt.nz

 

[Colk]

For the Greater Wellington region

Total population 506,814

8.4% Pacific Island ethnicity (note: I'm guessing this is the Samoan & Tongan communities, largely based around Porirua)

Total Pacific Population in Greater Wellington = 42,572

(Source: NZ Census data, 2018 NZ Census)

2018 Census place summaries | Stats NZ

2018 Census statistics for Wellington Region: population, ethnicity, religion, languages spoken, birthplace, cigarette smoking, disability, education, work, income, transport, housing

www.stats.govt.nz

Cheers Flippikat. So the idea of a PI side could only really take place in Auckland?

We are better off aiming eventually for three Kiwi sides - Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch or Auckland x 2 and Christchurch

 

[Matua]

Cherrs Flippikat. So the idea of a PI side would only really could take place in Auckland?

We are better off aiming eventually for three Kiwi sides - Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch or Auckland x 2 and Christchurch

Obviously Auckland would be best for a PI side but it's probably doable in Wellington. Non PI fans can still support a PI team. Moana Pasifika gets support from non PI fans, especially as a second team.

Probably best idea would be to re-label the Warriors the PI team (kick out the current owners completely) and have a new team in Wellington.

 

[MugaB]

Cherrs Flippikat. So the idea of a PI side would only really could take place in Auckland?

We are better off aiming eventually for three Kiwi sides - Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch or Auckland x 2 and Christchurch

That's why keep saying a 2nd team in rugba heartland is a no brainer, it already has the locale of Polynesian communities, far greater than any other area in nz, and has a big enough population in that one city to hold 2 teams, the whole we need one in Wellington (art city) and Christchurch (RU stronghold) is useless when Auckland could be as big as brisbane in a decade or 2, and the percentage of P.I players are either stemming from there or can be trained there as a hub, from each neighbouring island... and yes this can be done Wellington, but if the PI crowds are at mt smart then why not... look at the internationals it completely packs out... a see of red when tonga play, that might not convert to club matches, but get enough homegrown talent maybe

 

[Matua]

8.4% Pacific Island ethnicity (note: I'm guessing this is the Samoan & Tongan communities, largely based around Porirua)

Will also include a considerable Cook Island Maori population too.

 

[The Great Dane]

Not sure I agree with most of this. The bold is emotive nonsense.

The bold is undeniable, let me explain even if I shouldn't have to.

Moana Pasifika is effectively a racially exclusive team. You can pull all the mental gymnastics and rationalisations as to why that's okay that you like, but it is what it is, and that's undeniably a regression as before now such a thing wouldn't have been socially acceptable in the mainstream cultures of Western countries for at least 50-70 years depending on where you are. That's a big backwards step.

Now let me ask you what the public response would have been if somebody had proposed a team using similar hiring principles but called e.g. "Europa United", or for a Kiwi spin "Pakeha United". The national outrage would be immense, and it would've made headlines internationally, with the same people whom champion Moana Pasifika being the first to criticise our hypothetical European heritage team as deplorably racist and discriminatory. Allowing one but not the other isn't ethically consistent, and is a fine example of the abandonment of universality that has been quickly spreading throughout liberal democracies around the world.

So there you go, nothing emotional or nonsense about it at all, and the above trends should concern any right minded person.

The team is based in Auckland because it's not feasible to base it anywhere in the Islands and pretending otherwise is just silly.

I'm not pretending otherwise, I'm saying it shouldn't exist at all lol.

For the most part pro teams from Pacific Island nations are pipedreams. Everybody would love it if they were economically feasible, but they aren't and probably won't be for generations, which is unfortunate but just is what it is.

The team is designed to provide PI declared players spots in Super Rugby. The majority of the players in the team represent the islands, and we've already seen players switch to the Islands due to their involvement in the team. Without this team most of those players would be playing up in the NH.

As for building from the ground, the bulk of the PI players in rugby/rugby league are from NZ (and increasingly Oz). It does not have to be zero sum, the sport (either one) can be built in the islands while having other avenues for PI players such as Moana Pasifika. A specific PI team in a comp, even if based in another country, still gives players from the islands something to aim for outside of securing a NH or NRL contract in an Oz city.

All of those problems could have been fixed without the necessity of a racial team simply by RU, the ARU, NZRU, all other relevant unions, and Super Rugby, fixing their backwards eligibility rules and modernising their competitions into genuine professional organisation that allows players to seek the best deal possible for their services without that hampering their eligibility for international competition.

 

[Colk]

Obviously Auckland would be best for a PI side but it's probably doable in Wellington. Non PI fans can still support a PI team. Moana Pasifika gets support from non PI fans, especially as a second team.

Probably best idea would be to re-label the Warriors the PI team (kick out the current owners completely) and have a new team in Wellington.

The thing with a PI side or a marketed one would be:

Is it going to be an exclusive PI side (you would only have players, staff and ownership with people of a PI background - not a fan of this idea for obvious reasons). The better way would surely be have more Kiwi sides and have them successful.

 

[Matiunz]

Sounds suspiciously like the Richard Fale bid to buy the Warriors a few years back. Rode into town all flashy making massive boasts and claims but didn’t really hold up to scrutiny.

 

[Perth Red]

The thing with a PI side or a marketed one would be:

Is it going to be an exclusive PI side (you would only have players, staff and ownership with people of a PI background - not a fan of this idea for obvious reasons). The better way would surely be have more Kiwi sides and have them successful.

well we know Vlandys loves tribalism so probably makes sense to him lol.

 

[Colk]

well we know Vlandys loves tribalism so probably makes sense to him lol.

As Great Dane has mentioned earlier creating a side on the basis of race or religion for example is a dangerous idea.

If the idea was for a club that’s called Pacific something and operated like a normal club (not demarcating anyone or anything), maybe playing a few games in the Islands but based somewhere in New Zealand then fair enough. Still prefer other ideas but fair enough.

 

[MugaB]

As Great Dane has mentioned earlier creating a side on the basis of race or religion for example is a dangerous idea.

If the idea was for a club that’s called Pacific something and operated like a normal club (not demarcating anyone or anything), maybe playing a few games in the Islands but based somewhere in New Zealand then fair enough. Still prefer other ideas but fair enough.

Yep this and keeping it as generic as can be, not, specifically hinting towards either fijian, togan or samoan themes regarding the mascot or emblems, that can be kept for internationals...
The perception should be its a team in the South Pacific, representing the islands, but operates as if it were any other club in the NRL, not bound by race, just make the affiliations stream from the islands, just like dolphins with capras etc

 

[Colk]

Yep this and keeping it as generic as can be, not, specifically hinting towards either fijian, togan or samoan themes regarding the mascot or emblems, that can be kept for internationals...
The perception should be its a team in the South Pacific, representing the islands, but operates as if it were any other club in the NRL, not bound by race, just make the affiliations stream from the islands, just like dolphins with capras etc

Yeah it would have some merit if it was based on these lines.

I would love a couple of extra sides over there to really take on union.

 

[Matua]

Moana Pasifika is effectively a racially exclusive team.

No it's not.

"Pacific Island" is not a race.

If anything it's an eligibility team, like all teams in Super Rugby. It's for players from the PIs, of PI heritage, eligible for the PIs, or eligible for NZ. It's actually more open than other Super teams (Australian eligible players and Pakeha players turned out for the team).

If it was based in Samoa/Tonga then I predict you wouldn't be using these arguments against it. Do you have an issue with the Drua? I assume you had no issue with the Jaguares (which was only open to Argentinian players) or the Sunwolves (which was only open to players eligible for Japan). You only have an issue because it's based in NZ.

Now let me ask you what the public response would have been if somebody had proposed a team using similar hiring principles but called e.g. "Europa United", or for a Kiwi spin "Pakeha United". The national outrage would be immense, and it would've made headlines internationally, with the same people whom champion Moana Pasifika being the first to criticise our hypothetical European heritage team as deplorably racist and discriminatory. Allowing one but not the other isn't ethically consistent, and is a fine example of the abandonment of universality that has been quickly spreading throughout liberal democracies around the world.

There's no need of those teams to exist. Pakeha NZers are well represented with accessible pro teams in NZ. On any given weekend in NZ and Oz you're likely to find teams of different ethnic or cultural backgrounds playing each other in league and rugby. It's not an issue unless you're wanting to make it one. But even so, I've played rugby against a Pakeha team before. There was no outrage. Also MP is really not discriminating against anyone. It would not exist if not created to be a PI team. If it was financially viable for the team to be based in the islands then would you have an issue with its existence?

TBH, when responding to your original post I didn't even think you were complaining about it from a "race" viewpoint. I actually thought you were suggesting we're not doing enough to help the islands. I guess I read you wrong.

All of those problems could have been fixed without the necessity of a racial team simply by RU, the ARU, NZRU, all other relevant unions, and Super Rugby, fixing their backwards eligibility rules and modernising their competitions into genuine professional organisation that allows players to seek the best deal possible for their services without that hampering their eligibility for international competition.

Hilarious pot calling the kettle black considering league eligibility rules that allowed players to change teams on the eve of a competition, during a season, and has specific SOO rules that preference one type of Polynesian ancestry over another type of Polynesian ancestry, and over any European ancestry (to the benefit 3 or 4 countries over the rest including the most powerful and rich country in the sport).