Paris SL Team dead

[ParraEelsNRL]

Some info Here from Cliff Spracklen about whats going on in the game and the talk of Stade France.

Looks like they might be in the LER next season.

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

http://www.rugbyforumxiii.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=36745

Thread at RugbyforumXIII about the proposed team.

 

[Jankuloski]

I guess they saw it makes sense not to start from the top level. Good thing.

 

[Acka]

This team practically fell in our lap - they have a stadium and financial structure. RL doesn't have any hope of having a team in Paris in the next 30 years. There is absolutely nothing to loose.

The Crusaders are having problems with the ground they'll play at and with financing the club - not a problem for Paris.

The problem is that the Super League experimented with a Paris club in 1996 and 1997 (Remember Paris Saint Germain) and it was a flop

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

you play two games a weekend and see how you feel :crazy:

 

[Jankuloski]

^Huh?

Anyway, this point about PSG has allready been chewed over a million times. It's not enough to say that a team in Paris failed once and that's the end of all RL ever in Paris. I don't know why the PSG team failed, but unless it was a very organised team with good financial structure and marketing coverage, which from what I've heard doesn't seem likely, it says nothing about the prospects of this new franchise.

 

[bowes]

^Huh?

Anyway, this point about PSG has allready been chewed over a million times. It's not enough to say that a team in Paris failed once and that's the end of all RL ever in Paris. I don't know why the PSG team failed, but unless it was a very organised team with good financial structure and marketing coverage, which from what I've heard doesn't seem likely, it says nothing about the prospects of this new franchise.

Yeah clearly you can't say never have a SL club in Paris, but to me the failure before suggests any future bids should be carefully scrutinised (more not less than an existing club as it's more risky) and not just rushed in without being suitable because it looks good to have a club in Paris, like happened with PSG (or Crusaders for that matter).

The fact that they are looking to play Elite to me is a very good thing as I think top down in Paris again would be a bad idea but if they prove themselves (and that they're serious) it would be good to have a Paris side.

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

I agree about making them prove themselves in the Elite first, I just hope they don't get put in at Toulouse's expense because Toulouse have at least been doing the hard work and it would be a shame to see them miss out because someone with money wants another play thing.

 

[Jankuloski]

Hmm.. It would be heartbreaking, and I don't think it's necessarily one or the other. But if they can't both get in (why?) I'd still prefer to see the side that will bring more to the game in terms of attendances and sponsorships. RL needs to take agressive steps forward if it's to catch up to other codes.

BTW - Can we change the name of this thread? Or open a new one? I think a lot of people just glance over the international forum and they might get the wrong impression.

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

No mate, I like the name of the thread as it was a troll from SteveM who continually comes in here to troll.

And what better way to shut up a troll than use his thread and actually see this expansion side come to life? ;-)

You can bet your balls he's keeping an eye on it.

Hello, hello, are you out there Steve, what do you think of these developments?

 

[bowes]

But if they can't both get in (why?)

In short lack of playing talent in France, while there's probably enough for 2 clubs with the best ones all in Catalans it would be more difficult to get a SL standard club from the rest, so 2 would be very difficult. Also a Paris side really would need to hit the ground running, Paris started off getting good crowds last time but with the poor playing standard (in part due to players playing for their French League clubs as well, but just general bad organisation) crowds ended up dropping to about 500.

Toulouse still need to do half decent to attract sponsors and fans, but I imagine even if they finished bottom (as they would first season if they went up now) if it were respectable like Catalans first season it would be okay, but not if it were like Crusaders this year or worse (which I would fear given their very poor Championship performances, you wouldn't put a 2nd bottom Queensland Cup side straight in the NRL without sacking the entire squad, and in this case that would mean getting rid of French players, but if they improve massively this season then things could change, 2015 is more likely for Toulouse though).

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

In short lack of playing talent in France, while there's probably enough for 2 clubs with the best ones all in Catalans it would be more difficult to get a SL standard club from the rest, so 2 would be very difficult. Also a Paris side really would need to hit the ground running, Paris started off getting good crowds last time but with the poor playing standard (in part due to players playing for their French League clubs as well, but just general bad organisation) crowds ended up dropping to about 500.

Here's something, if this guy likes to spend money and win, with the amount of ex RL players in France like Gaz, $BW, Rooney, Gower and a few others, he could actually have the start of a very very strong RL side straight off couldn't he if he went after them? ;-)

Then add in the fact that this side if it does get the go ahead in either 2012/2015, there will def be a number of youngsters that are coming through now who will have been brought up through the Pro ranks, as we've seen over the last couple of years with Les Catalans, the numbers are increasing at a very strong rate.

Then you also have the Union players who can't get a start in the Top 14 clubs, the T14 will be scaling back their imports shortly, so they will only get the best imports to play, there will be plenty of RU players who are good, but not the super stars that might want to play in a top Level club be it Union or League.

Toulouse still need to do half decent to attract sponsors and fans, but I imagine even if they finished bottom (as they would first season if they went up now) if it were respectable like Catalans first season it would be okay, but not if it were like Crusaders this year or worse (which I would fear given their very poor Championship performances, you wouldn't put a 2nd bottom Queensland Cup side straight in the NRL without sacking the entire squad, and in this case that would mean getting rid of French players, but if they improve massively this season then things could change, 2015 is more likely for Toulouse though).

I think Toulouse don't have much to worry about, once they get the go ahead, they'll be up to speed in no time, they are in a far better situation than a new team out of Paris.

They have a history, they have fans, they have juniors, they've got a ground that is being fixed up, all hey need is a decent team on the paddock to finish the product off.

 

[bowes]

Here's something, if this guy likes to spend money and win, with the amount of ex RL players in France like Gaz, $BW, Rooney, Gower and a few others, he could actually have the start of a very very strong RL side straight off couldn't he if he went after them? ;-)

Then add in the fact that this side if it does get the go ahead in either 2012/2015, there will def be a number of youngsters that are coming through now who will have been brought up through the Pro ranks, as we've seen over the last couple of years with Les Catalans, the numbers are increasing at a very strong rate.

Then you also have the Union players who can't get a start in the Top 14 clubs, the T14 will be scaling back their imports shortly, so they will only get the best imports to play, there will be plenty of RU players who are good, but not the super stars that might want to play in a top Level club be it Union or League.



I think Toulouse don't have much to worry about, once they get the go ahead, they'll be up to speed in no time, they are in a far better situation than a new team out of Paris.

They have a history, they have fans, they have juniors, they've got a ground that is being fixed up, all hey need is a decent team on the paddock to finish the product off.

The problem is that even now the Top 14 salary cap will be over 4 times the SL one and the reduction in imports means they will tend to sign more French players. Thus I think they're more likely to get existing players and imports (though Stade Francais could get reserves from the RU club, hardly going to set the world alight in SL though). While I agree that playing standard is the only problem for Toulouse, I think it is more an issue than you say as they really do struggle to put any kind of performance in at lower league level so hardly bodes well for SL. We'll see how they do next season as if they do well then (as long as it's with mostly French players) it will change things, just chucking them in from near the bottom of the Championship and hoping would be a huge mistake). I hope they put in a very good season next year, but I find it hard to see it being good enough

As with SF since top down development has always failed in European RL they would really have to do very well from the start, or be very very patient, and I can't see how they could do that from scratch without massively breaking the salary cap.

 

[SteveM]

No mate, I like the name of the thread as it was a troll from SteveM who continually comes in here to troll.

And what better way to shut up a troll than use his thread and actually see this expansion side come to life? ;-)

You can bet your balls he's keeping an eye on it.

Hello, hello, are you out there Steve, what do you think of these developments?

There is no reason to start a ESL RL side in Paris. It would b a massive failure just like the last time.There are no players, no juniors, no fans and no interest. It would fail within a year.

Looks like Stade are ticking a couple of boxes to help get the stadium built and keep the mayor happy. Get a team in the LER and let them go when the stadium is complete.

As I have said Toulouse is the best bet by a country mile.

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

You think?

The Stade France chairman Guazzini for a start is a RL fan who use to go along to games in Marseilles when he was younger, it's not like he doesn't know the game, if he thinks he can make it work, I'd trust a proven businessman over an internet Troll.

As for players, who says they have to be from Paris?

Is that another stipulation only for RL?

All other team sports around the world can play who they like in their teams, but RL players have to be locals :roll:

The team is 3-6 years away, don't you think there will be more juniors by then? I just think you want to keep Pro RL out of Paris Steve, you want to keep it down.

The RL team might very well be part of getting a new stadium for Guazzini and his SF team, never said it wasn't. But why would the guy not want to use the ground for 12 months of the year and make even more money?

His RU side will be coming down from 20 million Euros playing strength to 7 million, he'll be saving 13 million already and he would only need to spend 1-2 million on a RL side, he's still left with 10 million plus if it works, he's getting money from not 1 side, but 2 sides playing 12 months of the year.

BRING IT HOME ... Laporte is pushing plan

team is a capital plan

By DAVID PARKER

Published: 06 Nov 2009

Add a comment (0)
IT could soon be Paris here we come - again!

Max Guazini, the multi-millionaire owner of the Stade de France, and the casino-owning Patouche family want the 13-a-side code back.
The job of returning Super League to the French capital - Paris St Germain lasted three seasons from 1995 - has been handed to Bernard Laporte.
I understand Laporte, the former French Minister of Sport and French rugby union international coach, was in England this week to meet the Rugby League International Board to update them on the project.
Stade Francais, the union team also owned by Guazini, recently pulled in 80,000 for a Top 14 fixture with Toulouse. And Guazini is convinced 'the other code' would be equally successful in Paris - though probably in a newly-built 30,000-40,000 capacity venue.
He and the Patouche family would also entirely fund the new team, which would more than likely be fast-tracked into Super League rather than having to come through the other two divisions.
At the moment the Catalans Dragons receive huge financial assistance from Super League Europe and the English RFL fund Championship club Toulouse as well.
A source close to Laporte said: "A new team is the buzz word in Paris. The money men are convinced they can make a go of it.


Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...New-team-is-a-capital-plan.html#ixzz0bU6TkH4q

So SteveM thinks it can't possibly work, it has no hope in hell, it'll fail within a year blah blah blah I'm a vichyfan I know it all.


Well you go and tell that to Max Guazini, the Patouche family and the former French Minister of Sport Bernard Laporte.

 

[joshreading]

I was reading on another site (rlfans) that the key to Paris coming in is that it would come with a French TV deal. (because of Stade Francais' profile). It was saying that in such a case Toulouse would also come in.

If such is the case and this family is willing to pay for it all. That the inclusion of paris would mean a TV deal to benefit all the French (and english) teams then DO IT.

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

I was reading on another site (rlfans) that the key to Paris coming in is that it would come with a French TV deal. (because of Stade Francais' profile). It was saying that in such a case Toulouse would also come in.

If such is the case and this family is willing to pay for it all. That the inclusion of paris would mean a TV deal to benefit all the French (and english) teams then DO IT.

Agree 100%.

 

[SteveM]

You think?
The Stade France chairman Guazzini for a start is a RL fan who use to go along to games in Marseilles when he was younger, it's not like he doesn't know the game, if he thinks he can make it work, I'd trust a proven businessman over an internet Troll.

Is he a RL fan though ?. If so why did he not buy a RL team instead of Stade ?. He is a proven businessman and he knows there is no market for RL in Paris.

You are also a troll on the planet-rugby site.

As for players, who says they have to be from Paris?
Is that another stipulation only for RL?
All other team sports around the world can play who they like in their teams, but RL players have to be locals .

This is the one of the main reasons the last Parisian team failed in SL. French people want to see French players. There is no harm in a few over seas players but not a whole team of foreigners.

That’s what will be required as the quality of French RL players is appalling.

The team is 3-6 years away, don't you think there will be more juniors by then? I just think you want to keep Pro RL out of Paris Steve, you want to keep it down.

Who is producing these juniors ?. And why all of a sudden after decades of zero junior development will there be loads of juniors in 3-6 years time ?. There is currently only 159 RL players in Paris according to government figures. Don’t you think any potential investor will know this ?.

The RL team might very well be part of getting a new stadium for Guazzini and his SF team, never said it wasn't. But why would the guy not want to use the ground for 12 months of the year and make even more money?.

This is your biggest misunderstanding. The local authority will want to use it all year round especially in this financial climate. However, the RL team will lose more money than it costs to run the stadium by themselves. Again this will be a basic check carried out by potential investors.

Why do you think they are testing the water with a LER team ?

His RU side will be coming down from 20 million Euros playing strength to 7 million, he'll be saving 13 million already and he would only need to spend 1-2 million on a RL side, he's still left with 10 million plus if it works, he's getting money from not 1 side, but 2 sides playing 12 months of the year..

Just because the Top 14 salary cap is being lowered does not mean he will spend his money on a RL team !. How ridiculous is that statement ?. The most likely scenario is that he will spend more on the S.F academy improving the quality and quantity of French players coming through the system. This would be an investment in his existing team.

It’s going to cost a lot more to run a ESL RL team than 2 million Euro’s especially as they are effectively starting from scratch.

So SteveM thinks it can't possibly work, it has no hope in hell, it'll fail within a year blah blah blah I'm a vichyfan I know it all.
Well you go and tell that to Max Guazini, the Patouche family and the former French Minister of Sport Bernard Laporte.

I can't believe your quoting the Sun Newspaper.

Just look at London - it's taken 30 years and they only have crowds of about 2000.

Celtic Crusaders are basically bust after one year and could only sell 25 season tickets !.

There is virtually zero interest in RL in France. It only has 10,000 players in the whole country of which 156 are in Paris. Yes -159 !!!.

The Roos vs France game was a total embarrassment for the game of RL.

Those facts will not have gone unnoticed.

 

[Evil Homer]

Go away Steve. Nobody is interested in what you have to say.

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

Is he a RL fan though ?. If so why did he not buy a RL team instead of Stade ?. He is a proven businessman and he knows there is no market for RL in Paris.

You can't read obviously can you, he's a fan as he use to go to RL games, it states it in the newspaper article.

I have no idea why he has a union team but seeing as you know it all, next time you meet him, ask for us all.

You are also a troll on the planet-rugby site.

I post in RL related threads or threads where someone mentions RL, (asks a question, tells a lie) that's the difference between you and I SteveM, so if you want to disprove what I have stated, go and have a look at my posts, troll.

This is the one of the main reasons the last Parisian team failed in SL.

The last Paris team failed because the local French players not only had to play for PSG in the ESL, they then had to back up for their local Elite clubs, coupled with the fact the team stank on the pitch anyone can see it was a rushed disaster.

A fella like Guazzini obviously knows how to run a business and how to build and promote his interests, I'll back him in knowing the sporting market over a Troll who wants nothing but failure for the mung0 code.

French people want to see French players. There is no harm in a few over seas players but not a whole team of foreigners.

Is that why around a third of the players in the Top14 are from other countries Steve?

And tell me Steve, which French team(s) in RugbyLeague have a whole team of foreigners?

That’s what will be required as the quality of French RL players is appalling.

Could you tell us how you know this Steve, can you tell us why the quality of French RL players is appalling?

Who is producing these juniors ?.

The FFR13 are like they have for years Steve, the clubs also do their own thing like they always have and not to long ago, a few months actually, the FFR13 got a fair few more development officers and started working on the areas the FFR13 thought they needed working on.

There are also RL academies in Toulouse, Perpignan and a few other places. The schools are starting to get D/O's teaching children RL.

I've posted countless pics in here showing juniors playing or at juniors get togethers when you've opened your big mouth, you then scurry away for a few months and forget about it, but I don't.

And why all of a sudden after decades of zero junior development will there be loads of juniors in 3-6 years time ?.

Zero junior development?

If that's the case you plonker, how in the world has the game survived in France over the years, they obviously must have plenty of money to buy any junior Rugby Ugly player they want mustn't they?

http://www.com1site.com/FFRXIII/actualites.php

Why not educate yourself before you come back Steve.

There is currently only 159 RL players in Paris according to government figures. Don’t you think any potential investor will know this ?.

You do know that government figures usually only count registered CLUB players you dope?

Were Mimes, Federal, Cadets, Schools and junior Elite counted Steve?

http://www.com1site.com/FFRXIII/jeunes.php

Do a search Steve, the site has all the dates and fixtures listed for 2010 for everything including schools.

The Government say RL out here in Aus has only 180 odd thousand players, yet they don't count schools and others do they?

The number was over 400,000 in 2009, think about it just once.

This is your biggest misunderstanding.

My biggest misunderstanding is why you continue to come in here and be a prat, no, no I take that back, I do understand why you come in here, it's quite funny actually, you can smell the FEAR a mile away, why not buzz off back to the Roar and planet Vichy to continue your anti RL crusade.

The local authority will want to use it all year round especially in this financial climate.

Well gee Steve, I never thought of that nor did I mention it :roll:

However, the RL team will lose more money than it costs to run the stadium by themselves.

Again know all know nothing, how do you know this, got any figures available to show how much money it will cost to run the team, how about showing us what crowds they need to break even, what about the merchandise sales, how much would they need to sell each season to help stop the club going to the wall and lastly Steve the know all, how much will it cost to run the stadium just during the RL season?

Look forward to your response.

Again this will be a basic check carried out by potential investors.

You didn't read the newspaper report did you Steve, they will have major backing from Guazzini and the casino-owning Patouche family along with the ex French International Union coach who also was the minister of sport in Bernard Laporte, the first two have already stated in the newspaper report that you didn't read that they will fund it themselves.

Then there is the fact that the SL is already being shown on Orange sport, you know Orange sport Steve, the same company that is the MAJOR SPONSOR OF THE TOP 14 UNION COMP.

Why do you think they are testing the water with a LER team ?

Ummm, the FFR13 and the RFL would be the ones that want that, not the people behind the SF team.

Just because the Top 14 salary cap is being lowered does not mean he will spend his money on a RL team !.

Learn to read, he's already stated that hes going to fund it with the casino-owning Patouche family, fair dinkum :roll:

How ridiculous is that statement ?.

You're looking like a fool who can comprehend what he reads.

The most likely scenario is that he will spend more on the S.F academy improving the quality and quantity of French players coming through the system. This would be an investment in his existing team.

Who's to say what will happen Steve, maybe he will do that, maybe he'll treat them as separate clubs and do what he has to for both, ever thought of that?

It’s going to cost a lot more to run a ESL RL team than 2 million Euro’s especially as they are effectively starting from scratch.

Is it your money?

If not, why the hell hould you care what someone else does with their own money.

I can't believe your quoting the Sun Newspaper.

It wasn't just the Sun newspaper stupid, it was reported by non other than Larrat the FFR13 president on radio marseilette last month.

Here's a thread know all, knock yourself out

Just look at London - it's taken 30 years and they only have crowds of about 2000

3.5/4k, nice lie again Steve, yet you don't mention all the juniors playing down there now though do you, maybe cause your argument might fall apart.

Celtic Crusaders are basically bust after one year and could only sell 25 season tickets !.

Seems to be going down quite well with the locals Steve, why not educate yourself again

There is virtually zero interest in RL in France. It only has 10,000 players in the whole country of which 156 are in Paris. Yes -159 !!!.

Really Steve, I thought Les catalans were getting popular, I also posted some pics of games lately that have Ler 1 and 2 teams doing quite well with crowds and in the media.

Need any links?

The Roos vs France game was a total embarrassment for the game of RL.

I wasn't embarrassed Steve, so why should you care what RL fans think when you're not 1.

Those facts will not have gone unnoticed.

No, the fact that the people who are funding this were at the game and none of this came out until after the test shows you really don't have a f**king clue.

Now piss off, I'm sick of wasting my time with the likes of you who clearly has no idea what so ever.