Penrith - obituary

[Valheru]

3 Billy Smith

Let's just get that out of the way

Thankfully I'm overseas and didn't have to sit through that debacle like you poor buggers.

I've tried to maintain positivity about this team but that's very hard at the moment. That was in no way close to an acceptable performance, we have way too much talent to produce that and everyone including Robbo needs to be on notice now.

We have the 2nd worse attack in the comp which is absolutely ludicrous given the team we have. Defence has been good all year except this game but that is really a symptom of the attack as it doesn't matter how good your defence is, if you dont score points it will eventually fail.

Going through the squad...

Teddy - it has been a wonderful 5 years but he looks a shell of himself in 2023. I'm willing to Give him every chance to find his mojo and would never discount a player of his ability doing so. Origin may help but he is only being picked for that based on past service at this point.

Tupou - hard to make a judgement on him in 2023

Allen - to be fair he is living up to his potential as low as that is. Was only ever a depth player.

Paulo - same as Allen

Billy Smith - a shining light the last 2 weeks. He is going to destroy a team soon. Looks like one of the few that gives a shit and hopefully he stays on the park all year.

Sualli - he became a complete abomination sometime between when he signed that rugby contract and the next morning. Release him at the end of the year and free up the cap space and in the meantime get him on the wing where he has shown some ability.

Manu - an elephant in the room is Manu's form this year whether it is at 4 or 6. He has been horrible. He is way too young and way too good to not find form again but he has been a passenger so far this year.

Keary - the heights of the 2018 CCM feel a million years ago at this point. Unfortunately he is done IMO. I have nothing but love for him but his time has come and I would look at moving him on end of this year if possible.

Walker - our future and he needs (and will IMO) come back in after he recovers from injury. May be a blessing in disguise he wasn't involved the last 2 games because the vultures would have come for him.

JWH - big dog always puts in, no complaints.

Collins - has been one of our best all season.

Br Smith - has been unfairly maligned IMO. Playing for a new club that isn't playing to potential and a position he hasn't played full time for a couple of years has been tough. I think he has performed ok and seen glimpses of his potential. Well worth persevering with.

Lodge - was very good last year, average this year. Don't let the door hit you on the way out at end of 2023

Crighton - has a lot to offer and still finding his feet after missing the start of season.

Sitilli - another positive of the last few weeks. Needs to start soon

N Butcher - plays to his potential mostly but is a bench player at best

E Butcher - has improved a lot this year and is coming along nicely

Radley - he could use a rest IMO. Not because of his performances which have been ok without being good but the bloke looks like he has the world on his shoulders. I think he has lost all confidence due to him being over officiated.

Hutch - should only play when absolutely needed. He tries hard but is barely NRL standard.

Turpin - would like to see him get a bit more time. Looks zippy and threatening when he does get a chance.

Watson - been injured all year.

Robbo - he has a lot of credits in the bank but at some point this does have to come back to him as well as the players. The cold hard fact is that since 2019 we have slowly slid down to 4th, 5th and then 6th. There were definitely extenuating circumstances there, especially 2021 but the results are the results. If this season does become a complete disaster and we miss the 8 (which is in no way shape or form acceptable for this squad), I think he has enough good will to survive that as a one off but he will and should be under extreme pressure in 2024.

It is not too late to turn things around though. Souths made the 2021 GF after copping 50 twice around this time of year as an example. The next 4 weeks are D-day for this 2023 team though. We have games against 15th and 16th with a bye in between and then a return game against Penrith at SFS. If it is one thing we have done right this year it is play well at SFS.

I don't care who is injured now, if we don't bounce back strong and get 6 points against dragons/dogs (and bye) and then put in a way more respectable performance against Penrith then put a fork in us for 2023.

Rant over.

 

[Babyface O'reilly]

Aptly titled thread @Valheru.
While I was watching the disaster unfold on Friday night, I kept thinking of one of your posts where you described yourself as a glass half-full kinda guy and thought this will be severely tested here lol.

I thought we defended well at times but either by sheer skill or arse, they just piled on the points and our heads dropped. There’s some serious issues going on at the club. Judging by second half performances, lack of fitness is one because defending for 80 minutes despite bugger all possession/penalties has been our thing.

Lack of enthusiasm or motivation or whatever you wanna call it is another issue for me. Penrith have it in spades. Maybe arrogance helps but they lost some key players for this year and after an understandable slow start and with back to back premierships already under their belt, they could’ve been forgiven for a slack year. They’re back to title favourites again and with a three-peat on the cards. A lot of that is on Robbo for me. I also believe he has failed to transition the club adequately to all the new rules, especially the ‘six-again’ which is killing a us. Constantly losing assistant coaches and key player losses hasn’t helped his cause so I can forgive for while yet and let’s not forget, he still has pulling power with players. None of these problems appear to have effected Bellyache however.

Agree with all your player assessments. Would just like to add that Robbo intended at some point to make Cheese an 80 minute player but he would’ve planned that with Watson assisting in that transition so his injury hasn’t helped Smith there. He needs time and will come good, I agree.

Sitilli and Angus for me are still not 100% after their injuries/mental health issues but definitely part of the club’s future going forward.

I love Jared but he’s a 20/30 minute player when not injured these days. Use the money elsewhere. Keary showed some flashes in a well beaten side but looks down on confidence. Is it his HIAs history or is it a consequence of forwards not performing? Rads needs to see a Sports Psychologists or something because you’re right, no confidence anymore, he’s been reffed out of the game.

Question to the panel, what do you guys think about moving Teddy to 6 and Manu to 1 next year? Teddy plays like a half anyway with good passing skills and Joey has younger legs plus he’s a natural FB.

Anyway the cap and lack of juniors is going to test Robbo’s management these next couple of years.

 

[Captain Apollo]

I'm just too depressed to comment beyond this :-(

 

[Valheru]

Aptly titled thread @Valheru.
While I was watching the disaster unfold on Friday night, I kept thinking of one of your posts where you described yourself as a glass half-full kinda guy and thought this will be severely tested here lol.

I thought we defended well at times but either by sheer skill or arse, they just piled on the points and our heads dropped. There’s some serious issues going on at the club. Judging by second half performances, lack of fitness is one because defending for 80 minutes despite bugger all possession/penalties has been our thing.

Lack of enthusiasm or motivation or whatever you wanna call it is another issue for me. Penrith have it in spades. Maybe arrogance helps but they lost some key players for this year and after an understandable slow start and with back to back premierships already under their belt, they could’ve been forgiven for a slack year. They’re back to title favourites again and with a three-peat on the cards. A lot of that is on Robbo for me. I also believe he has failed to transition the club adequately to all the new rules, especially the ‘six-again’ which is killing a us. Constantly losing assistant coaches and key player losses hasn’t helped his cause so I can forgive for while yet and let’s not forget, he still has pulling power with players. None of these problems appear to have effected Bellyache however.

Agree with all your player assessments. Would just like to add that Robbo intended at some point to make Cheese an 80 minute player but he would’ve planned that with Watson assisting in that transition so his injury hasn’t helped Smith there. He needs time and will come good, I agree.

Sitilli and Angus for me are still not 100% after their injuries/mental health issues but definitely part of the club’s future going forward.

I love Jared but he’s a 20/30 minute player when not injured these days. Use the money elsewhere. Keary showed some flashes in a well beaten side but looks down on confidence. Is it his HIAs history or is it a consequence of forwards not performing? Rads needs to see a Sports Psychologists or something because you’re right, no confidence anymore, he’s been reffed out of the game.

Question to the panel, what do you guys think about moving Teddy to 6 and Manu to 1 next year? Teddy plays like a half anyway with good passing skills and Joey has younger legs plus he’s a natural FB.

Anyway the cap and lack of juniors is going to test Robbo’s management these next couple of years.

Yeah I don't think teddy to 6 and manu to 1 is the worst idea in the world. Arguably we looked our best against the cowboys when teddy took the reigns and tried to be the play maker. My one concern there is teddy defending in the line but we would be well protected by Crighton.

In regards to Keary, his strength has always been his speed and vision at the edges and he has lost the former. I dint think he is so good of a talent like a JT that he can compensate. Again, nothing but love for the guy but the club should seriously look at a tap of the shoulder because teddy/manu/walker/smith spine is the way to go.

I do think both Young and leniu are astute recruitments for next year but I would double down there by freeing up sualli and keary wages for next year and going hard to market for 2024 or 2025.

Having said all that we still have a job to do this season. A flogging like that is either a turning point or the first nail in the coffin and we will find out pretty quickly which one it is.

 

[Babyface O'reilly]

Yeah I don't think teddy to 6 and manu to 1 is the worst idea in the world. Arguably we looked our best against the cowboys when teddy took the reigns and tried to be the play maker. My one concern there is teddy defending in the line but we would be well protected by Crighton.

In regards to Keary, his strength has always been his speed and vision at the edges and he has lost the former. I dint think he is so good of a talent like a JT that he can compensate. Again, nothing but love for the guy but the club should seriously look at a tap of the shoulder because teddy/manu/walker/smith spine is the way to go.

I do think both Young and leniu are astute recruitments for next year but I would double down there by freeing up sualli and keary wages for next year and going hard to market for 2024 or 2025.

Having said all that we still have a job to do this season. A flogging like that is either a turning point or the first nail in the coffin and we will find out pretty quickly which one it is.

Yep, I’m getting 2016 vibes. Unless a massive turnaround, I don’t see Luke seeing out his contract. They’ll agree amicably and put out a statement about his HIA history, young family to think about kinda thing. For some reason Robbo will persist with Suaalii. Maybe it’s a lack of depth or hoping he leaves on good enough terms to come back after union, who the f**k knows.

 

[H.H]

Jeez it was a tough watch. I'd been on the beers all day and actually missed the first 20, but wasn't the air blue at my joint for the last 60. Admonsished a number of times by the Mrs and rightly so.

I never ever thought we were genuine contenders this year but we can still be a good top 8 side and it's clear to me that a backline of Ted, Toops, Manu, Smith, Suuali, Keary and Walker will work alot better than the alternatives we're seeing at the moment. Not perfect sure, but better.

I feel like also that we've missed alot of punch without Gus and Sitili and they still have a way to go to get back to their best. Rads, jeez I dunno...I'm his biggest fan but some of his efforts on Friday were so bad and I've never seen that defeated look on his face before. Worries me.

There is still time but they need something pretty quickly - big test for Robbo and his staff. Not giving up yet but that was horrendous to watch.