Playing the ball on the mark

[petetheileet]

I cant remember the exact point of the game it was because I think i was up to 8 or 9 by the time it occured but in the Dragons v Storm game, Saints did a brilliant kick chase and had the Storm pinned about 5m out from their tryline in the corner.

Quinn was tackled in a dominant fashion then before he played the ball jumped up and in front and out to the right a cpl of feet and played the ball.

Ive seen Quinn do this quite a few times in his career.

The referee yelled out "Anthony play your mark!" Obviously sighting the player did not play the ball on the correct mark.

The Melbourne dummy half runner sensing an opportunity, darted from dummy half and was brought down quickly by the Dragons marker.


The same referee then quickly chose to penalise the Dragons marker defence for being offside.

The Storm kicked for touch and started a new set on their 40m line

My question is.....

What the f**k happened here???

IMO that is a massive amaturish blunder. How could a referee see and acknowledge an illegal play, choose not to penalise it, then from that illegal play another event occurs, choose to penalise the defending team!


I was livid!!!

thoughts.....

 

[innsaneink]

Its a blight on the game, saw one yesterday where the Tigers were penalised for markes not square, despite the raiders player moving a metre to the right

 

[Loudstrat]

Players have moved forward of the mark for as long as I can remember. The classic was Tallis in Origin a few years ago bending his knees against a Blue (Hodgeson?) trying to advance the mark. Tallis got penalised, gave the ref a gobful, and went to the bin.

Despite my delirious joy, in the back of my mind I realised Tallis was right.

It goes also to the Slater penalty that won Melbourne the GF - and a thousand other incidents where players are infringed for indescretions in tackles from non square markers to dropped/dislodged balls to Tongue's legitimate dive off the tryline yesterday.

This has been sacrificed for the fast game - like foot faults when taking drop kicks, to players offside at the kickoff, to players defending on their goal line with their front foot a metre forward. Even the offside penalty.

These all contribute greatly to the stupid little penalties that a player can never learn from because they are rules being bent "for the good of the game"

Penalise the lot.

 

[beave]

if the player playing the ball moves in the old days, it was generally a penalty, these days its play on but 'you've shortened the 10"........................ but the markers are now offside, it's f$%king BS if you ask me. If the markers stand up at the point of the tackle but the player with the ball move left, right, forward, then the marker as long as he holds his initial point and makes a tackle on the dummy half it should be play on. Might make the player with the ball play it where he is supposed to.

 

[petetheileet]

The worst thing i think is that the ref actually saw it, acknowledged it and chose not to penalise it....we know that for certain!!

Could he not see the direct co relation between what Quinn did then the marker defence being off side???

Honestly if he cant determine that he should never ref top grade again

 

[petetheileet]

did anyone else actually see the incident i am referring to?

 

[Twizzle]

been happening for ages and whats worse is that the markers are being penalised because the ball players taking one and sometimes two steps forward, yet the markers haven't moved

much like the myth of forward passes being illegal

 

[beave]

i watched the game, but I can't remember that incident, but it's happened many times before.

 

[mean_maori_mean]

Im feelin ya mate - its probably one of the most annoying trends in the NRL this year.
we know they take any opportunity to dominate at the ruck seems this is the latests craze.
Some 'smart teams' do it more often.

NRL should study all penalties given to markers not being straight - and I bet 20-25% of these will show players clearly off the mark.

Happens even more in NYC - one of the reasons warriors NYC side are so off the ball atm.

 

[Apey]

yeah like Twizzle said it just reminds me of the forward passes out of dummy half.

Players are obviously pretty wise to it, they know currently they can get away with it. I think it's a bit rough to penalise the attacking team for slightly stepping off the mark but completely unfair that the markers get penalised for not being square when it happens.

 

[RL1908]

A dummy-half deliberately running at a tackler, genuinely trying to get to the marker position, should be included in the "he's 'milking' it category" and ignored - even if he is tackled by a "not square" marker or "didn't get to the mark" marker.

The only reason the dummy-half runs there at all is draw a penalty from the referee, instead of getting on with playing the game.

Unfortunately, there is large class of coaches and players who see this ruck battle, trying to draw penalties etc as the game, or a significant factor in the winning/losing of a game - and they are (unfortunately) right, so long as referees continue to ignore tackled players walking off the mark, and continue to reward with penalties dummy-halves who, by their own choice, run into defenders who aren't blocking them in any way.

The referees have got it right in that they ignore players trying to 'milk' penalties while they are involved in a tackle on the ground, but for some reason when the players are on their feet they fail to see 'milking' still going on, albeit in a different form.

 

[Bring it home Knights]

I could see this was going to turn into an issue a couple of years ago. The game is so quick these days that markers have trouble getting into place as it is. So what has been happening more and more is the bloke playing the ball moves forward to make it even harder for the marker to be onside and make a tackle. I heard I think it was robert finch saying that if the bloke playing the ball walks forward, then the 10 metres is shortened so they don't get an advantage.

The bloke is completely missing the point.

I reckon I could do a better job as a referees boss than that hack! The sooner he goes the better!!!

 

[Didgi]

RL1908, it is part of the smarts as a Hooker/Dummy Half to see if there is room for a scoot out of half, or to see if there is an offside player and aim for him. A penalty is only given if the offside player makes a tackle, which is their decision, and so they should be punished.

 

[petetheileet]

^^Its no coincidence that Cam Smith is the best Hooker in the game...he is brilliant at timing his runs^^

 

[Iafeta]

I cant remember the exact point of the game it was because I think i was up to 8 or 9 by the time it occured but in the Dragons v Storm game, Saints did a brilliant kick chase and had the Storm pinned about 5m out from their tryline in the corner.

Quinn was tackled in a dominant fashion then before he played the ball jumped up and in front and out to the right a cpl of feet and played the ball.

Ive seen Quinn do this quite a few times in his career.

The referee yelled out "Anthony play your mark!" Obviously sighting the player did not play the ball on the correct mark.

The Melbourne dummy half runner sensing an opportunity, darted from dummy half and was brought down quickly by the Dragons marker.


The same referee then quickly chose to penalise the Dragons marker defence for being offside.

The Storm kicked for touch and started a new set on their 40m line

My question is.....

What the f**k happened here???

IMO that is a massive amaturish blunder. How could a referee see and acknowledge an illegal play, choose not to penalise it, then from that illegal play another event occurs, choose to penalise the defending team!


I was livid!!!

thoughts.....

A similar one is when the refs are shouting "HELD HELD HELD!" and the defenders let go and the attacker moves forward a metre or to the side and instantly put the markers offside, and the dummy half gets a jump and catches the markers offside, where in actual fact they were onside.

The problem is the gumby referees are all as blind as Phil Cooley and don't really understand common sense. Common sense says when a player jumps off the mark its either deliberate and he is penalised, or its through no deliberate effort just the momentum of the ruck, and therefore its play on and the markers should be deemed onside.

 

[Iafeta]

yeah like Twizzle said it just reminds me of the forward passes out of dummy half.

Players are obviously pretty wise to it, they know currently they can get away with it. I think it's a bit rough to penalise the attacking team for slightly stepping off the mark but completely unfair that the markers get penalised for not being square when it happens.

It amazes me no end that we have two blind mice, two blind touch judges, and a group of incompetent woe was me that'll do me for downward pressure video refs who have no ability to catch dummy half's throwing it half a metre to a metre forward. Amazingly, the best dummy half's by all the ratings are the one's who are let go, yet the unrated ones get pinged. Heremaia threw one a metre backwards against the Broncos but because he had feigned to throw right and then went left quickly it looked unnatural so he got pinged for a forward pass, and then you see others who basically volley it volleyball style half a metre forward and it's deemed ok.

 

[RL1908]

RL1908, it is part of the smarts as a Hooker/Dummy Half to see if there is room for a scoot out of half, or to see if there is an offside player and aim for him. A penalty is only given if the offside player makes a tackle, which is their decision, and so they should be punished.

Except that the present rules/interpretations place such a severe onus on the tacklers that often it is physically impossible to comply, and that the attacking team often can get away with infringing to get itself in a position that gets their opponent penalised in the manner you referred to with impunity.

In doing that you're not trying to get the better of your opponent by a "fair fight" - you're doing it via resorting to tricks and appealing to the referee for help.

Yes, it's smart, but it's not football. It's not an equal battle between attack and defence - it's resorting to "working" the referee/rules to get an advantage and is, in my book, unmanly.

The one aspect of the modern game that irks me more than any other is that some teams don't "play football" until they have got their opponent's beaten physically ie. they are out on their feet (Wests Tigers and, to an extent, Canberra are excluded).

But, hey, maybe that's just me.

 

[RufusRex]

its a common play ... another one is that the person playing the ball deliberately pushes forward trying to split the two markers and earn a penalty .. Riddell a season or so was great at this ...

Refs need to harden the f**k up and penalise those who walk off the mark .. or .. just draw a line in the sand and say walking off the mark negates any offside.

 

[Iafeta]

its a common play ... another one is that the person playing the ball deliberately pushes forward trying to split the two markers and earn a penalty .. Riddell a season or so was great at this ...

Refs need to harden the f**k up and penalise those who walk off the mark .. or .. just draw a line in the sand and say walking off the mark negates any offside.

And thus use common sense. Something this group of referees are unable to do. If they applied this, this would help restrict the blokes walking off the mark because any advantage they gained would be nullified.

 

[myanonymoususername]

its a common play ... another one is that the person playing the ball deliberately pushes forward trying to split the two markers and earn a penalty .. Riddell a season or so was great at this ...

Refs need to harden the f**k up and penalise those who walk off the mark .. or .. just draw a line in the sand and say walking off the mark negates any offside.

Thats exactly what needs to happen - move off the mark and you're fair game for the markers regardless of where they are standing.