Pokies

[j5o6hn]

I tend to think that owing to the fact that the Federal Govt need the independents in the Senate to pass legislation, and that Rudd, the SA senator and Fielding have expressed opposition to Poker Machines.
That Pokies are on borrowed time,the Federal Govt has the power under the external powers to ban them,or force a large reduction or just have them in casinos,interested in what people think might happen,its happened with Smoking, its going to happen with alcohol advertising, it will be banned,then the pokies are next on the hit list, going to be interesting.

 

[Parra]

Smoking is still legal.

The industry is worth billions.

The government makes a fortune taxing them.

Everyone knows they are bad.

Good analogy - and enough proof that pokies aren't going anywhere.

 

[Eels Dude]

I tend to think that owing to the fact that the Federal Govt need the independents in the Senate to pass legislation, and that Rudd, the SA senator and Fielding have expressed opposition to Poker Machines.
That Pokies are on borrowed time,the Federal Govt has the power under the external powers to ban them,or force a large reduction or just have them in casinos,interested in what people think might happen,its happened with Smoking, its going to happen with alcohol advertising, it will be banned,then the pokies are next on the hit list, going to be interesting.

It won't happen. Pubs and clubs get too much revenue from it and the government gets a lot of tax revenue from it. I don't think they'll ever ban alcohol advertising either... unlike smoking it's responsible in moderation.

 

[bulos01]

either way NRL clubs should be looking to make money without them(pokies)
i think the NRL needs to bump up the grant to pay all payers wages. for example the NFL grant and salary cap are the same. this needs to happen in the NRL so clubs dont lose any money buying players. this also means the NRL will have more power over its players and contracts. this would make the clubs number one priority to find more external sponsorship money for players/the club and not worrying about where they are going to cut costs to keep a player. it would also mean they can spend more money on its game day experience to keep the fans happy. i think every game should be a bit more of a show rather than just the footy. dont get me wrong i love the footy but if u add a little bit more before the game and maybe at half time ppl who semi like the sport will be more willing to go to a game.

 

[Parra]

Every club is free to do as it sees fit. It is up to the club & it's members to sort out how they raise money and what to spend it on.

 

[Mr Angry]

Yes lets send it to the blackmarket, that will work.

Prohibition is so far superior to regulation.

rolly eyes etc.....

 

[Monk]

pokies are evil.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

The Feds can't force the states to ban pokies and would be shooting themselves in the foot to even try. Sports clubs would go broke, the RSL would be broke, the state govts would be broke. The only ones who wouldn't be broke would be problem gamblers but they'd probably just find another way to flush their money down the drain anyway.

 

[Mr Angry]

problem gamblers but they'd probably just find another way to flush their money down the drain anyway.

of course they would, regulation is the superior solution.

 

[bartman]

Look for more states to follow the NSW Pokies Tax lead, imo.

As long as Govt makes money from it, Feds can direct/suggest the proceeds be diverted to community expenditure that reduces the impact of gambling (In theory), keeping that independent from SA happy.

 

[boonboon]

I love pokies they are great - I repeat I LOVE POKIES (in clubs)

Why ?
- Cheap Beer
- Cheap Food
- My local Sports teams all get sponsored
- Local community groups all get sponsored
- Great socialising facilities

I HATE POKIES (In Casinos and Pubs)

Why?
They bring nothing

Pokies should only be allowed in not for profit businesses such as CLUBS

POKIES SHOULD BE BANNED FROM CASINOS (STAR CITY, CROWN I'M LOOKING AT YOU)

 

[spider]

if nick xenophon gets his way, ATM's will be removed from licensed venues which host gaming machines

this is a first step approach to eliminating the 'evil pokies'

if pokies were ever to be eradicated - the effect on employment within the hospitality industry (mainly clubs) alone would be catastrophic, let alone the snow ball effect in support that registered clubs provide to the community

if you had to go out whether it be for dinner, drinks, a punt, or whatever the occassion, if there were no cash dispensing facilities what is the first course of action you take?

take more money than you need possibly....

and what is the so called 'upside' or return for introducing such a restrictive measure - does he really think this will have a beneficial impact on the percentage of gamblers that actually have a problem

australia as a whole hosts less than 3% of the worlds gaming machines

Senator Xenophon said 250,000 Australians had a gambling problem because of poker machines

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,20797,23903642-952,00.html?from=public_rss

going off xenophons estimate that 250,000 people in australia have a gambling problem as a result of pokies, then thats around a 1.25% problem of the population

isn't there bigger issues to tackle in society

Club revenue from pokies fell from $295 million in March 2007 to $230 million in March 2008. Total turnover - the amount of money put through the machines - fell from $3.6 billion in March last year to $2.9 billion this March.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/smoking-ban-bites/2008/04/29/1209234862802.html

from the figures above, which are only for a 1 month period - how much of that revenue is attributed from the 1.25% problem gamblers

so nick wants to remove this evil burden on society - in hand with the thousands of jobs it creates not just in the service indusrty, but for the giants of the gaming industry who export their product world wide, such as Ainsworth & Aristocrat Leisure Industries

more so, how many jobs are being provided, and community support off the back of the entertainment spending from the other 98.75% 'so called' non problem gamblers?

if nick xenophon gets his way, the game of rugby league will be as good as dead - thats not merely an opinion, it would be a cold hard fact

when you look beneath the actual figure posted for each club [football grant] in the finacial statements at year end, there are so many more costs not directly attributed to running the football team

abolishing pokies would kill our team

more so - it will abolish the game we all support....

 

[Dogs Of War]

if nick xenophon gets his way, ATM's will be removed from licensed venues which host gaming machines

this is a first step approach to eliminating the 'evil pokies'

if pokies were ever to be eradicated - the effect on employment within the hospitality industry (mainly clubs) alone would be catastrophic, let alone the snow ball effect in support that registered clubs provide to the community

if you had to go out whether it be for dinner, drinks, a punt, or whatever the occassion, if there were no cash dispensing facilities what is the first course of action you take?

take more money than you need possibly....

and what is the so called 'upside' or return for introducing such a restrictive measure - does he really think this will have a beneficial impact on the percentage of gamblers that actually have a problem

For sure. Having been a "problem" gambler, I would put all my cash through the pokies on payday. If you only bring what you "think" you will spend, puts you in a much better position to think about what you are doing, as you have to leave the venue if you want to get more money. Pokies won't be eliminated, but restricting there impact is a good first step, no ATM's and only allowing smaller demonations into the machines is a great one.

australia as a whole hosts less than 3% of the worlds gaming machines

No where in the world does any other country have gambling so easily accessible by most of it's population. Sure they are places like Las Vegas, but they are gambling mecca's and by going there you know what you are in store for.

going off xenophons estimate that 250,000 people in australia have a gambling problem as a result of pokies, then thats around a 1.25% problem of the population

isn't there bigger issues to tackle in society

So if the breadwinner is putting the money through the pokies, do you believe it may affect more than that number, like their kids perhaps? Usually problem gamblers borrow money left right and centre, to feed there habit.

from the figures above, which are only for a 1 month period - how much of that revenue is attributed from the 1.25% problem gamblers

I think you would be quite amazed how much problem gamblers contribute.

so nick wants to remove this evil burden on society - in hand with the thousands of jobs it creates not just in the service indusrty, but for the giants of the gaming industry who export their product world wide, such as Ainsworth & Aristocrat Leisure Industries

What a joke. If you bring as much money as you need to go to the club with you, no different to going out elsewhere where they don't have ATM's, then there product is not going to affect as many people as adversely. This doom and gloom that taking ATM's out of pubs will affect people in the industry in utter bullsh*t. You can't take one small step and making it out as the end of the world.

more so, how many jobs are being provided, and community support off the back of the entertainment spending from the other 98.75% 'so called' non problem gamblers?

if nick xenophon gets his way, the game of rugby league will be as good as dead - thats not merely an opinion, it would be a cold hard fact

If rugby league cannot find other methods to fund football clubs than gambling, then yes they will be dead.

But it may just mean a restructure of how the clubs spend there money, and a forced opportunity to look for new revenue sources.

 

[Dogs Of War]

The only ones who wouldn't be broke would be problem gamblers but they'd probably just find another way to flush their money down the drain anyway.

Are you sure about that? Maybe some would. When I got off the pokies, I was so used to having no money, I was able to save up 60K within 2 years and bought a property. I think you may be surprised at the up side it can have on people's lives. I suppose it's no different to the impact getting off drugs can have on people's lives.

 

[bobmar28]

I tend to think that owing to the fact that the Federal Govt need the independents in the Senate to pass legislation, and that Rudd, the SA senator and Fielding have expressed opposition to Poker Machines.
That Pokies are on borrowed time,the Federal Govt has the power under the external powers to ban them,or force a large reduction or just have them in casinos,interested in what people think might happen,its happened with Smoking, its going to happen with alcohol advertising, it will be banned,then the pokies are next on the hit list, going to be interesting.

What a good idea, ban pokies and send all licensed clubs broke. You know, those same community based non profit licensed clubs that use their profits for the local community in junior sport, hospitals, schools and other worthy causes like cheap food and entertainmet.

Did I mention support for NRL teams?

Of course privately owned casinos will still have plenty of pokies for those problem gamblers to use.

 

[Scott Gourley's Lovechild]

Pokies were originally brought into clubs (everything from the "Taj Mahal" to Campsie RSL and all clubs in between - not pubs though) donkeys years ago to help support both professional sporting teams and community services. I can't remeber who, but some halfwit had the bright idea to put them in pubs as a way of revenue raising via taxation. That it did, but it increased problem gambling. An even bigger halfwit (I don't want to mention names because Morris Iemma already looks like a tossbag) decided after the Panthers Leagues scandal a few years back that introducing the Pokie Tax was a good way to make sure "excessive" amounts of revenue earned from clubs could not be embezzeled again.

The Pokie Tax does not apply to pubs, only clubs (also, the income raised on pokies is taxed twice: pokie tax + income tax). In my opinion, this should be reversed. Pubs get the pokie tax because all that goes towards is the owners new car, house, etc, meaning there is now an incentive for pubs to remove gaming machines from their premesis as they would be operating at a loss. Whereas the clubs can once again use that revenue stream to help out the community, and professional sports sides to those who it applies to.

 

[Perth Red]

WA state Govt, sports teams and pubs and clubs all survive without the evil social malignancy of pokies. Hopefully the pokie demise will make clubs become better businesses and attract more customers.

 

[spider]

For sure. Having been a "problem" gambler, I would put all my cash through the pokies on payday. If you only bring what you "think" you will spend, puts you in a much better position to think about what you are doing, as you have to leave the venue if you want to get more money.

dont you think a problem gambler would simply 'go and get more money' if needed

Pokies won't be eliminated, but restricting there impact is a good first step, no ATM's and only allowing smaller demonations into the machines is a great one.

some methods of regulation portray a positive nature in theory - such as the alcopop tax. Now didnt that reduce liquor sales......

No where in the world does any other country have gambling so easily accessible by most of it's population. Sure they are places like Las Vegas, but they are gambling mecca's and by going there you know what you are in store for.

yes, and by going there it is a chioce to do so

same as going into any gambling venue in Australia - accessability is a cop out

So if the breadwinner is putting the money through the pokies, do you believe it may affect more than that number, like their kids perhaps?

yes - and it upsets me some people cant accept responsibility for their own actions and blame the pokies for thier addiction

I think you would be quite amazed how much problem gamblers contribute

.
no, i wouldn't

What a joke. If you bring as much money as you need to go to the club with you, no different to going out elsewhere where they don't have ATM's, then there product is not going to affect as many people as adversely.

in a fluffy world that may work - in reality it wont, as be your admission, you spent all your pay on pay day

people will always find a way to feed their addiction

regulation wont adhere to correcting the problem

This doom and gloom that taking ATM's out of pubs will affect people in the industry in utter bullsh*t. You can't take one small step and making it out as the end of the world.

if the gaming industry was removed so would thousands of jobs

i dont see that as utter bullsh*t - how do you see the loss of jobs as bullsh*t?

If rugby league cannot find other methods to fund football clubs than gambling, then yes they will be dead.

i agree - so where do the clubs find the extra revenue streams without gaming?

your team's club rakes in around $60m per year off gaming

But it may just mean a restructure of how the clubs spend there money, and a forced opportunity to look for new revenue sources.

such as?

 

[Dogs Of War]

dont you think a problem gambler would simply 'go and get more money' if needed

They may, but speaking from experience, I also may not. Leaving the venue as is the best thing that can happen to a problem gambler, as it gives them time to think.

some methods of regulation portray a positive nature in theory - such as the alcopop tax. Now didnt that reduce liquor sales......

Because it limited one segement of the market, making others much more appealing like buying bottles of spirits instead. So you can't compare these scenarios at all.

same as going into any gambling venue in Australia - accessability is a cop out


yes - and it upsets me some people cant accept responsibility for their own actions and blame the pokies for thier addiction

I blame myself for getting so involved and having no self control. But the easy access to empty my wallet via the ATM in the venue contributed to the problem. Making it harder for people to go down that path, will provide fewer opportunities for people to have this happen to them. That said, there will always be the person who just can't stop, no different to a drug user, or any other sort of addict.

in a fluffy world that may work - in reality it wont, as be your admission, you spent all your pay on pay day

people will always find a way to feed their addiction

You doubt this? There are plenty of studies that suggest it will. Many pubs in the early days didn't have ATM's, and it soon became apparent that gamblers flocked to those that did. Coincident? I think not.

regulation wont adhere to correcting the problem
if the gaming industry was removed so would thousands of jobs
i dont see that as utter bullsh*t - how do you see the loss of jobs as bullsh*t?

Oh, so thousands of jobs built of the misery of others should be justified. Maybe we should introduce slavery as well.

Really, I haven't said get rid of them, I have said minimise there impact. Getting rid of ATM's and making the machines only accept smaller denominations won't kill the industry, but it will make it harder for that industry to abuse the weakest people. I don't see how thats a bad thing.

i agree - so where do the clubs find the extra revenue streams without gaming?

your team's club rakes in around $60m per year off gaming

Well, as lot of the clubs started to diversify as soon as the gambling taxes came in, with building hotels, and units etc to have alternate income streams that the government can;t tax twice. As for the game, better marketing to make the games an event could help with crowds, clubs rather than looking after themselves, should be pushing for an automonous body to run the game, for the games sake. I am sure all football clubs can look to models run in other countries to see how they survive without poker machine money like the NFL, NBA clubs do is the US.

 

[spider]

Leaving the venue as is the best thing that can happen to a problem gambler, as it gives them time to think.

why dont they think before as opposed to after?

imo, thats a cop out reflective of the addiction

Because it limited one segement of the market, making others much more appealing like buying bottles of spirits instead. So you can't compare these scenarios at all.

but i did compare them - as i would think problem gamblers may choose to attend a venue that has an off premise ATM in close proximity

my point was that there are ways around regulation - as the alcopops tax has proved

Oh, so thousands of jobs built of the misery of others should be justified. Maybe we should introduce slavery as well.

what about the 98.75% of the population that jusitify these jobs?

why regulate even further than current measures for such a small percentage that are deemed problem gamblers?

actions > accountability > oneself

society will always have criminals, drug addicts, gamblers, etc - it is part of the world we live in

Really, I haven't said get rid of them, I have said minimise there impact. Getting rid of ATM's and making the machines only accept smaller denominations won't kill the industry, but it will make it harder for that industry to abuse the weakest people. I don't see how thats a bad thing.

the state government has done its best to this point in time to hurt the industry - as figures support

and this is now overflowing into the finances granted to football clubs

my intial aim was at xenophon, and as i mentioned its his first point plan to eradicating them

Well, as lot of the clubs started to diversify as soon as the gambling taxes came in, with building hotels, and units etc to have alternate income streams that the government can;t tax twice

the whole state suffered a massive downtown in revenue in all clubs

only the strongest clubs continue to grow - such as the dogs, revesby workers, mounties, etc

club amalgamations is at an all time high due to clubs not being able to service their debt and forced to close their doors

even panthers had to apply for a delayed payment on their gaming tax this year - and that is by no means a small licensed club

As for the game, better marketing to make the games an event could help with crowds, clubs rather than looking after themselves, should be pushing for an automonous body to run the game, for the games sake. I am sure all football clubs can look to models run in other countries to see how they survive without poker machine money like the NFL, NBA clubs do is the US.

im sure they can, but will it be too late by the time they go down that path