Positional changes over origin

[betcats]

Over Moylan?!

He's playing well behind an excellent team , seriously if you could only have Moylan or Coote you'd choose Coote?

We have the same attacking problems NSW do , we need Moylan's attacking skills.

There is very little argument for Coote over Moylan, Moylan is better in every aspect of the game besides defence and support play. Coote is playing for the best team in the comp and is benefiting from the extra time and space this gives him and despite this and playing double the amount of minutes as Moylan he is just ahead of Moylan for try assists, tries etc and Moylan is easily making more metres, some people just don't understand context imo.

 

[franklin2323]

We need a FB that plays like a half to ensure we score points. Bird/Peachey and Cartwright on the bench is also a huge help to getting our attack. I don't think Coote offers the same without what I think is the best pack in the game

 

[billypilgrimnz]

Over Moylan?!

He's playing well behind an excellent team , seriously if you could only have Moylan or Coote you'd choose Coote?

Yes.

 

[billypilgrimnz]

There is very little argument for Coote over Moylan, Moylan is better in every aspect of the game besides defence and support play. .

i.e., two of the most important attributes of a fullback. And Coote is a better kicker.

 

[betcats]

If it isn't the best pack it is a very close 2nd. Taumolololololo is the best forward in the game and you add to that the two Australian props plus some very solid fillers like Cooper and Lowe. They lack a bit of skill compared to some other packs but with JT, Morgan, Coote and Granville there all they need to do is the la the platform for those guys to do their thing.

Moylans vision and ball playing is just on another level to Coote imo. Coote has him for support play and defence but positionally, and fielding kicks they are equal. Moylan runs for more metres and has better size, probably better speed(neither are quick for a fb) and better footwork.

 

[betcats]

i.e., two of the most important attributes of a fullback. And Coote is a better kicker.

The way FBs play now they are not the most important things and Coote is missing tackles at almost the same rate as Moylan, by defence I mean tackling abilty, postionally and under the highball I cant split them at all they are both impeccable. Moylans short kicking game is better imo.

Moylan just offers so much more with the ball, a FBs ability to ball play and create is easily one of the most important things for them now otherwise Dugan would be a lock for not only the NSW FB spot but the roos as well, but coaches want more out of FBs now, Penrith would be much worse off with Coote, our bility tp score tries would drop off dramatically.

Its also worth noting Moylan is performing with the pressure of being a young captain after a long lay off, he really is a class above Coote.

 

[billypilgrimnz]

Coote: 1.7 missed tackles per game
Moylan: 2.5

Kicking meters per game:
Coote: 128.4
Moylan: 32.2

Also, you can't argue on one hand that Coote benefits from a big dominant pack and then claim that Moylan's higher average running meters per game puts him ahead of Coote, because the two things are linked, aren't they? Why would Coote need to run the ball more if his pack is so dominant?

Interestingly, if you ONLY look at kick return meters, they are almost identical:
Coote: 35.6
Moylan: 34.8

 

[betcats]

Moylan has made 56 tackles this year and missed 15.Coote has made 64 and missed 17. They are both missing 26 percent of their tackles, Cootes decimals are slightly less but both 26 percent so basically identical, its a wash.

Cootes defence is obviously being tested a lot less than Moylan considering who they are playing for and how those teams are travelling.

I could argue that playing against the cowboys dominant pack opposing teams are kicking with worse field position and less time therefore making kick returns easier.

 

[billypilgrimnz]

I think Moylan had better stats for try assists and line break assists last year, though as a big fan of context, you'll no doubt note that Coote was in a team with a completely dominant half, whereas Moylan was asked to do a lot of the creative work for a team that had the worst point scoring record in the comp.

Moylan also made fewer missed tackles last year, but he looks much more tentative this year for some reason.

 

[betcats]

JT is obviously a much better half than Soward but is he really on the ball a lot more that Soward? We can talk about last year if you want but that suits my argument more imo, Moylan was 1st or 2nd in the Dally M race when he did that ankle.

I don't think the fact that Moylan is being asked to do more of the creating hurts me in this context, Moylan is coming up more assists with less attacking opportunities and he is certainly being set up by lesser quality players.

 

[maple_69]

Penrith sure have a knack for producing quality full backs that's all I'll say. Edwards on the way and Naden has a bucket load of talent if he can turn it around.

I think Coote and Moylan are comparable at the moment. Coote fits into the Cows juggernaut perfectly and Moylan leads our team really well. I think Moylan will end up the better player as Penriths stocks rise. Keep in mind he has been in grade a few years less than Coote.

 

[billypilgrimnz]

I didn't rate Coote much when he was here, but he has come on leaps and bounds at the Cowboys. I'm not arguing Moylan can't be better, just that, right now, I would select Coote over him for Origin.

 

[betcats]

With all due respect with Steve Georgallis I don't think he is that good. Every week the teams lineup is changing and not because of injuires. Atleast try them out for a couple weeks, every week the spine changes, it seems they aren't being given much of a chance. .

 

[Pomoz]

Moylans vision and ball playing is just on another level to Coote imo.

I have to agree with this. It is why he will be a better 5/8th than a fullback. Kicking is the area he needs to improve on to be a rep level 5/8th. His defence isn't Fittler class, but it's better than Maloney, Soward and quite another number of halves who play there. Defence never stopped Lockyer from influencing games.

Coote has him for support play and defence

Agree, Coote does lots of work sniffing around for offloads and he is fearless in defence (as is Moylan) but seems to be more effective in defence than Moylan. Ask Willie Mason about that.

Coote ...positionally, and fielding kicks they are equal.

I have watched every game Moylan has played and every game Coote has played for the Panthers and quite a few for the Cowboys. I don't think that anybody could objectively say that Moylan is better or equal at catching a ball than Coote. Coote is one of the best there is at fielding kicks, he is so agile and has brilliant hand eye co-ordination. If the ball goes in the air for a bomb and your life depended on it, who would you rather have catching it for you?

Have you forgotten the season Coote had scoring tries from Luke Walsh kicks. Catching bombs from under the nose of opposition fullbacks like a thief in the night? Moylan just can't do that to the same effect and to be fair, very few can. I think a few people have very short memories of how good Coote was until he was crippled with a run of injuries. The Cowboys pack has nothing to do with how good Coote is playing. He was just as good playing for a limp wristed Panthers that struggled with rubbish halves (Burns and Walsh were just awful). The dominant pack don't catch balls, or make last ditch tackles or do kick returns.

Right now and of course this is all subjective, I think Coote is a better fullback than Moylan. What Moylan does differently is step in as a false number 7 or 6 and start ball playing and creating space. Coote is nowhere near as effective at this, but then he doesn't need to be at the Cowboys with JT and Morgan tearing it up.

Where it gets interesting is what is most valuable to the Panthers right now? With pedestrian halves, Moylan is invaluable. With JT and Morgan, Coote is a better bet, although any team would love such a good ball player.

What about NSW? To say NSW halves are average is being unkind to average players. I thought about this. Would any NSW half make the QLD team. Answer no. Would any NSW half make the QLD bench? Answer no. Morgan, DCE, Milford and Hunt are all better than anything NSW has produced for the last 10 years (what is wrong with NSW coaching is another question for a different debate, but something is clearly amiss).

Given the truly awful state of NSW halves, Moylan's ability to be a false 6 or 7 suddenly becomes a massive plus. Maybe with Moylan playing, NSW can create something and score a try (provided he can get the ball off Gallen). NSW kick return metres will plummet (Dugan is the best at this. Full stop. Daylight second) but NSW might win by actually scoring more points through skill, rather than a grinding dirge of Lozza ball.

I would also be happy if Coote was picked ahead of Dugan for the same reason. Less kick return metres, but more creativity and boy do we need it.

 

[mxlegend99]

I think Moylan had better stats for try assists and line break assists last year, though as a big fan of context, you'll no doubt note that Coote was in a team with a completely dominant half, whereas Moylan was asked to do a lot of the creative work for a team that had the worst point scoring record in the comp.

Moylan also made fewer missed tackles last year, but he looks much more tentative this year for some reason.

Coming back from almost a year out of the game and not long ago had a serious back injury. I expected him to be barely better than Will Smith for his first half a dozen games or so. He will only improve as the season goes on. Unless he gets injured again.

Coote is at his peak for mine.

 

[betcats]

I have to agree with this. It is why he will be a better 5/8th than a fullback. Kicking is the area he needs to improve on to be a rep level 5/8th. His defence isn't Fittler class, but it's better than Maloney, Soward and quite another number of halves who play there. Defence never stopped Lockyer from influencing games.

Agree, Coote does lots of work sniffing around for offloads and he is fearless in defence (as is Moylan) but seems to be more effective in defence than Moylan. Ask Willie Mason about that.

I have watched every game Moylan has played and every game Coote has played for the Panthers and quite a few for the Cowboys. I don't think that anybody could objectively say that Moylan is better or equal at catching a ball than Coote. Coote is one of the best there is at fielding kicks, he is so agile and has brilliant hand eye co-ordination. If the ball goes in the air for a bomb and your life depended on it, who would you rather have catching it for you?

Have you forgotten the season Coote had scoring tries from Luke Walsh kicks. Catching bombs from under the nose of opposition fullbacks like a thief in the night? Moylan just can't do that to the same effect and to be fair, very few can. I think a few people have very short memories of how good Coote was until he was crippled with a run of injuries. The Cowboys pack has nothing to do with how good Coote is playing. He was just as good playing for a limp wristed Panthers that struggled with rubbish halves (Burns and Walsh were just awful). The dominant pack don't catch balls, or make last ditch tackles or do kick returns.

Right now and of course this is all subjective, I think Coote is a better fullback than Moylan. What Moylan does differently is step in as a false number 7 or 6 and start ball playing and creating space. Coote is nowhere near as effective at this, but then he doesn't need to be at the Cowboys with JT and Morgan tearing it up.

Where it gets interesting is what is most valuable to the Panthers right now? With pedestrian halves, Moylan is invaluable. With JT and Morgan, Coote is a better bet, although any team would love such a good ball player.

What about NSW? To say NSW halves are average is being unkind to average players. I thought about this. Would any NSW half make the QLD team. Answer no. Would any NSW half make the QLD bench? Answer no. Morgan, DCE, Milford and Hunt are all better than anything NSW has produced for the last 10 years (what is wrong with NSW coaching is another question for a different debate, but something is clearly amiss).

Given the truly awful state of NSW halves, Moylan's ability to be a false 6 or 7 suddenly becomes a massive plus. Maybe with Moylan playing, NSW can create something and score a try (provided he can get the ball off Gallen). NSW kick return metres will plummet (Dugan is the best at this. Full stop. Daylight second) but NSW might win by actually scoring more points through skill, rather than a grinding dirge of Lozza ball.

I would also be happy if Coote was picked ahead of Dugan for the same reason. Less kick return metres, but more creativity and boy do we need it.

Of course playing behind a dominant pack helps Coote, you don't think playing for the best team in the comp behind the best forward pack helps him score and create tries and linebreaks? come off it. It also means he is being asked to do a lot less defence then Moylan and is fresher to come up with the attacking plays that he does, that dominant pack means there is a lot more pressure on opposition kickers and they would be kicking from a worse position which in turn makes his catching and returning of those kicks easier, it helps a lot mate playing in that team. As for as making tackles by the eye Coote is better but they are missing tackles at exactly the same rate so there isn't much difference, and again Coote is doing less of it therefore is fresher when he is called to tackle. Id say most people who post here watch every panthers game mate. Moylan certainly doesn't have the knack for chasing down attacking kicks but defending them I cant split them. Moylan positionally is as good as it gets and he doesn't drop them, add to that he is bigger and has a better leap from what we have seen and it think it was a fair comment.

 

[herbert henry1908]

i.e., two of the most important attributes of a fullback. And Coote is a better kicker.

Attributes need to suit a team more than a position.

Moylan is the better fit for the panthers and I dare say for NSW too.

If we had a megastar halfback I could well change my mind.

 

[age.s]

I don't buy this suggestion that Coote was fantastic when he was with us. He was ok. Good at fielding/attacking kicks, good attitude and support play but slow and weak running the ball and not really that involved with ball playing. Most people wanted Flash at the back and rightly so.

 

[betcats]

I don't buy this suggestion that Coote was fantastic when he was with us. He was ok. Good at fielding/attacking kicks, good attitude and support play but slow and weak running the ball and not really that involved with ball playing. Most people wanted Flash at the back and rightly so.

Yeah I was thinking the same but I didn't really have much to argue it with. He was certainly not close to the form he is in now. Even rookie Moylan was more favoured then Coote was when they overlapped here.

He goes to the best team in the comp and hits career best form but of course playing for the best team does not have anything to do with that form, Really?? That is just silly. He certainly deserves credit for the improvement he has shown im not trying to take that away from him but he his hardly the first player to perform better in a great team, most players will.

 

[mxlegend99]

Coote hasn't looked that safe the past 2 weeks at the back. he had moments like that for us too.