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Rd15: Parra v Bulldogs GAME DAY thread @ BankWest Stadium 20/6/21

Joshuatheeel

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
18,128
I doubt Dunster is going to be dropped / replaced next week.

But thought Russell looked better then Dunster. Russell rucked it out better, and looks potentially more of a “x factor” with his speed.

Definitely gives BA some options
 

Glenneel

Bench
Messages
2,652
you do realise its a completely different scenario - Nrown going to the line vs Drown/Moses going to the line

we all bitch and moan about Nrown running settlers .... but it probably helps create these sort of opportunities cos the defense just think he won't pass and come in on him .... then he pulls a rabbit out and passes instead and cos a defender came in on him there's a gap

the halves running to the line is different - the defenders will hold off waiting for the half to show his hand
Still don't think we support the ball carrier enough to give them options to pass to. Except perhaps RCG all our players have a pass/offload in them and should have support players pushing up on both sides if nothing else than to put the defence into two minds. Thought Gutho was poor in parts and hogged the ball rather than passing. Finally he came good later in the game.

Our first half was very poor and if we play like that against the good sides we'll get flogged. Oh wait, what, we already did against Souths and Manly.
 

Obscene Assassin

First Grade
Messages
5,446
We don't even have set moves from a scrum. Most sides will have their half feed the ball and then run around to provide an extra man.

Not necessarily true. What set moves can you do on a midfield scrum, which most teams take? A lot of teams have been doing a move where the second rower holds the ball in the scrum and the player who fed the scrum jumps out to first receiver. But most teams are doing that at some point in a game so it isn't original. Yesterday on one scrum we stacked our left side with 3 playmakers and I imagine if Sivo was there he would've scored. We also had the shape of centre, winger, half in 2020 on attacking scrums. And yesterday we put a kick in behind a scrum.

Outside of these there aren't too many shapes you can throw from midfield scrums other than say Mitchell Moses positioning himself directly behind the scrum and then choosing which side to play at the last moment.

If we were going to do a scrum play I think we could play the long game. Constantly choose the 20m line so you have a big open side play, then there may be a possibility of catching out a lazy half on the short side with a 2 on 1 with the winger. But scrums are few and far between and a "scrum play" is only 1 tackle, it's probably just easier to take the settler, hope for a quick play the ball and have the halves attack from that.
 

84 Baby

Referee
Messages
21,251
Still don't think we support the ball carrier enough to give them options to pass to. Except perhaps RCG all our players have a pass/offload in them and should have support players pushing up on both sides if nothing else than to put the defence into two minds. Thought Gutho was poor in parts and hogged the ball rather than passing. Finally he came good later in the game.

Our first half was very poor and if we play like that against the good sides we'll get flogged. Oh wait, what, we already did against Souths and Manly.
I’d say our first half was more like the Dragons loss, and due to the opposite of what you criticised Gutho for. If you fling the ball around in the wet like we did, you are more likely to drop it. And if you continually hand the ball over, the opposition will make you pay.
Same thing happened through the middle of Wigers/Scum game
 

84 Baby

Referee
Messages
21,251
Not necessarily true. What set moves can you do on a midfield scrum, which most teams take? A lot of teams have been doing a move where the second rower holds the ball in the scrum and the player who fed the scrum jumps out to first receiver. But most teams are doing that at some point in a game so it isn't original. Yesterday on one scrum we stacked our left side with 3 playmakers and I imagine if Sivo was there he would've scored. We also had the shape of centre, winger, half in 2020 on attacking scrums. And yesterday we put a kick in behind a scrum.

Outside of these there aren't too many shapes you can throw from midfield scrums other than say Mitchell Moses positioning himself directly behind the scrum and then choosing which side to play at the last moment.

If we were going to do a scrum play I think we could play the long game. Constantly choose the 20m line so you have a big open side play, then there may be a possibility of catching out a lazy half on the short side with a 2 on 1 with the winger. But scrums are few and far between and a "scrum play" is only 1 tackle, it's probably just easier to take the settler, hope for a quick play the ball and have the halves attack from that.
I reckon we should run a play at midfield where all 7 “backs” are on one side of field, with Moses/Waqa at lock.
If the opposition set up normally, we go “open” side with a 7 on 4 advantage.
If they follow our setup, the lock scarpers blind side for the tryline.
 

crocodile

Bench
Messages
2,726
you do realise its a completely different scenario - Nrown going to the line vs Drown/Moses going to the line

we all bitch and moan about Nrown running settlers .... but it probably helps create these sort of opportunities cos the defense just think he won't pass and come in on him .... then he pulls a rabbit out and passes instead and cos a defender came in on him there's a gap

the halves running to the line is different - the defenders will hold off waiting for the half to show his hand
I like Nathan's settlers. There a part of our game. He comes from a long windup and it doesn't matter if the opponents see it coming. He takes out at least 4 defenders every time. The importance comes with the plays that follow with a scattered defence. Occasionally he'll pop an offload but they're never speculators in the Feliti Mateo mould.
 

TheRam

First Grade
Messages
9,932
Matterson provides 80 minutes of quality every week. He isn't flashy like Papali'i, but consistent and involved like Cordner. His tackle efficiency is over 96% ffs. That's amazing for an edge player. His form is down this year but last year he was one of the best forwards in the game.

But this year Papali'i has been phenomenal. Just behind David Fifita.

Comparing him to Cordner is ridiculous. He has never been as damaging as Cordner when Cordner was fit. Cordner knew how to run lines and then set up the next play like nobodies business.

I like Matterson, he is a good defender and does the occasional good thing in attack, but he is average otherwise. Sure he has the skill and size to trouble the opposition, but rarely ever uses it. Now is this a consequence of his concussions, who knows, but when was the last time we ever saw him run onto the ball at speed and with venom over the top of the opposition or through a whole running a great line?

I can't recall it. But in my book that is what a quality backrower should be doing each week, not just defend real well. There are two sides to the game mate and you always seem to miss the spectacular stuff. You're one of these merkins that only sees the boring grinding stuff that we can all see, but only dumb dumbs think that no one else can and keeps trying to point them out so people don't think you are one of those dumb dumbs.

He is very limited in attack from a major presence point of view and all he does are hit up type of runs that aren't all that threatening. He needs to show his skills and learn how to set himself up for that great line run that quality backrowers are renowned for. He at the moment is not known for that type of game at all. He is playing a solid but very containable type of game at the moment. If he wants to improve he needs to learn how to run on to the ball properly at speed and and the right line for the occasion. At the moment he is keeping a lot of his gun powder dry and barely firing off a shot. I think he has it in him, but will he ever let it out?
 

TheRam

First Grade
Messages
9,932
Every game we have won this year has been average of +20 except when we beat storm.


Of course we have a lot of quality players and a powerfully built, big mobile pack. We beat up on all the little kiddies in the playground and take their lunch money and drinks. We are the best.

King bully is what we are, running a muck and smiling like a split melon each week surveying our conquered fertile land from the top of the hill. Kings of our domain and proud. Until that is, we bump into a fighter who knows how to throw a few fast and furious combos before we even saw them coming. Then it's lights out Francine, you little biatch!!
 

lingard

Coach
Messages
10,134
Comparing him to Cordner is ridiculous. He has never been as damaging as Cordner when Cordner was fit. Cordner knew how to run lines and then set up the next play like nobodies business.

I like Matterson, he is a good defender and does the occasional good thing in attack, but he is average otherwise. Sure he has the skill and size to trouble the opposition, but rarely ever uses it. Now is this a consequence of his concussions, who knows, but when was the last time we ever saw him run onto the ball at speed and with venom over the top of the opposition or through a whole running a great line?

I can't recall it. But in my book that is what a quality backrower should be doing each week, not just defend real well. There are two sides to the game mate and you always seem to miss the spectacular stuff. You're one of these merkins that only sees the boring grinding stuff that we can all see, but only dumb dumbs think that no one else can and keeps trying to point them out so people don't think you are one of those dumb dumbs.

He is very limited in attack from a major presence point of view and all he does are hit up type of runs that aren't all that threatening. He needs to show his skills and learn how to set himself up for that great line run that quality backrowers are renowned for. He at the moment is not known for that type of game at all. He is playing a solid but very containable type of game at the moment. If he wants to improve he needs to learn how to run on to the ball properly at speed and and the right line for the occasion. At the moment he is keeping a lot of his gun powder dry and barely firing off a shot. I think he has it in him, but will he ever let it out?
I seriously think that Matterson is having all that stuff coached out of him. Arthur wants a power game from his forwards. Lane has a lot of skill (running lines, off-loading, etc) but is being used as a middle forward whose job is to run straight into the opposition forwards. Same with Niuikorai. We saw when he played centre that he has ability to pass and off-load; but now he's back in the forwards, it's just robotic hit-ups. Nathan Brown is fast and mobile, but once again, it's mainly charging runs into the opposition, with the occasional pass. It seems that Arthur wants only one or two forwards to be creative runners (Papalii and sometimes N Brown) and the rest are robotic prop forwards. Unfortunately, that means players like Matterson and Lane and Niuikorai don't get to show their skills that often. Personally, I would love to see what Shane Flannagan could do with this team.
 

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
60,220
Of course we have a lot of quality players and a powerfully built, big mobile pack. We beat up on all the little kiddies in the playground and take their lunch money and drinks. We are the best.

King bully is what we are, running a muck and smiling like a split melon each week surveying our conquered fertile land from the top of the hill. Kings of our domain and proud. Until that is, we bump into a fighter who knows how to throw a few fast and furious combos before we even saw them coming. Then it's lights out Francine, you little biatch!!
Mate in 2018 we were embarrassed wooden spoon winners. From Round 1 2019 we have racked up 60 games in a row as a Top 5 team. Since Round 1 2020, we are 35 games in a row as a top 4 side.

Each year from 2019 we have improved and without a doubt we are a better side in 2021 than 2019/20.

So you can bitch and moan about why we are not THE top side at the moment, but we are edging closer every week. Indeed we beat (the grand finalists) Penrith last year and Storm this year. Our away record was previously atrocious, now that is a thing of the past. Our depth was poor, and now we have it in spades.

Anyone in NRL world who does not take us seriously and talks us down has rocks in their heads. Any supporter who posts sarcastic dribble against our club needs to learn how to slow down and smell the roses. </rant>
 

eels_fan

Bench
Messages
4,934
Matto was solid as he generally is, but looking at stats only made 47m for 6 runs. That’s pretty poor for near 60m on the field. 1 run for every 10mins on the field.
 

lingard

Coach
Messages
10,134
Arthur cannot do it all. We need to change the assistant coaches to change things up to go to the next level. Even BA improved when O’Neill came on board and took the load off him in relation to recruitment/retention.

No reason not to take someone like Adam O’Brien if he is sacked from Newcastle or Jason Taylor who is still coaching the North Sydney Bears as assistants.

If we go out early in the semis like previous years I think it is an inevitability before sacking BA. He deserves to see out the end of his contract. This year has been the best since 2005.
If we sacked B.A, what realistic options are available? Right now, Shane Flannagan is itching to coach again. If we wait too long, he'll be taken by someone else and we'll be forced to take a gamble on a rookie coach.
 

lingard

Coach
Messages
10,134
Mate in 2018 we were embarrassed wooden spoon winners. From Round 1 2019 we have racked up 60 games in a row as a Top 5 team. Since Round 1 2020, we are 35 games in a row as a top 4 side.

Each year from 2019 we have improved and without a doubt we are a better side in 2021 than 2019/20.

So you can bitch and moan about why we are not THE top side at the moment, but we are edging closer every week. Indeed we beat Penrith last year and Storm this year. Our away record was previously atrocious, now that is a thing of the past. Our depth was poor, and now we have it in spades.

Anyone in NRL world who does not take us seriously and talks us down has rocks in their heads. Any supporter who posts sarcastic dribble against our club needs to learn how to slow down and smell the roses. </rant>
Trouble is that we have, right now, the best squad we've had in a very long time. We have a window of opportunity to win a premiership that might not remain open for much longer. And it appears obvious (to me) that we don't have the coaching staff (or the coaching philosophy) to make the most of this squad to take us to the Grand Final. I think right now (as in next year) would be an ideal time for a new coach to step in and take over while our salary-cap controlled window is still open.
 

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
60,220
I would love to see what Shane Flannagan could do with this team.
Flanno's success came whilst the Sharks were breaching the cap every year between 2013 and 2017. Somehow the club's 2016 premiership victory was declared by the NRL as compliant. 🧐


He was assistant to McGregor and had no impact.

He was suspended in 2014 for his peptide scandal. Then he was deregistered for still working with the club whilst suspended.


Is he really someone we want at the club ? I thought we were past the Spagnolo years ?
 
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