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Rd16: Eels v Rabbits GAME DAY THREAD @ Accor Stadium 2/7/22

Gary Gutful

Immortal
Messages
46,824
Why should the underdogs even show up if they shouldn’t be expected to win during finals matches?
OK, now you are just being silly.

I'm merely pointing out the facts - It doesn't happen that often for ANY team.

Sure, it sucks that we haven't been able to do it. But if it doesn't happen often for others why expect it as a fan? I hope rather than expect.

The one thing I do expect though is that as underdogs they believe they can defy the odds and that they play as well as they can. If they don't do that then I'm all for shit bagging them.
 

Gary Gutful

Immortal
Messages
46,824
We’re having two different conversations then. My definition of superstar is a player who is amongst the best in their position. For example Tapine isn’t a household name but he is amongst the best players in his position. If you have a player like him in your side then he would be a large contributor to any potential finals success. I think we have a few players like that in our side who I listed.
So what do we call the best dozen players in the game if the word "superstar" now applies to at least 50 players?
 

lucablight

Bench
Messages
4,999
Mate it is the same club, with the same advantages and disadvantages in recruitment/retention of players. Winning five or six games in a season happens due to something lacking in a club. Once could be blamed on an injury toll, but when it occurs three times in seven years you need to accept you're dealing with a club at a disadvantage in the player (and probably coaching) market.

Well no because if they're not doing it consistently it is probably due to a stroke of good luck.
How many other clubs have won three wooden spoons since 2012?
Or maybe the people in charge are making poor decisions with the resources they have available rather than a lack of resources? Some of the recruitment decisions during the Kearney years were incredulous. Did Penrith suddenly become better resourced than us or did the people in charge start making better decisions?
 

lucablight

Bench
Messages
4,999
OK, now you are just being silly.

I'm merely pointing out the facts - It doesn't happen that often for ANY team.

Sure, it sucks that we haven't been able to do it. But if it doesn't happen often for others why expect it as a fan? I hope rather than expect.

The one thing I do expect though is that as underdogs they believe they can defy the odds and that they play as well as they can. If they don't do that then I'm all for shit bagging them.
Correct me if I’m strawmanning you but you seem to be saying that if you’re not a favourite going into a finals match then it should be considered an acceptable loss. I think if you continually get to the finals and can’t jag a win that you shouldn’t then no I don’t think that’s satisfactory and something we should be content with.
So what do we call the best dozen players in the game if the word "superstar" now applies to at least 50 players?
You can use whatever word you want. The implication seems to be that our best players aren’t good enough to take us further than we’ve been. I don’t agree. As I said if Koroisau makes origin it’s like “woah Penrith has 7 origin players how can we compare?!” but if we get an origin player into the side it’s like lol they don’t count. Why the double standards to talk down our team?
 
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40,232
Didn't we have 3 chosen in the first origin, which is the best reflection because it's based on a number of games up to that point? That's over 1/6th of the side.
 

Gary Gutful

Immortal
Messages
46,824
Correct me if I’m strawmanning you but you seem to be saying that if you’re not a favourite going into a finals match then it should be considered an acceptable loss. I think if you continually get to the finals and can’t jag a win that you shouldn’t then no I don’t think that’s satisfactory and something we should be content with.
I judge each performance based on whether I think they have played well against a better side. Like I said earlier, I wasn't particularly happy with the Souths performance. I wouldn't call our second half fade out acceptable. We had a great chance to win that game against the favourites.

We've played well against a red hot Storm side a couple of times and were a bees dick away from beating Penrith last year. I was disappointed in the results but not unhappy.

We've also had our arse handed to us by the Storm which wasn't acceptable. We should have been more competitive in that game.

You can use whatever word you want. The implication seems to be that our best players aren’t good enough to take us further than we’ve been. I don’t agree. As I said if Koroisau makes origin it’s like “woah Penrith has 7 origin players how can we compare?!” but if we get an origin player into the side it’s like lol they don’t count. Why the double standards to talk down our team?
Superstarrier?

A lot of our Origin players are fringe and haven't cemented a position. That is why I examined total games experience. What it showed is that its irrefutable that our squad isn't quite up there with the best teams. We lack depth and experience. But, hey we are still pretty f**ken good!

However, I 100% agree that the squad is good enough to do more than what we've been showing. Particularly this year. Maybe another coach can do a better job with them but we'll never know because the squad will look very different under a new coach.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
73,463
We’re having two different conversations then. My definition of superstar is a player who is amongst the best in their position. For example Tapine isn’t a household name but he is amongst the best players in his position. If you have a player like him in your side then he would be a large contributor to any potential finals success. I think we have a few players like that in our side who I listed.
Tapine is no Haas or Taumalolo. He is in the RCG class.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
73,463
Or maybe the people in charge are making poor decisions with the resources they have available rather than a lack of resources? Some of the recruitment decisions during the Kearney years were incredulous. Did Penrith suddenly become better resourced than us or did the people in charge start making better decisions?
What do you mean “suddenly”? They have won three premierships since our last, and their junior reps have been the best in Sydney for well over a decade. How many wooden spoons have they won?
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
73,463
As I said if Koroisau makes origin it’s like “woah Penrith has 7 origin players how can we compare?!” but if we get an origin player into the side it’s like lol they don’t count. Why the double standards to talk down our team?
Koroisau, with one Origin game, is comparable to Matterson (one game) or even RCG (two). Who in our team is comparable to Cleary? How many do we have in the same class as Yeo or To’o? Not all Origin players are equal. A current Origin player with a dozen games under his belt doesn’t compare to a bloke who played two or three games back in the day.
 

hineyrulz

Post Whore
Messages
134,164
Here is my take:

I think we have a well balanced squad. Sure there are no superstars, but we have proved we can mix it with the best.

What is holding us back from consistently being a top 4 side? I don't think we are well drilled enough. We don't run enough shapes or set moves. Our attack is purely based on offloads or cross kicks. Our hooker cannot engage the markers consistently.

In defence we have obvious deficiencies that have been apparent for several seasons. We rarely put the tackled player on their back. We often have tacklers left on the ground. Of course we are always overlapped allowing wingers to score easy tries.

We also are low on footy smarts. Last night for example, it took us three or four dropouts before Gutho tried to kick low towards the sideline. It was a wet, soggy ground. Hello!

Last, but not least, we are mentally weak.

Pretty much all of the above is on the coaching staff.
But but but lack of resources!!!
 

hineyrulz

Post Whore
Messages
134,164
By my count, twice this season, Arthur has mentioned that we just didn't turn up - getting the team to turn up is something he is responsible for, even if the actual task is delegated to one of his assistants.

Putting structures, and procedures, in place, to develop players - he has arguably done well here, as Gutherson, Brown, Matterson have all played Origin under his tenure, and Mahoney has been almost there.

Developing tactics, and strategies, to win games - this is 50-50; we too often look clueless in both attack, and defence, and things don't change. The players have their roles to play in this, too - but either he tells them to do something, and they don't, or he tells them to do something, and they cant; either way, he's the boss, so the team not performing is on his shoulders.

Great bloke - had a chat, or two, with him, and he is as passionate as they come.

But what he is doing isn't working.

I also am puzzled by his dumping of Brown; though he is out of form, his playstyle is the living embodiment of chasing the collision.

I don't understand why he gets dropped, but players with poor attitudes like Kaufusi, and Lane, get to keep their jobs.

Not many players have been in great form, so dropping Brown for performance issues seems harsh.

Attitude-wise, Brown has always given 100% - he never shirks tough work, and gives his all.

If the demotion was to make a statement, I believe the wrong player was chosen to do that.

At the end of the day, adjustments to the team are not visibly being made; whether he simply isn't making the adjustments, or whether the team ignores his coaching, they are both equally concerning scenarios.

And our "structure" in attack looks so hacked together - we looked slick against the Roosters, but other than that...

While we did beat Melbourne, and Penrith, one was beaten by a freak bounce, and the other scored the same amount of tries as we did.

I think Arthur needs to give his players a reality check; many of them seem comfortable, and have gotten into bad habits. I believe he needs to let them know that if they keep showing up with a poor attitude, then he will not accept it.

Mahoney over-calling his halves is never good, and Gutherson going kick crazy is overstepping his role.

Brad needs to lay the law of the team down, and take control.

Just my long-winded two cents.
Great post mate. I can’t wait to see how Pou has spun it.
 

hineyrulz

Post Whore
Messages
134,164
I'm certain he was dropped to force him out of the club. We need cap space, no different from any other club who forces players out while under contract. But they have to want to leave and that means showing them they aren't needed.
That seems to have done wonders for team morale, well done club.
 

TheParraboy

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
61,457
Unlike the majority of you, I’m not writing our season off just yet. We are reasonably placed.

We had some poor loses last year, including the thumping loss to Manly (where everyone wanted everyone sacked) but turned it around quick leading into the finals. Some better refereeing, and we possibly progress to the game before the GF.

I’m holding out hope we are able to do the same this year, maybe even be fresher mentally back end cause we ain’t been using our brains much so far.

Do agree we need to move on BA if we fizz out this year. Not sure the board will have the balls to pay out the two remaining years though.

Sticking solid 😎…. for now
 

hineyrulz

Post Whore
Messages
134,164
Losing against South’s while disappointing is not the reason why most of us are pissed, it’s the way we lost. Again we just didn’t show up like we needed too, we played dumb and we’re unwilling to get into the grind. Let’s face it South’s probably were unlucky not to win by more. A dry game they might have put 50 on us. Surely after the dogs game not showing up shouldn’t be happening???
 

TheParraboy

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
61,457
One other thing

BA can trot out "we didnt turn up" , or "we didnt play as a team" at every loss at press conference for all I care

But, id like him for once get stuck into the refereeing when it is justified

It will stick better coming from a coach who never bags the refs puplically. If I was a ref, any 50/50 call id go agaisnt Parra cause the flak wouldnt be coming. In a supposedly premiership window year, wouldnt hurt to stick it up them at least oince (where deserved)

Souths game
- Reg play the ball (happens many times in every game with no penalty)
- Ice push on their HB when he still had the ball - laughable penalty, even more laughable put on report
- Gutho tackled after he kicked the ball ingoal - play on? really??
- Ref Immediately awarding try to Jaxon Paulo when it was very dubious he may have gone into touch

There were some others. We deserved to lose, we didnt respect the football and mad dumb errors, throw in these dud calls as well and the result looks lot worse
 

eel01s

Bench
Messages
3,025
I said we have a well balanced squad, but no superstars. I would define superstar as being in the top 10 players in the game. Do we have anyone that objectively fits that bill? No.

Our players are good enough to be performing at a better level than what they have shown this year. I still think our coaching staff have so far proven that they cannot get any better in terms of training, tactics, motivation/attitude and bench rotation.
 

Soto

Juniors
Messages
1,619
One other thing

BA can trot out "we didnt turn up" , or "we didnt play as a team" at every loss at press conference for all I care

But, id like him for once get stuck into the refereeing when it is justified

It will stick better coming from a coach who never bags the refs puplically. If I was a ref, any 50/50 call id go agaisnt Parra cause the flak wouldnt be coming. In a supposedly premiership window year, wouldnt hurt to stick it up them at least oince (where deserved)

Souths game
- Reg play the ball (happens many times in every game with no penalty)
- Ice push on their HB when he still had the ball - laughable penalty, even more laughable put on report
- Gutho tackled after he kicked the ball ingoal - play on? really??
- Ref Immediately awarding try to Jaxon Paulo when it was very dubious he may have gone into touch

There were some others. We deserved to lose, we didnt respect the football and mad dumb errors, throw in these dud calls as well and the result looks lot worse
Not to mention the massive amount of fwd passes from dummy half by cook.
We were shit but yes id like BA when we've had rubbish calls against us fire up. Never seen it happen once. Maybe contemplating too much how many minutes #17 gets. Is it 3 or 4 this week? 😁
 

hindy111

Immortal
Messages
48,434
OIP.xy7Y-WFZDv6Hu_tWdcd5cAHaE9

In my culture the tree snake is
I'm certain he was dropped to force him out of the club. We need cap space, no different from any other club who forces players out while under contract. But they have to want to leave and that means showing them they aren't needed.

You don't drop guys you want to leave when they make your side stronger in a premiership window.
Anyhows I reckon he has been dropped based on
A- Hanging around Hayne
B - Poor attitude at training since being told not wanted after contract ends
 

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