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Rd20: Parra v Roosters GAME DAY thread @ Mackay 29/7/21

Suitman

Post Whore
Messages
52,150
No, you weren't expecting Parraball because you overestimate the players and tend to think they can do more than what they are likely capable of.

Pou, Emjaycee and myself all made the point that the coach has become conservative with his gameplans because it appears to be more effective.

We also suggested that any attempt to deviate from the plan often involves the players shitting themselves, running sideways and generally Parra f**ken balling.

The game against the Rooters was the very embodiment of what we were suggesting.

Not quite true, but to be fair, it's not what others were saying as well.
I'm not sure that anyone suggested we play Parraball.
It was more about being able to adapt to the game as it plays out, not necessarily just completely changing our tactics and game plan.
Every team plays differently. We need to adapt to that weekly, yet, we go head long in every week with the same tactics. That's why I believe we are becoming predictable and easy pickings, and other, smarter coaches can see this.
The past two weeks we have tried two very different game plans. One was the predictable. Easily countered by an enthusiastic defence. Last night was a throw the ball around approach which was also easily countered, even by a rather poor Roosters team (on the night).

I therefore think that both sides of the argument are correct. We neither have the coach, nor the players to win a comp.

In saying that, last week and last night were really, really dogshite to watch. I stuck it out, but couldn't change the channel to the Olympics quick enough afterwards.
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
10,107
No, you weren't expecting Parraball because you overestimate the players and tend to think they can do more than what they are likely capable of.

Pou, Emjaycee and myself all made the point that the coach has become conservative with his gameplans because it appears to be more effective.

We also suggested that any attempt to deviate from the plan often involves the players shitting themselves, running sideways and generally Parra f**ken balling.

The game against the Rooters was the very embodiment of what we were suggesting.
1. Exactly. Only an idiot would think that that is a premiership winning strategy, especially with this group of players especially at this stage of the season.

2. Yes you were the boofheads that think that that is a winning formula. It is a also ran formula that will NEVER win you a premiership. You will obviously say that at least it gets us to the top 4 and we can roll the dice from there and you never know? But I don't want to be signing and training players to be one dimensional losers when it counts. That type of player and structure might be ok for teams that are at the early stage of building a roster when you want to peel everything back and get them doing the little things right. A team like the Tigers. But for us, from last year onwards we should of made most signings with the intention of strike and speed. We have all the rest. And don't even suggest that the types of players that I am referring to aren't easy to get or weren't available. For a strong settled roster like ours they are easier to recruit and were available.

3. So did I and that is why you need to start with that type of altered game plan in the off season and keep working on it during the season proper and I posted exactly that. This type of major on the run change with robotically trained players was and is ridiculous.

4. Which was so predictable and why the coach trying it, especially without a real playmaker in the team at the time, was one of the worst coaching displays I have ever seen. Talk about reacting to press and fan opinion. He is truly clueless.

We needed tweaks at this stage, not what we got last night. He rattled the players and they responded in kind.
 

Soto

Juniors
Messages
1,114
I still think his press conferences are as effective as our attack in the opposition 20.
Don't say that Avenger..you will be shot down saying we have the 4th best attack in the comp.
Coincendentally we are 6th in attack and sliding...
 

Gary Gutful

Immortal
Messages
42,845
Not quite true, but to be fair, it's not what others were saying as well.
I'm not sure that anyone suggested we play Parraball.
It was more about being able to adapt to the game as it plays out, not necessarily just completely changing our tactics and game plan.
Every team plays differently. We need to adapt to that weekly, yet, we go head long in every week with the same tactics. That's why I believe we are becoming predictable and easy pickings, and other, smarter coaches can see this.
The past two weeks we have tried two very different game plans. One was the predictable. Easily countered by an enthusiastic defence. Last night was a throw the ball around approach which was also easily countered, even by a rather poor Roosters team (on the night).

I therefore think that both sides of the argument are correct. We neither have the coach, nor the players to win a comp.

In saying that, last week and last night were really, really dogshite to watch. I stuck it out, but couldn't change the channel to the Olympics quick enough afterwards.
Good points Suity.

Yep. Totally acknowledge that non-one was suggesting we play Parra Ball. My point is more that even with some slight tweaks to a simple plan our players lose their heads and the Parra Ball seems to come out.

BA has found a formula that has been reasonably successful but I agree that changes are needed to get to the next level. Some of those changes should be to the squad imo. A change in coach alone may not be enough as we have some dumb players in the team.

Hopefully Moses' return sees us improve our kicking game and being more composed in attack. Even then, we'll only get back to where we were earlier in the season which still wont be enough against the better teams.
 

Gary Gutful

Immortal
Messages
42,845
1. Exactly. Only an idiot would think that that is a premiership winning strategy, especially with this group of players especially at this stage of the season.

2. Yes you were the boofheads that think that that is a winning formula. It is a also ran formula that will NEVER win you a premiership. You will obviously say that at least it gets us to the top 4 and we can roll the dice from there and you never know? But I don't want to be signing and training players to be one dimensional losers when it counts. That type of player and structure might be ok for teams that are at the early stage of building a roster when you want to peel everything back and get them doing the little things right. A team like the Tigers. But for us, from last year onwards we should of made most signings with the intention of strike and speed. We have all the rest. And don't even suggest that the types of players that I am referring to aren't easy to get or weren't available. For a strong settled roster like ours they are easier to recruit and were available.

3. So did I and that is why you need to start with that type of altered game plan in the off season and keep working on it during the season proper and I posted exactly that. This type of major on the run change with robotically trained players was and is ridiculous.

4. Which was so predictable and why the coach trying it, especially without a real playmaker in the team at the time, was one of the worst coaching displays I have ever seen. Talk about reacting to press and fan opinion. He is truly clueless.

We needed tweaks at this stage, not what we got last night. He rattled the players and they responded in kind.
1. I was just making the point that Parraball seems to be a by product of even the simplest changes to our simple game plan.

2. Its been a successful formula given the players we have but I've been the first to acknowledge its limitations. Tweaks to that formula would be much more effective if we had a team with more skill and footy smarts. The roosters game seems to prove that.

3. I agree with you on that. A lot of the other commentary before Thursday's game was about making changes this season. Happy not to throw you in with the other boofheads 🙂

4. Except he did say that it wasn't part of the plan. Maybe he was bullshitting though.
 

hindy111

Immortal
Messages
41,025
Moses' back injury has revealed our reliance on him. Is the market predicting he won't be the same when he returns?

Not at all. They don't think we will make top 4. Or can match the good sides. If we are close to 4-1 against Souths I will be having a flutter
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
10,107
Not quite true, but to be fair, it's not what others were saying as well.
I'm not sure that anyone suggested we play Parraball.
It was more about being able to adapt to the game as it plays out, not necessarily just completely changing our tactics and game plan.
Every team plays differently. We need to adapt to that weekly, yet, we go head long in every week with the same tactics. That's why I believe we are becoming predictable and easy pickings, and other, smarter coaches can see this.
The past two weeks we have tried two very different game plans. One was the predictable. Easily countered by an enthusiastic defence. Last night was a throw the ball around approach which was also easily countered, even by a rather poor Roosters team (on the night).

I therefore think that both sides of the argument are correct. We neither have the coach, nor the players to win a comp.

In saying that, last week and last night were really, really dogshite to watch. I stuck it out, but couldn't change the channel to the Olympics quick enough afterwards.

I didn't bother. I fast forwarded it after the first 20 mins. That was enough of that hot mess for me. The rest of the game I watched in 10 mins as low lights. Then I went back to watching season 4 of 'The Queen Of The South.' Much better for my health. I have been doing this for the last couple of season. The stress levels have been way better to deal with. If they can't be bothered to workout how to play to win, I can't be bothered to watch them lose.
 

hindy111

Immortal
Messages
41,025
No, you weren't expecting Parraball because you overestimate the players and tend to think they can do more than what they are likely capable of.

Pou, Emjaycee and myself all made the point that the coach has become conservative with his gameplans because it appears to be more effective.

We also suggested that any attempt to deviate from the plan often involves the players shitting themselves, running sideways and generally Parra f**ken balling.

The game against the Rooters was the very embodiment of what we were suggesting.

What we did last night just did not suit the weather conditions. And we have not played that style in years. Practise makes perfect. Our problem was we did it at the wrong times.
Offloads will tire defenses. It is something we should persist with and it will start to come more naturally.

This is not to say we won't drop a lot of ball and get flogged. But playing a power game against the top sides just means a slow death and a half respectable loss. You wna beat them? We can only do this by upping the anti and risks. Playing higher risks means more chance of a belting. But if 3 or 4 passes stick it would give you a great chance of winning. And then you can go into conservative mode and use our power game to grind.

I've seen plenty of sides come good the last 5 or 6 weeks where everything they do turns to gold. You do not need to play parra ball for 80 mins. But every 3 or 4 sets will be needed to atleast give us a chance.

The game last night turned when Blake got on outside and had Sivo stayed on wing we score and have a lead. At worse from there I suggest its only a 6-4 halftime not 12-0.
At that point we where shot.
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
10,107
1. I was just making the point that Parraball seems to be a by product of even the simplest changes to our simple game plan.

2. Its been a successful formula given the players we have but I've been the first to acknowledge its limitations. Tweaks to that formula would be much more effective if we had a team with more skill and footy smarts. The roosters game seems to prove that.

3. I agree with you on that. A lot of the other commentary before Thursday's game was about making changes this season. Happy not to throw you in with the other boofheads 🙂

4. Except he did say that it wasn't part of the plan. Maybe he was bullshitting though.

After he saw how they executed it, of course he said it wasn't part of the game plan. He expected them to know how and when to pass and catch, just like they would have done in the couple of training sessions he had with them.

Pity he doesn't realise that they are not real robots and you can't just change an old instruction with a new one without without issue. You need real training and repetition over a long period of time to break old habits and start new ones.
 

Gary Gutful

Immortal
Messages
42,845
After he saw how they executed it, of course he said it wasn't part of the game plan. He expected them to know how and when to pass and catch, just like they would have done in the couple of training sessions he had with them.

Pity he doesn't realise that they are not real robots and you can't just change an old instruction with a new one without without issue. You need real training and repetition over a long period of time to break old habits and start new ones.
So if we go back to our boring game plan for the rest of the year you'll be OK with that?
 

yy_cheng

Coach
Messages
14,344
That would be my team for next week, except I would put Cartwright in for Hipgrave. I don't see any difference between Hipy and Stone. And Makahesi Makatoa's inclusion is way over due. I think he would bust a gut if coach put him in.
Shame Emu is out... I like how he gives it his all and rips in.

Hope has a great offseason and comes back super fit next year
 

Suitman

Post Whore
Messages
52,150
Good points Suity.

Yep. Totally acknowledge that non-one was suggesting we play Parra Ball. My point is more that even with some slight tweaks to a simple plan our players lose their heads and the Parra Ball seems to come out.

BA has found a formula that has been reasonably successful but I agree that changes are needed to get to the next level. Some of those changes should be to the squad imo. A change in coach alone may not be enough as we have some dumb players in the team.

Hopefully Moses' return sees us improve our kicking game and being more composed in attack. Even then, we'll only get back to where we were earlier in the season which still wont be enough against the better teams.

Agree with all those points.

All this season, I have held hope the we might possibly be contenders, although I always had my doubts.
Last week vs the Raiders convinced me that we aren't even close.
The one game where we needed to start standing up and prove our worth.
We failed dismally tbh. Last night just doubly confirmed my thoughts.
It's time for change. We are currently going nowhere.
 

hindy111

Immortal
Messages
41,025
Agree with all those points.

All this season, I have held hope the we might possibly be contenders, although I always had my doubts.
Last week vs the Raiders convinced me that we aren't even close.
The one game where we needed to start standing up and prove our worth.
We failed dismally tbh. Last night just doubly confirmed my thoughts.
It's time for change. We are currently going nowhere.

I thought before season started we'd miss the top 8. I predicted around 9-10.
I was suprised how well we travelled tbh. I think the next 5 weeks will tell a lot. I do not see anyone beating the STORM.
Penrith seem to be getting to many injuries at the wrong time.
 

Gary Gutful

Immortal
Messages
42,845
Agree with all those points.

All this season, I have held hope the we might possibly be contenders, although I always had my doubts.
Last week vs the Raiders convinced me that we aren't even close.
The one game where we needed to start standing up and prove our worth.
We failed dismally tbh. Last night just doubly confirmed my thoughts.
It's time for change. We are currently going nowhere.
Yep, same. I've hoped over the last couple of years that we might take that next step but it isn't happening.

It wouldn't surprise me if changes were made at the end of the year.
 
Messages
35,878
What we did last night just did not suit the weather conditions. And we have not played that style in years. Practise makes perfect. Our problem was we did it at the wrong times.
Offloads will tire defenses. It is something we should persist with and it will start to come more naturally.

This is not to say we won't drop a lot of ball and get flogged. But playing a power game against the top sides just means a slow death and a half respectable loss. You wna beat them? We can only do this by upping the anti and risks. Playing higher risks means more chance of a belting. But if 3 or 4 passes stick it would give you a great chance of winning. And then you can go into conservative mode and use our power game to grind.

I've seen plenty of sides come good the last 5 or 6 weeks where everything they do turns to gold. You do not need to play parra ball for 80 mins. But every 3 or 4 sets will be needed to atleast give us a chance.

The game last night turned when Blake got on outside and had Sivo stayed on wing we score and have a lead. At worse from there I suggest its only a 6-4 halftime not 12-0.
At that point we where shot.
Yep, need to keep using the ball like we did last night. Updated stats show each team had 50% possession, they had slightly more run metres at 1767m to 1704m, and their completion rate was 76% and ours 74%. But we made a heap more passes than them, with 275 to 215. The errors were mostly inside their 20.
 

Suitman

Post Whore
Messages
52,150
Yep, same. I've hoped over the last couple of years that we might take that next step but it isn't happening.

It wouldn't surprise me if changes were made at the end of the year.

That will only happen if we have a really shite end to the season, which is possible. Even then, I'm not sure BA would be dismissed.
Otherwise, BA is signed for next season.

Anyway, I'm off to cook dinner. Might post a pic in the food thread later! :)
 

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