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Rebuilding

Walpole

Juniors
Messages
2,460
I know, it's an awful word because we all want instant success, but the way the club's been run into the ground it's where we're at now. It seems we can write this season off, something I've been reluctant to accept but now has become apparent. Forgive me for being late to the party but my first instinct is always to hope things will turn around.

So, where do we go from here? First things first.

The administration
Let's face it. Peter Doust isn't going anywhere any time soon. I appreciate a good "Oust Doust° sign as much as the next man but it doesn't amount to much. Unless we all band together, flood the club with membership applications and elect one (or two or three) of our own to the board then nothing will change.**

Given this, let's move on to the coach.

Obviously Mary has proven to be inadequate. I think he's doing his best but it's horribly short of the mark. So who's the best choice for the job? We had Bennett but let him go. Bellamy is ensconced in Melbourne. Maguire and Robinson, while having had recent success are struggling this year without everything in their favour. Hasler has that X factor. His teams seem to want to play for him and he appears to like a challenge. But how much do we need to throw at him? Can we afford it? Then there's Toovey or Cleary. Are they really the answer, given they were sacked by their last employers? I like Tony Smith but does he class as an "old boy", which most seem dead against or does the passage of time excuse him from this? For me the bolter is Garth Brennan, who's already won under 20s and NSW cup titles and brought along the likes of Cartwright, Peachey and Moylan at Penrith.

Then, the players.

As we know, the "spine" is the most important thing in the modern game. Our halves are dreadful and it's hard to know where the blame starts. At Melbourne Widdop was probably the 4th best player in their team and has played 18 games for England. Based on that alone he should be killing it for the Dragons. But as we constantly see he's lost his way and his short kicking game is now horrendous. Most of us agreed he was a good choice for captain at the time (pre-season, I reckon about 90% applauded the decision, myself included) but its clear he lacks the necessary leadership qualities. As for Benji, his best days are way behind him, somewhere around that great year of 2010. Then there's fullback. Dugan? I dont know any more. We all know his strengths (running the ball) and weaknesses (passing ffs) but what do we actually want from a fullback? Either we build a plan that uses his strengths or move on. Finally, everyone's whipping boy, Mitch Rein. He's got a great heart and tackles as well as any hooker in the game but his passing game often let's us down. Is that because he needs a break and a quality 20-30 minute replacement during games? Remember, we won a comp with Dean Young and Nathan Fien as our hooker rotation and Ben Hornby as our halfback! The current guys should be doing better.

So how do we rebuild? First off, while Mary remains coach I think we continue on for the rest of this year with the players who've dug this hole. As much as I want to see the likes of Dufty, Milne and Hutch given a chance I don't know that they'll gain anything by being brought into a toxic environment. Let Mary stumble through the rest of the year while those boys enjoy some success with the u20s and Cutters. Based of course on us throwing whatever bank we have at luring Hasler or T.Smith as coach in 2017 or failing that, a bargain buy in Brennan, who's had far more success in the lower grades than Mary ever had.

As for players, I'll continue this act of self indulgence for a little longer. My team, going into 2017, with a new coach of course , would look something like this;
1. Dufty
2. Nightingale (sorry, I just can't let the old boy go - Carr or Glymin to replace him after one more year)
3. Aitken
4. Dugan
5. Milne
6. Mann (there's something there, I can feel it!)
7. Widdop (or preferably, a class young half like Ashley Taylor, we should throw that Norman money at him)
8. Packer
9. Rein (preferably Segeyaro, I'm sure he'd come back from England given the right offer)
10. Ah Mau
11. Frizzell
12. Thompson
13. Sims
14. Hutchison (he's big enough to defend in the middle, play some hooker and back up halves if required)
15. Host
16. DeBelin (I reckon he can tackle...)
17. Masoe

So, a new half (Taylor), hooker (Segeyaro) and coach (Hasler/Smith) plus Dugan or Frizzell as captain would do it for me.

Not too much to ask is it?



** This is possible and we shouldn't lose sight of that...
 

St Georgio

Juniors
Messages
2,283
I agree with you, we need to fine a new spine that's is...a new coach, a new hooker, a new halfback, a new fullback!
I feel sorry for Benji he deserved to retire on a bang, I feel Widdop should remain at 5/8 he is not a halfback!
Dugan is no longer a fullback, he is a defender as a centre, so yes to Aitken/Dugan as 3 and 4..also Dugan should be captain.
Lafai can go back to the Dogs!
 

Coffs dragon

Bench
Messages
4,401
Some great ideas Walpole and I am a big fan of the development coaching of Garth Brennan. I would be happy to see him in charge for 2017 with Jason Demetriou as his right hand assistant.
With any rebuild it has to be done properly with all the right foundations in place. Our team desperately needs leadership and creativity in the halves backed up by speed in the backline. My suggestions:-
1. Find a new captain (Maybe Tariq Simms as he has some experience or Joel Thompson)
2. Rebuild the spine completely with youth (Mann, Hastings, Dufty, Hutch etc.)
3. Off load Dugan and Widdop (over priced and over rated)
4. Stack the bench with size and impact
5. Let the coach build and develop from our home grown juniors
 

Minh

First Grade
Messages
8,858
After a shaky start, Mann has really shown some class and has bounced back strong. Easily one of the better backs that we have and must be in the starting side somewhere.
 

Mr Red

First Grade
Messages
6,193
After a shaky start, Mann has really shown some class and has bounced back strong. Easily one of the better backs that we have and must be in the starting side somewhere.

Playing on the wing at this point of his career suits him I think,
Ease him into the first grade team in a role that is less pressure compared to fullback.
Add to that wing is a less physical role compared to fullback so it gives him time to put on an extra 5kg without being a hinderance.
 

Minh

First Grade
Messages
8,858
Playing on the wing at this point of his career suits him I think,
Ease him into the first grade team in a role that is less pressure compared to fullback.
Add to that wing is a less physical role compared to fullback so it gives him time to put on an extra 5kg without being a hinderance.
I think playing wing has helped him immensely and he has great defense near the tryline. He's a good player and one that will get better, plenty of pace too, looks to easily be the quickest in our team.
 

Mr Red

First Grade
Messages
6,193
I think playing wing has helped him immensely and he has great defense near the tryline. He's a good player and one that will get better, plenty of pace too, looks to easily be the quickest in our team.

Easily the quickest and probably friz second quickest based on his origin effort..
But really being quickest at the dragons is like rolling up to a Morris minor car show with a Bugatti veyron.
 

twinkletoes

Juniors
Messages
1,006
Walpole,,Thats something like the sort of backline we should be aiming at, but the forwards are pretty much what we currently have and to be honest they are just not manning up...they are playing soft. We need someone who will give them a bit of mongrel and enthusiasm in defence, which also seems to have disappeared this season. A new coach might be able to motivate the current players but I feel we are still 1 aggressive forward short of what we need..
 

Minh

First Grade
Messages
8,858
Easily the quickest and probably friz second quickest based on his origin effort..
But really being quickest at the dragons is like rolling up to a Morris minor car show with a Bugatti veyron.

True we are slugs...Mann actually has more pace than most of the opposition backs.
 
Messages
17,055
I'll tell you now Carr will never play first grade at the Dragons they are f**king his development so badly and I have to ask why.

Glymin is rooted just like the Stanleys he is and will continue to be injury prone and honestly i rather seem them spend the time on Carr or even give Dodd a fair chance at a contract.

Hutchison won't stick around much longer he is another who more than likely be given the flick along with McCarthy, Mathews and possibly Lui and for the love of god they will retain Marketo who tries his guts out but just isn't going to help.
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
18,022
Players who can tackle effectively, create pressure, get return sets, make minimal errors, can score are the highest priority in rebuilding this team.

We all know how bad the attack is but here are some stats that show clearly the above issues have to be addressed and the current roster doesn't do it well.

Team Possession% Tackles Made Points Against
Storm 51 5485 182
Dogs 52 5533 300
Broncs 52 5442 307
Titans 51 5429 370
Raiders 50 5418 350
Cows 53 5319 253
Sharks 52 4797 250
Warriors 51 5209 394
Eels 49 5414 259
Dragons 49 5974 372

In the above Storm, Sharks, Eels have a game to be played this round but not likely that their stats will blow out badly

The ratio of tackles made to points leaked IMO has a lot to say about the effectiveness of the tackle itself.

We have made a lot more tackles and leaked a lot more points than the good sides and whilst are possession ratio is down the comparison to the Raiders, Eels, Titans does give guidance as to how bad the "D" actually is let alone looking at the good sides.
 

grouch

First Grade
Messages
8,393
I don't think being sacked is a valid reason to rule out a coaching candidate. David Waite was sacked by Newcastle, as an example
 

Blood Shot Eyes

First Grade
Messages
6,323
After a shaky start, Mann has really shown some class and has bounced back strong. Easily one of the better backs that we have and must be in the starting side somewhere.
Agree Minh regarding Mann...after his two try effort and more time in the 1sts and with Duges sidelined I would like to see him given another go at fullback (that's providing they wont look at Dufty) and Milne along side Aitken in the centres...its past the due date now we start seriously looking at these younger blokes now as permanent fixtures in the top grade
 

SaintPauli

Juniors
Messages
1,179
Bevan French 20 year old from Parra worth a play for. Preferred position fullback. I think related to Nathan Tingha Blacklock or at least same town. Reads play well, Runs well, passes! , jumps high and speed. How much?

Dugan to center
 
Messages
1
I'm a long time reader, first time poster to this forum.

I agree with pretty much everything that Walpole has stated above. I would possibly even try Mann at halfback when he has played a few more games - how can it hurt? A bit of speed in the backline and some idea in the halves would make the world of difference

I am not normally one to jump on the "sack the coach" bandwagon but I think it has become fairly clear that Mary does not have the plan we require to win games. I find our games boring as I can only watch so much gritty defence. Our attack is almost non-existent.

I feel sorry for most of the players as they have been trying their guts out. The last 2 games were the only 2 where I thought that they had given up at times. It is time to change the coach to someone who can get results with what is not a bad bunch of players.. I would grab Toovey as a coach in a heartbeat.
 

Daniel Bartolo

Juniors
Messages
58
All ways thought Widdop should be fullback.I think he has a great football brain always seems to be in right place at right time.I think he is one of quicker dragons . definitely not a ball player but knows how run into holes and backup.good talker
 
Messages
2,503
All ways thought Widdop should be fullback.I think he has a great football brain always seems to be in right place at right time.I think he is one of quicker dragons . definitely not a ball player but knows how run into holes and backup.good talker
I honestly don't see any of this. He may turn out to be a great fullback, but I don't see any evidence of a great football brain. I don't see him being in the right place at the right time, I don't see him running into holes, I don't see him backing up and I don't see him talking on the field.
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
18,022
All ways thought Widdop should be fullback.I think he has a great football brain always seems to be in right place at right time.I think he is one of quicker dragons . definitely not a ball player but knows how run into holes and backup.good talker

I have been a big Widdop supporter but have to say I am alarmed this year at the level of his decline.

I do believe he reads the game well and his defensive work has been great (save the Hurrell tackle) and he has stopped an incredible amount of tries being scored on Lafai's side due to Lafai's shocking defensive reads.

Not sure he will be a good FB although he does clean up a lot of the dirty stuff in our in goal.

If we can do anything (other than sack Mary) to save his career I would certainly support that.
 
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