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Round 10 V Souths

RufusRex

Post Whore
Messages
62,231
Big game for all our players ... a great time for origin hopefuls to give one more stellar showing.
 

Frank Facer

First Grade
Messages
5,069
I am hoping that Mary makes a late change and starts with Lomax instead of Nightingale. I don't expect Mary to do it, but I can hope.
 

TomRedVRiver

Bench
Messages
3,649
Host picked 1 game gets 7minutes not picked next game, Robson picked 1 game gets 7 minutes not picked next game, now Lomax probably 7 minutes and who knows what next game?
In all honesty do people really believe that is blooding players or preparing them for an 80 minute game in 1st grade come SOO week?
IMO it is a very strange policy masked by the fact we are winning games and leading the comp.
What is actually wrong with picking them for 2 games, playing them for 20 minutes per game and then rotating to the next player who needs 1st grade time?
Does anyone think that based on what we have seen this year by increasing the game time for these players (in preparation for SOO week and come what may) we would have actually lost any games?

With Mann playing as that extra forward in the middle, our forwards aren't really being overworked in relation to the minutes they are playing. Graham and Vaughan are playing about 45-55 minutes each, De Belin 60 minutes, Friz and Sims 80 (most of the time). That's no different to the rotation of every other team. Can't see any reason for a burnout.
Believe me, i've disagreed with Mary's use of the bench for some time.. But it's not as if we're lacking punch in the middle. In fact Mann's impact is becoming more and more immediate. I've seen him poke his nose through a couple of times, and he's acting as a nice little point of difference between Hunt and Widdop.

And to answer your question "do people really believe that is blooding players or preparing them for an 80 minute game in 1st grade come SOO week"... It's not as if we can just drop Aitken, or Sims, or De Belin, or any of these Origin prospects purely because they might get picked and purely to "properly blood" these young players. You still have to pick your best team available, and right now (excluding maybe Nightingale) the current 17 is our best available. What happens if we go with your system of picking them for a game or two and starting them, they have a shocker and then they're dropped back to reserve grade. It's going to shatter their confidence. Sure, it could spark them and they'll want to work harder on their deficiencies, but imagine the backlash on this forum. We're winning, you don't blood youth just for the sake of it. That's what injuries and poor form is for.

Right now, the forwards rotation is working. Lomax is our bench utility and he will come on at the end of the match or in case of injury.
 
Messages
3,582
This business of giving the juniors a cameo appearance spot from the bench really ticks me off.

It reminds me of primary school today. Everyone receives a participation award.

Sele should be in the 17.

Lomax and Robson are futures stars. Now is not the time to blood them. Particularly if they only get a few minutes. When McInnes is injured by all means play Robson. Lomax will get his chance soon enough. He is physically ready.

When they do play it has to be for meaningful minutes. 0-7 minutes is a waste of time. They are better off playing 80 minutes in ISP.

As for Mann, the guy should be starting as a back, not playing consistent minutes as a middle forward. Sooner or later he will end up busted.

Love the fact we are winning.

Don't accept current use of bench is doing the starting forwards any favours.

Latimore is going ok. Pulled off a crucial tackle against Melbourne.
 

RufusRex

Post Whore
Messages
62,231
tend to agree ... need more than 7 minutes ... last season field was given a few starts and wasnt even given a kick ... learn nothing in that ..

Lomax is he plays should be given half a game at least ... learn about what hit ups in 1st grade is really like, what defence is really like and what stading outside a centre that cant pass is really like ...
 

Mark D

Juniors
Messages
623
A game that genuinely worries me... We historically struggle against Souths and this time as opposed to the last encounter Sam B is playing (believe he missed the first up game this year). Their forwards are going well , Damien Cook is on fire plus guys like Alex Johnston and Inglis are in form...

Our edge defence is a massive worry especially the right side as it’s been all year... it will be tested for absolutely sure.

Can’t be any more happy with the Red V this year though..

Mary is doing great and the players are responding.

There is a sense of control with this years team and that has a lot to do with Hunt and James Graham and the effect they have had on the group.


Will be a tough one .... bring it on!
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
16,914
If we did lose any of those games, then I think you would be even more critical of Mary. Many posters were very critical of Mary putting Leilua on with 20 to go against Souths and Leilua making some vital mistakes that gave Souths the opportunity to nearly snatch the game.
A couple of points
  1. Each player should be judged on their own merits and just because Leilua makes a mistake doesn't mean to say that all young players will therefore make those same mistakes.
  2. If we are blooding young players with a view to our future and any potential external signings then I could live with a loss here or there. Not knowing what we have and continually buying external players or journeyman because of that would make me more critical.
  3. My major criticism is the lack of medium to long term vision (just my opinion) not because of having that vision and it being proven wrong.
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
16,914
With Mann playing as that extra forward in the middle, our forwards aren't really being overworked in relation to the minutes they are playing. Graham and Vaughan are playing about 45-55 minutes each, De Belin 60 minutes, Friz and Sims 80 (most of the time). That's no different to the rotation of every other team. Can't see any reason for a burnout.
Believe me, i've disagreed with Mary's use of the bench for some time.. But it's not as if we're lacking punch in the middle. In fact Mann's impact is becoming more and more immediate. I've seen him poke his nose through a couple of times, and he's acting as a nice little point of difference between Hunt and Widdop.

And to answer your question "do people really believe that is blooding players or preparing them for an 80 minute game in 1st grade come SOO week"... It's not as if we can just drop Aitken, or Sims, or De Belin, or any of these Origin prospects purely because they might get picked and purely to "properly blood" these young players. You still have to pick your best team available, and right now (excluding maybe Nightingale) the current 17 is our best available. What happens if we go with your system of picking them for a game or two and starting them, they have a shocker and then they're dropped back to reserve grade. It's going to shatter their confidence. Sure, it could spark them and they'll want to work harder on their deficiencies, but imagine the backlash on this forum. We're winning, you don't blood youth just for the sake of it. That's what injuries and poor form is for.

Right now, the forwards rotation is working. Lomax is our bench utility and he will come on at the end of the match or in case of injury.
The accommodation of Nighty in 1st grade really limits the options.
If he wasn't there and Mann was in the run on side much more could have and still could be achieved re the bench.
Host, Robson, Sele, Lomax could all have had 2 games each and been far better prepared for the tasks that lie ahead and that is without me even thinking about what could be done without Latimore.
 

TomRedVRiver

Bench
Messages
3,649
The accommodation of Nighty in 1st grade really limits the options.
If he wasn't there and Mann was in the run on side much more could have and still could be achieved re the bench.
Host, Robson, Sele, Lomax could all have had 2 games each and been far better prepared for the tasks that lie ahead and that is without me even thinking about what could be done without Latimore.

Agreed. However if we're going to have a that versatile player on the bench to play in the middle and cover positions in the backline, i'd much rather it be Mann. Lomax on Nighty's wing is the better option I think in terms of squad balance.

Kurt's versatility is his greatest strength but also his biggest downfall unfortunately.

I've always agreed with you over Latimore as well. He's plodding along and ticking boxes, but Sele is the better player.
 

redandwhite4evr

Juniors
Messages
1,816
I’d like to see Vaughan have a big one.
He’s gone a bit quite of late.
Miss seeing some of those charging runs.

All the origin hopefuls need a ‘biggie’ to cement their places.

Love to see Atkins do another ‘runner’ around Inglis, just for old times sake.
Dufty and Nene have to step up this week. Teams have worked out Duf tends to try and beat you on the outside down the right edge and now just wait for him to do that and rag doll him into touch. He should trail our dynamic edge busting players as well as McInnes from dummy half. Nene is playing on about one of his four cylinders. He continues to prop and stop when he comes to the line instead of doing a Friz and charging. He's big enough to be making big breaks every match.
 

Dragonslayer

First Grade
Messages
7,678
This is the first game this year I feel apprehensive about.
Many factors are against us.
Indigenous round, watch Inglis, Gagai and others embrace this game full on at their home ground
We have been "up" for the last 3 weeks playing arguably the game of the round at semi-final intensity. And yes, we need to do that to have any chance of (a) making the finals, and (b) actually winning finals games, Souths on the other hand have been a little under the radar if you ask me.
Burgess will be back to prove a point as well.
Are we due for a "bad" loss? I hope not, and pray the train keeps rolling on, but I just have this feeling the train is heading for a station stop this round.
 

English Rose

Juniors
Messages
560
This will be an interesting clash of the forwards, more so with ' forearm ' Burgess returning for the Rabbits. If there is any one that he is afraid of then it is our man James Graham, who taught him in the '14 G.Final how it was really done in the trenches .

Correct me if I'm wrong but at the end didn't Burgess go on to lift the NRL trophy and the Clive Churchill award where James Graham was left on his hands and knees wondering what might have been?

Yup he sure taught him in that 14 G,Final!
 

ouryears

Bench
Messages
3,195
Correct me if I'm wrong but at the end didn't Burgess go on to lift the NRL trophy and the Clive Churchill award where James Graham was left on his hands and knees wondering what might have been?

Yup he sure taught him in that 14 G,Final!
I hardly think it was Burgess VS Graham. It was Souths VS the Dogs. And Souths sure as heck came back down to earth 2015, 2016 and 2017.
 
Messages
4,002
And hi
This business of giving the juniors a cameo appearance spot from the bench really ticks me off.

It reminds me of primary school today. Everyone receives a participation award.

Sele should be in the 17.

Lomax and Robson are futures stars. Now is not the time to blood them. Particularly if they only get a few minutes. When McInnes is injured by all means play Robson. Lomax will get his chance soon enough. He is physically ready.

When they do play it has to be for meaningful minutes. 0-7 minutes is a waste of time. They are better off playing 80 minutes in ISP.

As for Mann, the guy should be starting as a back, not playing consistent minutes as a middle forward. Sooner or later he will end up busted.

Love the fact we are winning.

Don't accept current use of bench is doing the starting forwards any favours.

Latimore is going ok. Pulled off a crucial tackle against Melbourne.
and hit the balls hard
 

Saint_JimmyG

First Grade
Messages
5,067
This business of giving the juniors a cameo appearance spot from the bench really ticks me off.

It reminds me of primary school today. Everyone receives a participation award.

Sele should be in the 17.

Lomax and Robson are futures stars. Now is not the time to blood them. Particularly if they only get a few minutes. When McInnes is injured by all means play Robson. Lomax will get his chance soon enough. He is physically ready.

When they do play it has to be for meaningful minutes. 0-7 minutes is a waste of time. They are better off playing 80 minutes in ISP.

As for Mann, the guy should be starting as a back, not playing consistent minutes as a middle forward. Sooner or later he will end up busted.

Love the fact we are winning.

Don't accept current use of bench is doing the starting forwards any favours.

Latimore is going ok. Pulled off a crucial tackle against Melbourne.

These cameo appearances wouldn't be good for these players' morale.
 

Saint_JimmyG

First Grade
Messages
5,067
A game that genuinely worries me... We historically struggle against Souths and this time as opposed to the last encounter Sam B is playing (believe he missed the first up game this year). Their forwards are going well , Damien Cook is on fire plus guys like Alex Johnston and Inglis are in form...

Our edge defence is a massive worry especially the right side as it’s been all year... it will be tested for absolutely sure.

Can’t be any more happy with the Red V this year though..

Mary is doing great and the players are responding.

There is a sense of control with this years team and that has a lot to do with Hunt and James Graham and the effect they have had on the group.


Will be a tough one .... bring it on!

I fear Melbourne has now provided other teams a blueprint how to beat Saints.

It's not solely a Nightingale 'thing' either.
 

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