Round 10 V Souths

[ouryears]

I fear Melbourne has now provided other teams a blueprint how to beat Saints.

It's not solely a Nightingale 'thing' either.

Melbourne got beat by 20.
There is no blue print.

If our ball control was decent we would have won by 40.
Toss your blue print away.

 

[The Damo]

These cameo appearances wouldn't be good for these players' morale.

I think it depends on what they’re being told. If the coach says - you’re in the 17, we want you to experience the game day prep and atmosphere. We consider you ready to step up and replace our best players if required but for now you’ll be getting limited minutes.
To me that looks like it says here’s where you are, here’s the pathway, I’m confident you’ll walk it, but team comes first and the best players are going to play the most. I don’t see how that’s gonna harm morale.
It also depends on what the players show. To me it looks like the coach is already confident that Sele and Host can step into firsts, so it’s about having them as options and keeping up match fitness, and presumably working on details of their games.

 

[Bests Golden Boots]

I think it depends on what they’re being told. If the coach says - you’re in the 17, we want you to experience the game day prep and atmosphere. We consider you ready to step up and replace our best players if required but for now you’ll be getting limited minutes.
To me that looks like it says here’s where you are, here’s the pathway, I’m confident you’ll walk it, but team comes first and the best players are going to play the most. I don’t see how that’s gonna harm morale.
It also depends on what the players show. To me it looks like the coach is already confident that Sele and Host can step into firsts, so it’s about having them as options and keeping up match fitness, and presumably working on details of their games.

My thoughts exactly.
If it’s done right it’s about telling the young guys “right you’ve had a go, this week we are giving one of your mates in the NSW Cup some game time”

If you explain it to the players properly they would understand.
I’m sure most of them realise that while we are 8-1 with no injuries there is going to be limited opportunities to play first grade, so all the young prospects deserve a go on the bench, even if that means limited game time.

 

[SBD82]

I think it depends on what they’re being told. If the coach says - you’re in the 17, we want you to experience the game day prep and atmosphere. We consider you ready to step up and replace our best players if required but for now you’ll be getting limited minutes.
To me that looks like it says here’s where you are, here’s the pathway, I’m confident you’ll walk it, but team comes first and the best players are going to play the most. I don’t see how that’s gonna harm morale.
It also depends on what the players show. To me it looks like the coach is already confident that Sele and Host can step into firsts, so it’s about having them as options and keeping up match fitness, and presumably working on details of their games.

So much this.

The core of the top 17 is strong. By bringing in the young ones for experience, as long as they know what it's about, you are exposing them to the realities of the step up, letting them get a taste of the culture, and giving them an understanding of the expectations, so that when they return to ressies they know what they need to work on. They also get a taste while still understanding that they are going to have to earn their spot.

Given our amazing run so far with form and injuries, we are in a privileged position where we are able to do this.

 

[Belta]

There are a few different opinions, yeah and I know we are winning but I agree with;

Saints Forever when he said;

"When they do play it has to be for meaningful minutes. 0-7 minutes is a waste of time. They are better off playing 80 minutes in ISP."

Robson slotted in for 7 minutes not missing a beat. He seems composed and would not of tired and dropped off as Leilua did. (Not that I'm bagging Leilua but rather making a point that he appeared to struggle with the pace of the game).

The Damo said;

"I don't see how it's gunna harm morale..."

Not soo much team morale but for the individuals confidence and merits I just don't get it. The 7 minutes is my issue. IMO it's not worth doing your laces up for. I get if its forced due to injury or just a bad time to make a replacement but it's seems to be a preset plan. I get their is the privilege of playing first grade but honestly, IMO you just wouldn't feel like part of the team, not for players of his quality. It was an opportunity to show faith and put Robson on for the last 20 minutes. Good selection but poor use, an opportunity lost.
Only my thoughts of course

 

[Bests Golden Boots]

There are a few different opinions, yeah and I know we are winning but I agree with;

Saints Forever when he said;

"When they do play it has to be for meaningful minutes. 0-7 minutes is a waste of time. They are better off playing 80 minutes in ISP."

Robson slotted in for 7 minutes not missing a beat. He seems composed and would not of tired and dropped off as Leilua did. (Not that I'm bagging Leilua but rather making a point that he appeared to struggle with the pace of the game).

The Damo said;

"I don't see how it's gunna harm morale..."

Not soo much team morale but for the individuals confidence and merits I just don't get it. The 7 minutes is my issue. IMO it's not worth doing your laces up for. I get if its forced due to injury or just a bad time to make a replacement but it's seems to be a preset plan. I get their is the privilege of playing first grade but honestly, IMO you just wouldn't feel like part of the team, not for players of his quality. It was an opportunity to show faith and put Robson on for the last 20 minutes. Good selection but poor use, an opportunity lost.
Only my thoughts of course

But it’s also about giving all the young guys a chance to train with the first grade team all week and get the experience of first grade match day, that’s invaluable.
Half the time the ISP is on the next day anyway and most go back to play a full game there.
As I said, if it’s done right and explained well to the players there shouldn’t be any effect on their morale.

 

[Belta]

Best Golden Boots said;

"But it’s also about giving all the young guys a chance to train with the first grade team all week and get the experience of first grade match day, that’s invaluable.
Half the time the ISP is on the next day anyway and most go back to play a fullgame there.
As I said, if it’s done right and explained well to the players there shouldn’t be any effect on their morale".

----–--------------/////////---------------------------------------------------------------

I can understand that line of thought but don't fully agree it's 100% positive. It's beyond just the faith in the player, for me it extends to the long term under use of the fourth reserve. I do wonder if the demons of prior failures have made him a little cautious, and who could blame him?

Anyways we've had much to celebrate and for now we sit on top, so happy days.

 

[RufusRex]

Tend to agree but also think that there are other ways

18th man can be part of the build up, part of the squad until kick off .. The difference between that and say Luc who sat on the bench for 80 one round is pretty minimal - they sit just on the field instead of just off it. Lomax has been travelling reserve or 18th man in pretty much every game - would have done a lot of warm ups in case of a pre game injury .. Plus the two trials including the shield have given him a part taste of things.

If you are going to give a bloke a debut - particulalry an outside back then you really need to give them time on the paddock as well ... He needs to make a kick return or two, make an early tackle run or two and definitely needs to be making a decision in the defensive line. You really cannot do that in 7m esp if a game is already won.

 

[SBD82]

Tend to agree but also think that there are other ways

18th man can be part of the build up, part of the squad until kick off .. The difference between that and say Luc who sat on the bench for 80 one round is pretty minimal - they sit just on the field instead of just off it. Lomax has been travelling reserve or 18th man in pretty much every game - would have done a lot of warm ups in case of a pre game injury .. Plus the two trials including the shield have given him a part taste of things.

If you are going to give a bloke a debut - particulalry an outside back then you really need to give them time on the paddock as well ... He needs to make a kick return or two, make an early tackle run or two and definitely needs to be making a decision in the defensive line. You really cannot do that in 7m esp if a game is already won.

The interchange bench is an interesting one this year.

While I've been critical of the middle rotation in the past, we currently have 4 of the best middle forwards in the game, plus Mann playing an old style lock/ball playing role, and latimore doing a job.

Between JDB and Mann they knock out 80 minutes easily.

Between Ah Mau, Graham, Vaughan and latimore they easily cover the 40 minutes average that we need from them.

So what to do with the extra player? If you add him as a middle who do you take minutes off? LAM and Latimore are the middles playing less minutes, so you would have to think that you take minutes off Graham or Vaughan. Either way, the quality of the player that you replace means that you will be losing something in that position.

If you add him as a second rower, you take away minutes from sims or frizell, who have both been proving that they are legitimate 80 minute players.

So where does the 17th fit? I think it's entirely worthwhile at the moment to give that spot to the young blokes to give them experience, and use them to plug a gap in the event of an injury.

I would guess that if we lose one of Vaughan, De Belin or Graham, the bench will change and we will add a middle (so 3 middles off the bench plus Mann. Maybe Sele and Lawrie), to cover for the loss of a quality long minute middle. Or we add host so that he can play an edge while Tariq and Friz get some time in the middle. Until that happens though, I think we will continue as is.

 

[The Damo]

Tend to agree but also think that there are other ways

18th man can be part of the build up, part of the squad until kick off .. The difference between that and say Luc who sat on the bench for 80 one round is pretty minimal - they sit just on the field instead of just off it. Lomax has been travelling reserve or 18th man in pretty much every game - would have done a lot of warm ups in case of a pre game injury .. Plus the two trials including the shield have given him a part taste of things.

If you are going to give a bloke a debut - particulalry an outside back then you really need to give them time on the paddock as well ... He needs to make a kick return or two, make an early tackle run or two and definitely needs to be making a decision in the defensive line. You really cannot do that in 7m esp if a game is already won.

Agree that it’s different for a back, a young forward 7-15 is ok I think but a centre or winger 10-20 would be better.

 

[RufusRex]

Damo, yes backs and forwards are different propositions .. Though I think a forward probably needs more than 10min too .. You don't learn about the fatigue of 1st grade in 10 minutes do you?

 

[The Damo]

Damo, yes backs and forwards are different propositions .. Though I think a forward probably needs more than 10min too .. You don't learn about the fatigue of 1st grade in 10 minutes do you?

No, but for a debut I think it’s ok. What happened with Lawrie last year was pretty reasonable for example. His first few games were 7-11 minutes, then a couple of 15’s, then around 22, and he looked really comfortable in that last game. A lot depends on the other players and the circumstances of the game too.

 

[Draginzaaar]

Another tough one. I think we have it the bag. Dragons win by a point, 11 to 10 Widdop slots the field goal.

Left Foot?

 

[Datramp]

The interchange bench is an interesting one this year.

While I've been critical of the middle rotation in the past, we currently have 4 of the best middle forwards in the game, plus Mann playing an old style lock/ball playing role, and latimore doing a job.

Between JDB and Mann they knock out 80 minutes easily.

Between Ah Mau, Graham, Vaughan and latimore they easily cover the 40 minutes average that we need from them.

So what to do with the extra player? If you add him as a middle who do you take minutes off? LAM and Latimore are the middles playing less minutes, so you would have to think that you take minutes off Graham or Vaughan. Either way, the quality of the player that you replace means that you will be losing something in that position.

If you add him as a second rower, you take away minutes from sims or frizell, who have both been proving that they are legitimate 80 minute players.

So where does the 17th fit? I think it's entirely worthwhile at the moment to give that spot to the young blokes to give them experience, and use them to plug a gap in the event of an injury.

I would guess that if we lose one of Vaughan, De Belin or Graham, the bench will change and we will add a middle (so 3 middles off the bench plus Mann. Maybe Sele and Lawrie), to cover for the loss of a quality long minute middle. Or we add host so that he can play an edge while Tariq and Friz get some time in the middle. Until that happens though, I think we will continue as is.

This is where keeping someone like havilli would have been good. Can give McInnes a break and a big enough body to fill 2nd row if required

 

[Belta]

He wouldn't be an Englishmen if he couldnt

 

[SBD82]

This is where keeping someone like havilli would have been good. Can give McInnes a break and a big enough body to fill 2nd row if required

I thought havilii was very underused when he was with us. He really seems to have found his feet this year.

Giving mcinnes a break wouldn't have been useful so far this year. He has given great service for the whole game. Hopefully he doesn't wear out towards the back end of the season.

 

[RufusRex]

This is where keeping someone like havilli would have been good. Can give McInnes a break and a big enough body to fill 2nd row if required

Last year we should have seen Havili fill the Mann role on the bench playing 9/13 and allowing Cam as well as JDB to have a break. The fourth benchie then is an edge forward.

Didn't happen and two things occurred
1. We fell away badly at the end of the season
2. Havili left to chase opportunities


Now Mann plays that 9/13 sub role with Hunt going into 9 in the one game Cam had a rest and Robson wasn't playing.

Still think another edge on the bench would be useful.

 

[ALSGI]

NRL Tipping: What the experts say - Round 10 https://www.nrl.com/news/2018/05/09/nrl-tipping-round-10-what-the-experts-say/

 

[Old Kogarah Boy 1]

NRL Tipping: What the experts say - Round 10 https://www.nrl.com/news/2018/05/09/nrl-tipping-round-10-what-the-experts-say/

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Wouldn't call them experts, ALSGI....................... There's three men that have a 'WO' in front of them, who are having a laugh by tipping Souths to win.

Utter nonsense l say.

 

[ALSGI]

Wouldn't call them experts, ALSGI....................... There's three men that have a 'WO' in front of them, who are having a laugh by tipping Souths to win.

Utter nonsense l say.

Mate you should see my tips this year.
They’re experts believe me!