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Round 14 vs the Raiders

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,328
Griffin doesn't get credit for moving Moylan to 6 after trying everything he could NOT to move him. Anyone who watched Moylan play knew it was where he was destined to play and that unlike Carty he wasnt a temporary solution that stunted his development.

We wasted the better part of a year stunting Cartys development by picking him at 6 and took a year of experience away from Moylan at 6. This is not a master stroke. This is Griffin finally having no other option.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,956
Good to get the win, it wasn't a great performance but it was exciting. Gotta work on those last tackles.
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,328
Good to get the win, it wasn't a great performance but it was exciting. Gotta work on those last tackles.
It was a good performance though. It was a frantic paced game against a side that is hard to stop with momentum.

The refs gave them a ridiculous amount of penalties to put us under pressure too. That 'shoulder charge' penalty led to a try and another try in that second half was from Wighton knocking on into Edwards.

Normally those calls going against us would be the start of us being smashed. But we hung in and never gave up hope.
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,328
Looking at the stats...

Raiders had 53% possession
Raiders won penalty count 10 to 7
Raiders had an 81% completion rate to our 68%
Raiders had 18 offloads to our 7
Raiders missed 37 tackles. We missed 54.

But we won. With the refs all but handing Raiders 2 tries in that second half.
 

chrisD

Coach
Messages
14,759
What had happened to Whare? He has been almost anonymous the last 2 weeks. No spark in attack and doesn't help carry the ball out our half.
The backline hasn't really been able to get the ball out the back yet. It should come with time and then Whare and Blake should see some worthwhile ball.
 

OldPanther

Coach
Messages
13,404
Looking at the stats...

Raiders had 53% possession
Raiders won penalty count 10 to 7
Raiders had an 81% completion rate to our 68%
Raiders had 18 offloads to our 7
Raiders missed 37 tackles. We missed 54.

But we won. With the refs all but handing Raiders 2 tries in that second half.

This shows how far they've come. Earlier in the year with those stats we gets smashed yet now we win by 4. If we have better completions and a few of the penalties aren't called as they they weren't penalties we win by 20.
 

pandas

Juniors
Messages
238
That's exactly my point though. Anything he gets right is put down to his hand being forced... but anything that goes against us is entirely his fault. He's in a lose lose situation.

How often to you see a young side play to their potential from Rnd 1? Especially a side with a new spine. No doubt he would of been disappointed to start the season but his job description isn't to have the team leading the comp by Rnd 10, its to win the comp or at least be a threat. We're not there yet but it's looking likely we'll be there at the business end.

Despite what other people on here have said, players continue to re-sign for less money to stay at the club which is massive feather in his cap as well.
We could win a comp under Griffin and the know-it-alls would still complain about him haha
 

Pomoz

Bench
Messages
2,989
To say he (Hook) put Carty there when he could have put Moylan instead ignores the reality at the time. We didn't have a viable replacement fullback. Edwards was not ready (I'm glad he left Edwards out, the extra years physical development has helped him no end) and DWZ is not a fullback. Smith was not a good replacement. Once the injuries occurred and it was obvious Soward was on one leg, it was better for the balance of the team to use Cartwright there then put in a dodgy fullback. History shows it got us two games away from a GF, so he is not a complete muppet as some would believe. I think the tactic for Moylan to step up as a virtual 5/8th when it was needed worked well. Not the best outcome, a better fullback would have been, but it helped unleash Moylan's ball playing.

I'm no Hook apologist but stop rewriting history like he could have put Slater at the back and Moylan at 5/8th, Smith and DWZ were his options. Cartwright delivered 11 line break assists, 77 offloads, 10 try assists, 60 tackle busts and 10 line breaks. Oh and he scored 8 tries. Incidentally, 4 more than Moylan. And before somebody lists all the errors and missed tackles Cartwright makes, I will do it for you. He made 33 errors. He also missed 77 tackles. Mind you since he made 679 tackles, the third highest in the team, his defence was better than every other 5/8th in the NRL.

Honestly the way people talk in this forum, you would think Cartwright was an imbecile who delivered nothing as a 5/8th and Hook should coach under 11's.
 
Messages
21,880
To say he (Hook) put Carty there when he could have put Moylan instead ignores the reality at the time. We didn't have a viable replacement fullback. Edwards was not ready (I'm glad he left Edwards out, the extra years physical development has helped him no end) and DWZ is not a fullback. Smith was not a good replacement. Once the injuries occurred and it was obvious Soward was on one leg, it was better for the balance of the team to use Cartwright there then put in a dodgy fullback. History shows it got us two games away from a GF, so he is not a complete muppet as some would believe. I think the tactic for Moylan to step up as a virtual 5/8th when it was needed worked well. Not the best outcome, a better fullback would have been, but it helped unleash Moylan's ball playing.

I'm no Hook apologist but stop rewriting history like he could have put Slater at the back and Moylan at 5/8th, Smith and DWZ were his options. Cartwright delivered 11 line break assists, 77 offloads, 10 try assists, 60 tackle busts and 10 line breaks. Oh and he scored 8 tries. Incidentally, 4 more than Moylan. And before somebody lists all the errors and missed tackles Cartwright makes, I will do it for you. He made 33 errors. He also missed 77 tackles. Mind you since he made 679 tackles, the third highest in the team, his defence was better than every other 5/8th in the NRL.

Honestly the way people talk in this forum, you would think Cartwright was an imbecile who delivered nothing as a 5/8th and Hook should coach under 11's.

You say "DWZ is not a fullback" and then give no analysis as to why.

This is a guy who played a lot of that position as a junior through to the u20's.

I'm stunned someone wouldn't see him as a viable option at the back, there are worse fullbacks in the comp now.

He's added nice bulk and is running the ball back harder than ever before, he has plenty of experience under high balls and I've never seen him as mistake prone.

So genuinely interested as to why you don't see him as a fullback?
 

chrisD

Coach
Messages
14,759
Yeah well you all wanted to write Hardaker off after his first game and the only he got at fullback, a game which we played without Moylan, against the premiership winners on a million game winning streak. He did what everyone wanted then.
So genuinely interested as to why you don't see him as a fullback?
He was junk every first grade or trial chance he got.
 

Pomoz

Bench
Messages
2,989
You say "DWZ is not a fullback" and then give no analysis as to why.

This is a guy who played a lot of that position as a junior through to the u20's.

I'm stunned someone wouldn't see him as a viable option at the back, there are worse fullbacks in the comp now.

He's added nice bulk and is running the ball back harder than ever before, he has plenty of experience under high balls and I've never seen him as mistake prone.

So genuinely interested as to why you don't see him as a fullback?
Fair enough. I believe DWZ has dodgy hands and drops the ball in tackles and under the high ball. This is based on what I have witnessed when he has played at fullback and on the wing and also from stats I reviewed when he played there. I would like to be able to show them to you but they are no longer available from 2015 and 2016. Having said that, I think DWZ hands have improved and I wouldn't worry about him as much now. His defence is good, but like Moylan, his anticipation of where to be didn't seem that good. To be fair he didn't get a long time at fullback to learn the position.

Trouble is, it's probably too late now, Edwards is showing he is the real deal.
 
Messages
21,880
He was junk every first grade or trial chance he got.

Which is been ages since those. He's progressed as a player since then, to say he wasn't a viable option to try at fullback is overreach. Particularly given we were trying a second rower at 5/8.
 
Messages
17,744
Moylan is as shaky under the highball. Too small and timid to stop players scoring and cant return kicks.
1.DWZ
6.Moylan was the simplest coaching call in rugby league history
 
Messages
21,880
Fair enough. I believe DWZ has dodgy hands and drops the ball in tackles and under the high ball. This is based on what I have witnessed when he has played at fullback and on the wing and also from stats I reviewed when he played there. I would like to be able to show them to you but they are no longer available from 2015 and 2016. Having said that, I think DWZ hands have improved and I wouldn't worry about him as much now. His defence is good, but like Moylan, his anticipation of where to be didn't seem that good. To be fair he didn't get a long time at fullback to learn the position.

Trouble is, it's probably too late now, Edwards is showing he is the real deal.

His error count for 2016 was 20, very much standard for a winger. (High overall but wingers get more pressure with kicks etc)

I can only disagree and say he was easily a viable option last year.

Plus it's definitely not too late, we'll be under pressure to re-sign Edwards & even if we do there are no guarantees his few good games will translate to a career. Seen so many flashes in the pan as a panthers supporter.
 

chrisD

Coach
Messages
14,759
Which is been ages since those. He's progressed as a player since then, to say he wasn't a viable option to try at fullback is overreach. Particularly given we were trying a second rower at 5/8.
6 or so weeks ago sure. But he didn't trial well there at the start of this season. Well actually he trialled pretty terribly there.
 

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