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Round 15 - v Manly

st.phil

Bench
Messages
4,307
Sloan is just struggling to get into space at the moment, same vs Tigers. His defence was great one on one, it's his positional play that can be way to lax and inability to say "pass me the fkn ball" that is holding him back. Also just wish he'd dive in vain even if he knows its not gonna save a try

Far from our worst tho yesterday... dunno why he's copping it
 

Lovemedragons

Juniors
Messages
1,427
My gripe after the game was at the PC, where our captain once again admitted that his kicking game on the day wasn't good enough. Fair enough I suppose, at least he acknowledged it. But this has happened so often now that I think Ben needs to actually do something about it! Either practice your kicking game until you get good at it or let someone else do the kicking! They couldn't be any worse.
he has been around for a long long time so its very telling that his kicking game is so ordinary, and it is, and has been for years. He needs to play at 9 where he is really good and we need to find a halfback who can manage a game.
 

Slippery Morris

First Grade
Messages
7,672
Hunt played an awesome game against the Tigers and probably one of his worst against Manly. That game was a game of 2 halves. 1 half that knows how to manage a game to suit the teams and the game the other half absolutely clueless with a shocking kicking game. The 2 kicks dead ended up in tries and Lomax flick passing to nobody early in the tackle 20 meters from the tryline. That was the difference. Someone said that the boys were probably looking at going to Origin camp or the weeks rest with the bye were spot on.

The only guys I can honestly say do not deserve any negativity from the fans are Frank Molo and Mat Feagai (the one with the head band). Those 2 tried their backsides out. The rest were in holiday mode. They started well and were in control. With all the offloads and breaks they were carving up Manly and it was a matter of how much they will win by. With Manly players getting injured by the bucket load the signs were there for a big win. Not for these guys. Back to their old ways with really dumb footy. I think Blocker summed it perfectly with Manly really taking chances and creating chances whilst Dragons playing conservative and they have a full bench. Manly even through out a guy on the field who was playing on 1 leg that made more impact than some of the forwards at Saints.

Saints win this and they are top 8 with a bye this week and they simply blew it. I had some tiny hope Saints may sneak into the 8, this last game simply showed that they do not have the smarts to do so. My tip is Eels and Souths will now finish ahead of Saints. Saints will avoid spoon but maybe by a few points.

With recruitment the way it is going, I cannot see much change next season as nobody simply wants a bar of Saints.
 
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Dragon David

First Grade
Messages
8,216
Hunt played an awesome game against the Tigers and probably one of his worst against Manly. That game was a game of 2 halves. 1 half that knows how to manage a game to suit the teams and the game the other half absolutely clueless with a shocking kicking game. The 2 kicks dead ended up in tries and Lomax flick passing to nobody early in the tackle 20 meters from the tryline. That was the difference. Someone said that the boys were probably looking at going to Origin camp or the weeks rest with the bye were spot on.

The only guys I can honestly say do not deserve any negativity from the fans are Frank Molo and Mat Feagai (the one with the head band). Those 2 tried their backsides out. The rest were in holiday mode. They started well and were in control. With all the offloads and breaks they were carving up Manly and it was a matter of how much they will win by. With Manly players getting injured by the bucket load they signs were there for a big win. Not for these guys. Back to their old ways with really dumb footy. I think Blocker summed it perfectly with Manly really taking chances and creating chances whilst Dragons playing conservative and they have a full bench. Manly even through out a guy on the field who was playing on 1 leg that made more impact than some of the forwards at Saints.

Saints win this and they are top 8 with a bye this week and they simply blew it. I had some tiny hope Saints may sneak into the 8, this last game simply showed that they do not have the smarts to do so. My tip is Eels and Souths will now finish ahead of Saints. Saints will avoid spoon but maybe by a few points.

With recruitment the way it is going, I cannot see much change next season as nobody simply wants a bar of Saints.
The truth is the Dragons just aint a team brimming with quality players and when the chips are down and the leader(s) don't want to put in, we lose direction (whatever direction we have been heading) and all things go pear shape with the defence and attack. If we had some quality attack we could have won. If we had quality defence, we could have won. We had neither and the result in the end showed that.

Our up and down season shows that we are still not a club with finals ability and next year could very well be the same. Quality is the name of the game. Get quality recruitment personnel, good quality coaches and if we can get quality players as a result, then maybe we will have the chance to be more consistent with our results (with wins that is, not losses).

The usual clubs with quality players will maintain their higher position on the ladder but still even though they have plenty of quality players, they have been shown that they are beatable and there isn't that complete domination in the past coup[le of years possibly due to the new rules and the pace of the game and of course the injuries (a lot of concussion ones) and suspensions.

Manly looked done with the injuries that they had, however, Seibold made sure the players played for each other and to try different things. He knew he had more quality players in his ranks and a great captain to lead them against our "best" and "less" fewer quality players.

Speed and a lot more toughness and resilience won the day.
 

BlackDuckSaint

Juniors
Messages
657
The issue I had with the game yesterday was the lack of adventure in the second half.

We bombed some tries in the first half, sure. But I was enjoying the width we were playing with. Offloads and spreads, inside/outside balls, space being created on the edges with 2 and 3 man over laps.

Then, I suspect, in his halftime address, Flanno told the team to stop pushing the pass, which is fair enough, we seemed a bit kick and pass happy and needed to execute better.

But the teams response, and I think this falls on SFlan and Hunt for not setting expectations properly or not executing the game plan properly, was to stop playing any footy whatsoever. Which was evident after Hunt kicked the 40/20. That attacking set was the least creative set of 6 I have ever seen. Asked absolutely no questions of the defence. No sweep plays. Nothing. After that, I knew we were in trouble because Manly had nothing to lose. Which made them dangerous, especially with a half that was willing to take risks like DCE.

We got stuck in Hook ball, 5 hit ups and a kick, so afraid of making mistakes that we forgot we were trying to win a game, not waiting for Manly to lose.
 

FlickFlano

Juniors
Messages
365
Marshcke in that game he played was pretty solid ... a varied kicking game, getting the ball into right places.
didnt rely on one play every 5th ...

The thing about him is that it forced Kyle to be more dominant as well.

The first half of that game was a mess because the entire team is so used to Hunt trying to do everything that they just sat back. After Half Time when Flano got to talk to them they came out with purpose and energy and more importantly the confidence to actually play footy.

I think with Marshcke/Flano in the halves yesterday we actually win .. same with the sharks game. but instead we have a press conference with the Bunt telling us what we know - he cant kick and he cant organise.
 

kit66

Bench
Messages
3,833
I just re-watched our first half and hadn't realized just how many tries we bombed, the score could literally have been about 40-4 or 7 tries to 1 before the halftime whistle (Olakau'atu's try shouldn't have been awarded - we were denied one last week for a much softer obstruction - this one was obvious).

7 tries.

1. 3rd minute - Hunt kicks for Lomax with the line wide open, gets a bad bounce, try gone begging.
2. 9th minute - Zac dives over, drops the ball, no try.
3+4. 11th and 14th mins - tries to Liddle and Kyle
5. 30th minute - Kyle makes a great break then backs it up with a nice pass to Hunt onto Sloan and Sloan instead of passing to any number of his team mates, kicks instead - bombed try !
6. 35th minute Hunt over but held up.
7. 37th minute, great movement down the field and a raid to our left - 2 man overlap, just needs a good pass from Luc and he drops it.

7 opportunities for just 2 completions. But we really threw the ball around, Kyle was enormous in attack and defence and Hunt was ok apart from a drop ball. We lacked finesse, we lacked impact off the bench and from our starters apart from Frankie Molo and some good runs from Eisenhuth and Luc out wide. Suli would have been great yesterday. But I'm seeing some real improvement out there, lots of bodies in motion, off loads, support and decoy runs galore and it was paying off with some good movement downfield and breaks. Matt F and Tuipulotu were a bit lost in defence but we held our own in the first half. Lots of positives. Kyle has improved out of sight. If Frankie had a decent partner out there, making the hard yards from the outset Hunt and Kyle would have that little bit of extra time and space and things wouldn't be so rushed and manic. I'd give anything to see us just click, get it right for 60-80minutes and put away a big fish in style. We're heading in the right direction.
 
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Sage63

Juniors
Messages
207
I just re-watched our first half and hadn't realized just how many tries we bombed, the score could literally have been about 40-4 or 7 tries to 1 before the halftime whistle (Olakau'atu's try shouldn't have been awarded - we were denied one last week for a much softer obstruction - this one was obvious).

7 tries.

1. 3rd minute - Hunt kicks for Lomax with the line wide open, gets a bad bounce, try gone begging.
2. 9th minute - Zac dives over, drops the ball, no try.
3+4. 11th and 14th mins - tries to Liddle and Kyle
5. 30th minute - Kyle makes a great break then backs it up with a nice pass to Hunt onto Sloan and Sloan instead of passing to any number of his team mates, kicks instead - bombed try !
6. 35th minute Hunt over but held up.
7. 37th minute, great movement down the field and a raid to our left - 2 man overlap, just needs a good pass from Luc and he drops it.

7 opportunities for just 2 completions. But we really threw the ball around, Kyle was enormous in attack and defence and Hunt was ok apart from a drop ball. We lacked finesse, we lacked impact off the bench and from our starters apart from Frankie Molo and some good runs from Eisenhuth and Luc out wide. Suli would have been great yesterday. But I'm seeing some real improvement out there, lots of bodies in motion, off loads, support and decoy runs galore and it was paying off with some good movement downfield and breaks. Matt F and Tuipulotu were a bit lost in defence but we held our own in the first half. Lots of positives. Kyle has improved out of sight. If Frankie had a decent partner out there, making the hard yards from the outset Hunt and Kyle would have that little bit of extra time and space and things wouldn't be so rushed and manic. I'd give anything to see us just click, get it right for 60-80minutes and put away a big fish in style. We're heading in the right direction.
Agree with most of what you say, but I truly believe we need a new captain
 

I'm Hornby

Juniors
Messages
715
Marshcke in that game he played was pretty solid ... a varied kicking game, getting the ball into right places.
didnt rely on one play every 5th ...

The thing about him is that it forced Kyle to be more dominant as well.

The first half of that game was a mess because the entire team is so used to Hunt trying to do everything that they just sat back. After Half Time when Flano got to talk to them they came out with purpose and energy and more importantly the confidence to actually play footy.

I think with Marshcke/Flano in the halves yesterday we actually win .. same with the sharks game. but instead we have a press conference with the Bunt telling us what we know - he cant kick and he cant organise.
I find your premise that two reserve grade quality halves would do a better job than a rep player would in the halves as quite perplexing.

Whilst Hunt has shown time and time again he isn't the game managing half our team needs, this doesn't all of a sudden make him worse than a reserve grade level player in my opinion.
 

kit66

Bench
Messages
3,833
The issue I had with the game yesterday was the lack of adventure in the second half.

We bombed some tries in the first half, sure. But I was enjoying the width we were playing with. Offloads and spreads, inside/outside balls, space being created on the edges with 2 and 3 man over laps.

Then, I suspect, in his halftime address, Flanno told the team to stop pushing the pass, which is fair enough, we seemed a bit kick and pass happy and needed to execute better.

But the teams response, and I think this falls on SFlan and Hunt for not setting expectations properly or not executing the game plan properly, was to stop playing any footy whatsoever. Which was evident after Hunt kicked the 40/20. That attacking set was the least creative set of 6 I have ever seen. Asked absolutely no questions of the defence. No sweep plays. Nothing. After that, I knew we were in trouble because Manly had nothing to lose. Which made them dangerous, especially with a half that was willing to take risks like DCE.

We got stuck in Hook ball, 5 hit ups and a kick, so afraid of making mistakes that we forgot we were trying to win a game, not waiting for Manly to lose.

I think you nailed it with the Flanno half time talk - "put away the fancy stuff boys". But was that the right approach ? It was working in the 1st half, true, too many errors but we were creating opportunities, should have kept that going, it could well have paid off. We had Manly backpeddling multiple times in the 1st half which saps energy - more in the 2nd half would have had an even greater effect as they were down on troops. Oh well.
 

Lovemedragons

Juniors
Messages
1,427
I find your premise that two reserve grade quality halves would do a better job than a rep player would in the halves as quite perplexing.

Whilst Hunt has shown time and time again he isn't the game managing half our team needs, this doesn't all of a sudden make him worse than a reserve grade level player in my opinion.
Disagree. Hunt is a rep player true, but at 9 or off the bench. QLD are too smart to play him at 7 because he gets lost when he is most needed. Thats why QLD wins.
A halfback should be able to kick and should be able to manage a game. Hunt has neither. He is a wonderful 9 though, plays out of his skin every time he is 9. KFlan is not a reserve grade half as you disdainfully inferred, he is no champion but he is not a reserve grader, he is NRL level. Marchke is an unknown, he has had one full game which went ok. Dragons aren't getting an kicking/organising 7 from outside in any hurry. And Hunt isn't suddenly going to develop a kicking and organising game at this stage of his career.
Suggesting changing something that clearly doesn't work on a consistent basis is not perplexing to me at all, we are hardly heading towards the 8 with Hunt at 7.

Even Hornby himself had to switch his position for the good of the team.
 
Messages
513
Disagree. Hunt is a rep player true, but at 9 or off the bench. QLD are too smart to play him at 7 because he gets lost when he is most needed. Thats why QLD wins.
A halfback should be able to kick and should be able to manage a game. Hunt has neither. He is a wonderful 9 though, plays out of his skin every time he is 9. KFlan is not a reserve grade half as you disdainfully inferred, he is no champion but he is not a reserve grader, he is NRL level. Marchke is an unknown, he has had one full game which went ok. Dragons aren't getting an kicking/organising 7 from outside in any hurry. And Hunt isn't suddenly going to develop a kicking and organising game at this stage of his career.
Suggesting changing something that clearly doesn't work on a consistent basis is not perplexing to me at all, we are hardly heading towards the 8 with Hunt at 7.

Even Hornby himself had to switch his position for the good of the team.
On your politics I totally disagree but regarding the Dragons - This post nails it
 

I'm Hornby

Juniors
Messages
715
Hunt is a reserve grade level organising halfback .. he is an elite level Hooker and running 5/8
I'm not sure Marshke at halfback is the answer and to say we would've won v Manly and Sharks with Marshke and Fraudagan junior in the halves is a bit outlandish to say the least.

Yes Hunt isn't the answer at halfback but is he not leading the competition in try assists currently?

All I'm saying is I'm not sure how you can make such a statement that an unproven reserve grade journeyman would be a better option at 7 than the guy leading the comp for one of the key metrics of a halfback?

Rather than going straight to our scrap pile to replace hunt at halfback, why can't Flanagan either sign a decent organising half from another team or bring through a talented young half back from either our ranks or another teams ranks? I thought pathways was his specialty?
 
Messages
513
Story about players taking dives after Flano Jr incident yesterday.
Happening for ages and because we do it becomes a story and Cameron Smith makes a comment
My response f**k off.
First half he doesn't take a dive when clearly obstructed and a try is awarded (Even the commentators said- if he falls over certain no-try)
Then second half - he stays down to get a deserved penalty then cops a HIA - Can't beat a system that's against you.

As for Cameron Smith - The biggest 'game manipulator', off the ball, of all time - what a joke!
 
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