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Round 20 v Storm

Black Diamond

Juniors
Messages
546
Everyone can see we will struggle this game.

If that was the case how has Origin wrecked our season? And can't win the comp without Cleary etc?

They are posts like our year is gone. when we will still finish 2 or 3. And from that who knows.
I think most of us know we will get through this patch but what we are saying is that we certainly would have been in a better position if Origin hadn't interrupted our run and taken so many of our players to play and then to spit them out injured or contributes towards some of our injuries. However, I do agree that we can't win without Cleary even though you clearly don't think he is that important. He is our game manager, without him, our game management goes to shit. He is that important to our team and our hope of a premiership.
 
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franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,545
I think most of us know we will get through this patch but what we are saying is that we certainly would have been in a better position if Origin hadn't interrupted our run and taken so many of our players to play and then to spit them out injured or contributes towards some of our injuries. However, I do agree that we can't win without Cleary even though you clearly don't think he is that important. He is our game manager, without him, our game management goes to shit. He is that important to our team and our hope of a premiership.

Of the 6 guys we have out. Only 1 is due to SOO.

JFH is just due to the circumstances. He'd be there if not for the 14 day quantine rule.

Api was an idiot has himself to blame.

Yeo if not for the tightening of the HIA would be playing...

Those 3 come back with no lasting affects.

On Cleary.

I don't think he won't get through the season. He will probably have to run the ball less and stuff like that... still we are by far the best side even with that.

As for not winning IF he doesn'get through for some reason. It is hard to say because we haven't had him as the only player out.

I have been watching a few Kayo minis in lockdown and the good well work tries. Yeo is in 1st reciever. Draws a defender than gives it to Cleary who has more space as a result.

The structure is still going to be there and will still work IF the rest of the side plays. Both our losses he wasn't there for aswell nor was Luai.
 

PANTHERMIKE

Juniors
Messages
1,148
Injuries blow, but i can see the actual positives in our current prediciment.

Cleary - Well Rested
Api - Rested
Fish - Rested
To'o - Ready to fire for finals
Yeo - Deserved break and rest
May - Out (and hopefully not back)

Throw in a raging TPJ and i think any club would like to be sitting equal first 6 weeks out.

Yes we may get pumped on Saturday night, but i think keeping them below 30 will be a win and a confidence boost given who is currently out and the squad taking on a basically full strength Storm outfit.
 

Goonji

Juniors
Messages
55
With another covid breath by James Roberts admittedly it a minor one .i doubt we see the season out .the Qld government must be on the verge of shutting it down
The only thing that will save the NRL is that the Grand Final will probably be held in Brisbane due to COVID runnng rampant in Sydney. QLD wont want to give up that opportunity.
 

Black Diamond

Juniors
Messages
546
Of the 6 guys we have out. Only 1 is due to SOO.

JFH is just due to the circumstances. He'd be there if not for the 14 day quantine rule.

Api was an idiot has himself to blame.

Yeo if not for the tightening of the HIA would be playing...

Those 3 come back with no lasting affects.

On Cleary.

I don't think he won't get through the season. He will probably have to run the ball less and stuff like that... still we are by far the best side even with that.

As for not winning IF he doesn'get through for some reason. It is hard to say because we haven't had him as the only player out.

I have been watching a few Kayo minis in lockdown and the good well work tries. Yeo is in 1st reciever. Draws a defender than gives it to Cleary who has more space as a result.

The structure is still going to be there and will still work IF the rest of the side plays. Both our losses he wasn't there for aswell nor was Luai.
Yes Nathan's injury was the only injury from origin but I believe that the wear and tear on the body from origin contributes to later injuries, hence Luai and Too's injury. Yes Api was an idiot and was his own fault he is not available but it happened during origin period while he was at origin camp. 7 Origin players missing from the team during Origin also impacted on our consistency and this was when we lost that slickness we had been displaying up until Origin. Origin has definitely impacted on our year, in many more ways than the one injury we sustained during the origin campaign.

You have your point of view on Clearys importance to our team and I have mine and they are vastly different.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,545
Yes Nathan's injury was the only injury from origin but I believe that the wear and tear on the body from origin contributes to later injuries, hence Luai and Too's injury. Yes Api was an idiot and was his own fault he is not available but it happened during origin period while he was at origin camp. 7 Origin players missing from the team during Origin also impacted on our consistency and this was when we lost that slickness we had been displaying up until Origin. Origin has definitely impacted on our year, in many more ways than the one injury we sustained during the origin campaign.

You have your point of view on Clearys importance to our team and I have mine and they are vastly different.

We had games last year without Origin where the intensity dropped off. It is impossible to be up for the whole season so with or without Origin we would had the lull. Aside from Toó we will all be back and fit and no reason to say we don't get back to it. Once everyone is back.

I don't think people realise how good this side is. It will go down as one of the greats with or without a premiership

Looking at the best record ever in the game. Last year and this years side sits in the top 5. Storm this year is best ever...As far as points differential goes. We sit at 5th. Last years side was 3rd.

Last year. 5 players including Cleary were named in the NRL team of the year. Was that all because of him?

What about JFH winning NZ player of the year?

The 7 SOO players only got there because of Cleary? The Dally M player of the year was pushed out to accommodate Luai.

The side is stacked. So yes they can carry a busted Cleary as Roosters carried a busted Cronk in the GF a few years ago
 

Black Diamond

Juniors
Messages
546
We had games last year without Origin where the intensity dropped off. It is impossible to be up for the whole season so with or without Origin we would had the lull. Aside from Toó we will all be back and fit and no reason to say we don't get back to it. Once everyone is back.

I don't think people realise how good this side is. It will go down as one of the greats with or without a premiership

Looking at the best record ever in the game. Last year and this years side sits in the top 5. Storm this year is best ever...As far as points differential goes. We sit at 5th. Last years side was 3rd.

Last year. 5 players including Cleary were named in the NRL team of the year. Was that all because of him?

What about JFH winning NZ player of the year?

The 7 SOO players only got there because of Cleary? The Dally M player of the year was pushed out to accommodate Luai.

The side is stacked. So yes they can carry a busted Cleary as Roosters carried a busted Cronk in the GF a few years ago
Look, we are not going to agree on this, in my opinion, we are a better team with Cleary in it, simple as that.
 

Girds89

Juniors
Messages
926
Even on this weeks side. If we weren't playing the Storm we'd still be favourites.

Plenty of sides would kill to have 3 current Origin players in their squad

Brisbane have Haas, Fledger, Xavier Coates.... all from this years origin teams in there squad. Hasnt helped them cause yep you guessed it, theyre halves suck.

No ones being negative, just realistic. Cleary out is huge. If he can get back fit and firing anything is possible regardless to who else is out.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,545
Brisbane have Haas, Fledger, Xavier Coates.... all from this years origin teams in there squad. Hasnt helped them cause yep you guessed it, theyre halves suck.

No ones being negative, just realistic. Cleary out is huge. If he can get back fit and firing anything is possible regardless to who else is out.

Coates isn't in 1st grade though.. So I dare say it is him.

How are Roosters and Sharks going with rubbish halves?

We wouldn't be as good agreed but that is ignoring how good the rest of side is.

Origin hooker and still Origin half in the side
 

Girds89

Juniors
Messages
926
We had games last year without Origin where the intensity dropped off. It is impossible to be up for the whole season so with or without Origin we would had the lull. Aside from Toó we will all be back and fit and no reason to say we don't get back to it. Once everyone is back.

I don't think people realise how good this side is. It will go down as one of the greats with or without a premiership

Looking at the best record ever in the game. Last year and this years side sits in the top 5. Storm this year is best ever...As far as points differential goes. We sit at 5th. Last years side was 3rd.

Last year. 5 players including Cleary were named in the NRL team of the year. Was that all because of him?

What about JFH winning NZ player of the year?

The 7 SOO players only got there because of Cleary? The Dally M player of the year was pushed out to accommodate Luai.

The side is stacked. So yes they can carry a busted Cleary as Roosters carried a busted Cronk in the GF a few years ago

The way we have played since cleary has been out the reality is none of them probably get picked.

Players get picked and notticed when a team is doing well. Weve been playing like dog shit..

Franklin no one cares about where you finished up in history cause of your points differential lol. Panthers fans will rememver the brilliant seasons but ask any nrl fan and theyd said the most memorable thing is to win the comp....daylight second for anything else.

You have never really come round to cleary have you? I spent years reading these forums before posting and the absolute dribble you used to post about cleary has backfired and you are still to stubborn to admit youve been wrong and still are.

Hes not a one dimensional player..
He doesnt have a poor kicking game
Hes running game is actually very good
Hes not just a number 9
He has already taken us to a gf in his young career.

Hes turned into the best player in the game and a lot of the good stuff that has happened at penrith the last 2 seasons has a lot to do with him turning into a genuine superstar..
 

The Realist

Juniors
Messages
1,079
We're obviously underdogs with these outs, but if Melbourne play like they did against the Cows we get them relatively comfortably imo. I dont think they blow us off the park either way.

If Storm play like they did against the Cows AND we play the way we did against Brisbane - we will lose by 7+. Given the extra outs we have I'd expect 12+ Then factor in the extra IN's they have. We are up against it.

I am personally hoping we don't get pumped by 20+ and have our players confidence shattered.

I would consider anything less then a 12 point loss a moral victory.
 

The Realist

Juniors
Messages
1,079
The side is stacked. So yes they can carry a busted Cleary as Roosters carried a busted Cronk in the GF a few years ago

Extremely well coached 'systems' teams such as Melbourne and Roosters can survive injuries to key players.

Talent/confidence teams like the Panthers cannot.

Origin period is the absolute proof I needed to accurately categorise us. Ivan is not a great coach. He is a relatively average coach with a talented roster that currently has a good internal culture.
 

Pomoz

Juniors
Messages
2,385
I don't agree with Franklins view, but I have criticised Cleary in the past for being one dimensional. I thought he would be a great hooker because early in his career he didn't seem to be able to read the game. I still think he would be a great hooker and as Cameron Smith proved, you can be the best player in the game and influence the team as much as a halfback from that position.

My benchmark was Brandy who had all the skills from the start and could read the game easily. I think Brandy was 20 when he won the Dally M medal as best player. It seemed to come naturally to him and Cleary seemed robotic in comparison.

But there is an old saying that in the end is true in this case, "hard work beats natural talent every time". Cleary has applied himself and worked hard to turn himself into a superstar. He has improved every facet of his game. I can only admire his hard work and dedication to be the best he can be. He could end up being the best player the Panthers have ever had, only time will tell. Right now, just as was the case with Brandy, we can't win a premiership without our number 7. There is a reason Cronk played in a GF with one arm useless and it is not because number 7's aren't crucial to a team winning.

I can only assume a halfback stole one of Franklin's girlfriends.......
 
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franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,545
Extremely well coached 'systems' teams such as Melbourne and Roosters can survive injuries to key players.

Talent/confidence teams like the Panthers cannot.

Origin period is the absolute proof I needed to accurately categorise us. Ivan is not a great coach. He is a relatively average coach with a talented roster that currently has a good internal culture.

Yeah I put him middle of the road coach

That said. We went 4-2 during that Origin period. We currently have 3 origin guys in the side. Another 2 back next week against a battered up Roosters, Then Dragons.

Very likely to be 6-3 during this difficult part of the season.

Lets assume Cleary doesn't play in those. 5-1 record without him is good for the rest of the season
 

BossleyPanther

Juniors
Messages
256
Of the 6 guys we have out. Only 1 is due to SOO.

JFH is just due to the circumstances. He'd be there if not for the 14 day quantine rule.

Api was an idiot has himself to blame.

Yeo if not for the tightening of the HIA would be playing...

Those 3 come back with no lasting affects.

On Cleary.

I don't think he won't get through the season. He will probably have to run the ball less and stuff like that... still we are by far the best side even with that.

As for not winning IF he doesn'get through for some reason. It is hard to say because we haven't had him as the only player out.

I have been watching a few Kayo minis in lockdown and the good well work tries. Yeo is in 1st reciever. Draws a defender than gives it to Cleary who has more space as a result.

The structure is still going to be there and will still work IF the rest of the side plays. Both our losses he wasn't there for aswell nor was Luai.
SOO has put extra strain on the body even though they didn't get injured in SOO, the body would have been fatigue and as for May, playing in a major role would have done the damage with extra minutes etc
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,545
The way we have played since cleary has been out the reality is none of them probably get picked.

Players get picked and notticed when a team is doing well. Weve been playing like dog shit..

Franklin no one cares about where you finished up in history cause of your points differential lol. Panthers fans will rememver the brilliant seasons but ask any nrl fan and theyd said the most memorable thing is to win the comp....daylight second for anything else.

You have never really come round to cleary have you? I spent years reading these forums before posting and the absolute dribble you used to post about cleary has backfired and you are still to stubborn to admit youve been wrong and still are.

Hes not a one dimensional player..
He doesnt have a poor kicking game
Hes running game is actually very good
Hes not just a number 9
He has already taken us to a gf in his young career.

Hes turned into the best player in the game and a lot of the good stuff that has happened at penrith the last 2 seasons has a lot to do with him turning into a genuine superstar..

So last week if Api played and Yeo didn't get knocked out you don't think we wouldn't of played better?

We played like dog shit as you say yet we won it is a sign of a good team.

It isn't just him. I have said generally I don't rate halfbacks...

Lets look at the other top sides.

Hughes isn't Melbournes best player
Reynolds isn't for Souths
Moses probably is for Parra but would he be in the top 20 in the comp?,
Roosters have a child in 7. So not him
Manly well we know Tom Turbo is..

Even further down. Canberra don't have a decent 7
GC see above.

So no a great team is more important then a number 7. Do you think Bulldogs would be a finals side if it had only Cleary?
 

The Realist

Juniors
Messages
1,079
I agree with Franklin. Halfbacks are not as important as they used to be. It used to be Halfback> 5/8 > Hooker > Fullback.

There were exceptions- some coaches like Bennett always preferred the 5/8 as the focal point of attack so his ranking would have been more like 5/8>Hooker>Fullback>Halfback

These days though I would say in general the ranking of the spine would be Fullback>Hooker>Halfback>5/8

Regarding Cleary improving the Bulldogs - I think he'd instantly change them from a bottom 2 team to at least 8-10th.
 

Girds89

Juniors
Messages
926
So last week if Api played and Yeo didn't get knocked out you don't think we wouldn't of played better?

We played like dog shit as you say yet we won it is a sign of a good team.

It isn't just him. I have said generally I don't rate halfbacks...

Lets look at the other top sides.

Hughes isn't Melbournes best player
Reynolds isn't for Souths
Moses probably is for Parra but would he be in the top 20 in the comp?,
Roosters have a child in 7. So not him
Manly well we know Tom Turbo is..

Even further down. Canberra don't have a decent 7
GC see above.

So no a great team is more important then a number 7. Do you think Bulldogs would be a finals side if it had only Cleary?

Sure we wouldve been better but the 7 adds the polish. Api can only do so much from dummy half and yeo is just a link man.

Hughes is the 2nd best halfback in the comp and has been there best and most consistent all year easily lol.. munster is better overall but not this year. Nicho and paps just play behind one of the most dominant packs in the comp. Hughes is a freak.

Have you seen souths without reynolds? Cody is shit... it falls apart for them. Hes the glue.

Moses is there best player

The roosters are coached by one of the greatest coaches of the modern era and walkers been very impressive.

Yes turbo is manlys best but there 7 is the qld and aus #7.

Look at all the teams that have won gfs in the last 20 years. All have great #7s.

Do i think the dogs would be in the finals with cleary.... yes. They can get down to the opposition end but cant score cause there halves are shit. Cleary changes that.

You dont rate 7s.....you truly have lost me. Youd be lucky to find one nrl fan that thinks that.

Cows never win a comp without jt. We dont win ours without gower or brandy. I could go on and on.
 

Girds89

Juniors
Messages
926
The proof of how important your 7 is really is no more evident than in Nathan Clearys development.

He was bagged as a 18 to 21 year old in his first few years in grade for lacking vision, poor kicking game, no running game, poor game management, no try assists etc.

Is it really any coincidence that we have become a powerhouse in exactly the same time frame that Nath has developed into arguably the best player in the game and definitley the best 7....

7s are the most important player in the side and literally the proof is in the pudding with nathan.
 

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