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Round 20 v Storm

WestyLife

Bench
Messages
4,134
When nath was fit earlier in the year edwards looked much better in bacline plays too.

No coincidence that edwards like the rest of the team has really struggled with nath out.

The superstars have the ability to bring the best out in those around them.

Yes which goes back to the conversation about the importance of Cleary in the team.
 

Pomoz

Juniors
Messages
2,378
I have been reading a lot of the commentary from journalists and it really annoys me how lazy they are. They have skewered the Panthers and made some ridiculous statements. "Storm Slaughter", "Storm run riot" and so on. Then we have the commentators saying the Panthers should do better, they are only missing four players and then proceed to list Cleary, Korasaiu, Yeo and To'o as if JFH doesn't exist. Tyrone May deserves an honourable mention to, because he is our most experienced utility player. Six players missing then.

I wasn't happy watching the game and Cleary's coaching frustrates the hell out of me, he is so conservative he probably wears two pairs of underpants in case one of them splits. That said, some perspective is needed in this jizz fest over the Storm and Pinata frenzy over the Panthers.

Let's look at the two teams that took the field and the relative experience of the two. Here are the number of appearances for both teams:

StormPanthers
Hynes29Edwards72
Leremia7Staines21
Smith68Crichton45
Olam57Naden34
Addo-Carr122Jennings65
Munster145Burton23
Hughes78Luai56
Bromwich266Leota98
Smith80Kenny31
Welch111Martin55
Kaufusi147Kikau89
Bromwich186Capewell88
Finucane213Sorenson50
Lewis21Eisenhuth85
Papenhausen50Tago4
Grant25Leniu33
Grant J2Hopgood4
Total1,607853
Average9550
Spine Games332182
Spine Average
83​
46​

Just look at the difference between the two teams. The Storm have nearly double the amount of experience in their team. They have six players with over a hundred appearances, the Panthers have Nil. The Storm's spine have played 332 games and the Panther's 182 games. How did we think we could possibly match this team without our five best players and bench utility? How could any journalist worth their salt not notice this and comment thus? If we were the Bronco's the heading would be "Brave Baby Bronco's make Storm work hard".

Once the whistle blows, all of this is meaningless and you still have to compete, but let's at least acknowledge that the team was really up against it from the start. Considering our relative inexperience, we did Ok. Our forwards held their own, our effective tackle percentage was 86.7 vs 87.1. Tago and Hopgood really look like they are going to be good first graders and Sorensen will make a welcome addition to our club.

Now, having said that, why the hell Cleary won't use an actual halfback at halfback is a mystery to me. Was he hoping that Burton's midfield bomb fest would bore the Storm to tears so we could sneak in and score when they weren't looking? I think he has made a complete mess of managing the SOO halves combination by persisting with May and Burton and leading to avoidable losses. So ineffective was his coaching against the Tigers, the entire Tiger's team could have left the field for a small tea break and we still wouldn't have scored.

I will give credit to Cleary for insisting that we weren't good enough and he wanted more effort. He is setting a high standard and deserves praise for that. Now all we have to do is get him to take off his second pair of underpants, maybe even go commando and play an actual halfback at halfback. Come on Ivan, you know it makes sense.
 

BxTom

Juniors
Messages
1,833
One clutch play doesn't make him a clutch player.

Edwards was good last year (without being great) and started the year great. It looked like he had finally started to get his passing game going through that period.

Been ordinary since. I also remember him bombing a try in the GF when he couldn't perform a simple draw and pass inserting himself into the line at centre.

Upon reflection it seems as though he is only capable of good passes in set plays - and only if the set play goes exactly as rehearsed. Other fullbacks seem to be able to adjust on the fly if a set play isn't smooth - and the best ones have great instinct and put themselves in great positions and can just ad lib play and create something out of nothing. Edwards seemingly can't do either.

He is a Robotic player who fills a role if everybody else is in great form/uninjured. This season, and in particular this game (along with the Tigers game) has exposed him for the limited player he is. If we want to have a Dynasty type squad - we have to look past Edwards as our FB in the medium term.


I've said this at least 1/2 a dozen times before - but we missed a huge trick in not offering Burton the FB slot. I think this has much to do with Ivan being a conservative 'safety first' coach as well as being too sentimental with his charges (T.May comes to mind).

Burton at FB would instantly catapult us into having the deadliest spine. Burton is daylights ahead in play making. He runs better lines, he has great instinct as well. None of this is really 'teachable'. Edwards would obviously be better at positioning and organising - but that is all teachable and comes with experience.

Again I think that comes down to coaching. Bellamy can insert multiple (talented) rookies into fullback and they do well because he can coach them into doing the basics right and fit them into his system.

Ivan is generally afraid to insert a rookie into fullback (unless absolutely forced) and prefers what he is familiar with because he is unable to coach the basics well enough to 'take a chance' and/or his systems don't allow for it. Either way that is on him. I find that quite odd considering that Fullback was his position, though it plays quite differently now compared to in his day.



We are 'picking' on Edwards because he is a spine player and significantly more experienced than several others on that list. Everyone here knows that compared to last year;

Kikau is well down on form
Critta has been very quiet (we are not sure whether it is form, 2nd year syndrome or coaching)
Capes has been phoning it in a little.
May isn't what he was last year
Leota has failed to 'kick on'
Burton is inconsistent (even during a match)
Spencers development has stalled, maybe even gone backward a little.

Chuck in Naden clearly not being what he was for us last year.

The Only players to improve have been Cleary and Yeo.
Sorenson has also been a positive inclusion.
Hop'good and Huth have 'done a job'.

What is most worrying for us really is a recent form treadline as a squad. Most of our players are trending down in form at this back end from our mid season peak against the Bunnies. IMO the most emblematic of that are Edwards and Kikau who you'd expect to 'step up'.

As a squad we are still #2 on the table but in form we are probably #4 or #5.

Sorry for the long Rant.
I suggest that you should start actually watching games before you criticise. Edwards was having an absolute blinder against the storm before he was injured (round 3). Would have been the MOM. https://www.nrl.com/tv/matches/tels...round-3/extended-highlights-panthers-v-storm/
 

age.s

First Grade
Messages
5,944
Now all we have to do is get him to take off his second pair of underpants, maybe even go commando and play an actual halfback at halfback.
I hope Cameron is comfortable sharing a coaches box with one less layer of protection.
 

Girds89

Juniors
Messages
907
I have been reading a lot of the commentary from journalists and it really annoys me how lazy they are. They have skewered the Panthers and made some ridiculous statements. "Storm Slaughter", "Storm run riot" and so on. Then we have the commentators saying the Panthers should do better, they are only missing four players and then proceed to list Cleary, Korasaiu, Yeo and To'o as if JFH doesn't exist. Tyrone May deserves an honourable mention to, because he is our most experienced utility player. Six players missing then.

I wasn't happy watching the game and Cleary's coaching frustrates the hell out of me, he is so conservative he probably wears two pairs of underpants in case one of them splits. That said, some perspective is needed in this jizz fest over the Storm and Pinata frenzy over the Panthers.

Let's look at the two teams that took the field and the relative experience of the two. Here are the number of appearances for both teams:

StormPanthers
Hynes29Edwards72
Leremia7Staines21
Smith68Crichton45
Olam57Naden34
Addo-Carr122Jennings65
Munster145Burton23
Hughes78Luai56
Bromwich266Leota98
Smith80Kenny31
Welch111Martin55
Kaufusi147Kikau89
Bromwich186Capewell88
Finucane213Sorenson50
Lewis21Eisenhuth85
Papenhausen50Tago4
Grant25Leniu33
Grant J2Hopgood4
Total1,607853
Average9550
Spine Games332182
Spine Average
83​
46​

Just look at the difference between the two teams. The Storm have nearly double the amount of experience in their team. They have six players with over a hundred appearances, the Panthers have Nil. The Storm's spine have played 332 games and the Panther's 182 games. How did we think we could possibly match this team without our five best players and bench utility? How could any journalist worth their salt not notice this and comment thus? If we were the Bronco's the heading would be "Brave Baby Bronco's make Storm work hard".

Once the whistle blows, all of this is meaningless and you still have to compete, but let's at least acknowledge that the team was really up against it from the start. Considering our relative inexperience, we did Ok. Our forwards held their own, our effective tackle percentage was 86.7 vs 87.1. Tago and Hopgood really look like they are going to be good first graders and Sorensen will make a welcome addition to our club.

Now, having said that, why the hell Cleary won't use an actual halfback at halfback is a mystery to me. Was he hoping that Burton's midfield bomb fest would bore the Storm to tears so we could sneak in and score when they weren't looking? I think he has made a complete mess of managing the SOO halves combination by persisting with May and Burton and leading to avoidable losses. So ineffective was his coaching against the Tigers, the entire Tiger's team could have left the field for a small tea break and we still wouldn't have scored.

I will give credit to Cleary for insisting that we weren't good enough and he wanted more effort. He is setting a high standard and deserves praise for that. Now all we have to do is get him to take off his second pair of underpants, maybe even go commando and play an actual halfback at halfback. Come on Ivan, you know it makes sense.
Great post.
 

ColdWetPanther

Juniors
Messages
665
When nath was fit earlier in the year edwards looked much better in bacline plays too.

No coincidence that edwards like the rest of the team has really struggled with nath out.

The superstars have the ability to bring the best out in those around them.
Nathan, and Yeo as well, create more time for the outside backs by engaging the inside defenders a lot more than we have seen over the past few games. To a certain extent May also did that in his latter few games (Warriors in particular). Edwards benefits from that; much more effective with a little more time or absorbing contact and then playing on from there, versus creating.

For better or for worse we largely know what we are going to get from Edwards. A lot of good, but obvious limitations.
 

The Realist

Juniors
Messages
1,058
I suggest that you should start actually watching games before you criticise. Edwards was having an absolute blinder against the storm before he was injured (round 3). Would have been the MOM. https://www.nrl.com/tv/matches/tels...round-3/extended-highlights-panthers-v-storm/

I have mentioned his excellent form in that match numerous times mate. No need to repeat myself more than I already do.

Ever since that game though...he has had a bunch of OK games, a few that were goodish (nothing more than a 7/10) and a fair few diabolical games. Just not good enough. If it takes a player more than 10 weeks to find form after an injury - that is on the player. Unacceptable for a spine position.
 

DinkyDi

Juniors
Messages
857
I am unsure where to place this, so I thought I shall put it here. Who is this bloke? Thanks in advance.
 

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ACTPanthers

Bench
Messages
4,097
I am unsure where to place this, so I thought I shall put it here. Who is this bloke? Thanks in advance.
It literally says his name in the pic...

Also, the game day thread for last weeks game was probably a poor choice... General Discussion thread would've been better I'd say.
 
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