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Round 22 vs Rickyless Raiders

jeffdragon

Bench
Messages
2,666
I think there are lot here that are following your trend SBD82. I'd cancel my Kayo too but I still like watching other sports and one of my sons follows/watches the Formula 1 races. I've been watching the Roosters v Cows game and because the Roosters have shown that they are on top in the game, I'm not interested in the outcome. Same goes for some other games being played if the team I want to win is going down. The interest in league has dropped for me as a consequence of the poor years continuing for the Dragons.
I follow heaps of sports.
I play soccer, but I follow the Dragons so much more than any other sports except for my EFL team.
I'd like us to do well but we are hard to watch.
 
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I'm Hornby

Juniors
Messages
419
Oh hey bro, there he is!
What’s your thoughts on Craig Fitzgibbon?
You love a good reference to Fitzy whenever you can don't you mate?

Do you reckon you're more in love with him or is Mary still your all time favourite coach?
 

Crush

First Grade
Messages
8,890
You love a good reference to Fitzy whenever you can don't you mate?

Do you reckon you're more in love with him or is Mary still your all time favourite coach?
You didn’t answer the question.
So I’ll ask again, what do you think of Fitzgibbon?
Still reckon he’s all hype and that a rookie coach doesn’t make the step up to head coach and have immediate success?
 

I'm Hornby

Juniors
Messages
419
You didn’t answer the question.
So I’ll ask again, what do you think of Fitzgibbon?
Still reckon he’s all hype and that a rookie coach doesn’t make the step up to head coach and have immediate success?
I did answer the question.
My thoughts on Fitzy are that you reference him an awful lot for a 'dragons supporter' and I wonder whether you prefer him or Mary who you have a long record of supporting, as a coach.

This came after I provided you a comprehensive response as to why the sack the coach mantra is shortsighted which you neglected to acknowledge and instead randomly asked me what my thoughts on another team's coach are.
 

Crush

First Grade
Messages
8,890
I did answer the question.
My thoughts on Fitzy are that you reference him an awful lot for a 'dragons supporter' and I wonder whether you prefer him or Mary who you have a long record of supporting, as a coach.

This came after I provided you a comprehensive response as to why the sack the coach mantra is shortsighted which you neglected to acknowledge and instead randomly asked me what my thoughts on another team's coach are.
Yep, thought so…
 

I'm Hornby

Juniors
Messages
419
Yep, thought so…
@Crush I'm sorry but I'm not following your logic here, mate.

Are you trying to say that because I doubted Fitzy's coaching credentials, that somehow impacts my credibility when it comes to my views on the Dragons?

Or are you trying to say that if Fitzy were our coach and not Hook we would be in a better position than we are now?

Or are you trying to say both?

I'm a bit disappointed in your initial response to me this afternoon as I went to the trouble of analysing a few things which show the main issues at the dragons are:

1) We aren't producing players of quality to play representative football which is clear by the decline when comparing this over the decade.

2) We aren't producing quality juniors or have sufficient depth around the first grade squad to challenge for Premierships in jersey Flegg and KOE Cup for the last decade.

Your response then asking my thoughts on Fitzy was bizarre to be honest with you and therefore prompts me to ask you what I've asked above.

Was it or is it not clear to you that by the analysis I provided, it would not matter who our coach is, until the above two things can be addressed we are going to struggle as a team?

If you're of the view that the club had a choice to make Fitzy out coach then you're neglecting the fact that he was approached and declined the role. Presumably because he realised the issues plaguing us (see above) are too much for someone of his character.

I can't even think of a time in my history as a dragons supporter of when everyone had their collective faith placed in players that are still young enough to be playing Jersey Flegg. It really is a damning sign of the times isn't it?

Surely you can see or hopefully now will start to see that the roots of our failure run a whole let deeper than the head coach of the club?
 

Crush

First Grade
Messages
8,890
Game Day!
George has reported Ramsey to fullback, Mbye to 14 which is a huge in for us. It really should be Sullivan to 14 but we’ve discussed enough about the shocking treatment of Sullivan and Sloan so will focus on the positive, Ramsey is back!
Hoping we throw the Hook playbook of 5 hit ups and give it to Ben out the window today against a depleted, coach less Raiders.
Predicting a nail-biter, go the mighties!
 

SBD82

Coach
Messages
15,885
Game Day!
George has reported Ramsey to fullback, Mbye to 14 which is a huge in for us. It really should be Sullivan to 14 but we’ve discussed enough about the shocking treatment of Sullivan and Sloan so will focus on the positive, Ramsey is back!
Hoping we throw the Hook playbook of 5 hit ups and give it to Ben out the window today against a depleted, coach less Raiders.
Predicting a nail-biter, go the mighties!
I think Mbye to 14 is exactly where he should be playing.

1. Ramsay
7. Bud
9. Bunt
14. Mbye

Orange peeler: McCullough.
 

Crush

First Grade
Messages
8,890
@Crush I'm sorry but I'm not following your logic here, mate.

Are you trying to say that because I doubted Fitzy's coaching credentials, that somehow impacts my credibility when it comes to my views on the Dragons?

Or are you trying to say that if Fitzy were our coach and not Hook we would be in a better position than we are now?

Or are you trying to say both?

I'm a bit disappointed in your initial response to me this afternoon as I went to the trouble of analysing a few things which show the main issues at the dragons are:

1) We aren't producing players of quality to play representative football which is clear by the decline when comparing this over the decade.

2) We aren't producing quality juniors or have sufficient depth around the first grade squad to challenge for Premierships in jersey Flegg and KOE Cup for the last decade.

Your response then asking my thoughts on Fitzy was bizarre to be honest with you and therefore prompts me to ask you what I've asked above.

Was it or is it not clear to you that by the analysis I provided, it would not matter who our coach is, until the above two things can be addressed we are going to struggle as a team?

If you're of the view that the club had a choice to make Fitzy out coach then you're neglecting the fact that he was approached and declined the role. Presumably because he realised the issues plaguing us (see above) are too much for someone of his character.

I can't even think of a time in my history as a dragons supporter of when everyone had their collective faith placed in players that are still young enough to be playing Jersey Flegg. It really is a damning sign of the times isn't it?

Surely you can see or hopefully now will start to see that the roots of our failure run a whole let deeper than the head coach of the club?
OK, let me get this straight, in an effort to defend Anthony Griffin you are suggesting that we don’t have the cattle. After he brought guys like McCulloch, Woods, McGuire, Moga, Mbye to the club.
In the past 3 seasons of SG Ball, Illawarra have won the Grand Final once and finished runners up once.
Cronulla Sharks haven’t featured in past 3 seasons GF.
This season I think we had what 1 or 2 origin players?
Did Cronulla Sharks have any? I can’t remember one Origin player from Sharks? Maybe Nicho as development player?
Question, how come Fitzgibbon is able to make a play at the premiership with a team that isn’t stacked full of Origin players and doesn’t have recent SG Ball success? In his first year as head coach after same team missed the finals last year?
Yet Hook can’t get us to be even competitive?
Could it be because Hook is an inferior coach that recruited terribly, didn’t nurture our SG Ball winning talent, and generally has no clue what he is doing in 2022?
Perhaps?
 

I'm Hornby

Juniors
Messages
419
OK, let me get this straight, in an effort to defend Anthony Griffin you are suggesting that we don’t have the cattle. After he brought guys like McCulloch, Woods, McGuire, Moga, Mbye to the club.
In the past 3 seasons of SG Ball, Illawarra have won the Grand Final once and finished runners up once.
Cronulla Sharks haven’t featured in past 3 seasons GF.
This season I think we had what 1 or 2 origin players?
Did Cronulla Sharks have any? I can’t remember one Origin player from Sharks? Maybe Nicho as development player?
Question, how come Fitzgibbon is able to make a play at the premiership with a team that isn’t stacked full of Origin players and doesn’t have recent SG Ball success? In his first year as head coach after same team missed the finals last year?
Yet Hook can’t get us to be even competitive?
Could it be because Hook is an inferior coach that recruited terribly, didn’t nurture our SG Ball winning talent, and generally has no clue what he is doing in 2022?
Perhaps?
The dragons can only sign who we can sign mate. We don't uncle Nick or any other wealthy financial backers to bolster up deals with third party agreements. Hook has also made some decent signings but you've neglected to mention them. Our last premiership winning team comprised a majority of players who had come through our pathways system, so if you're of the view that we have the capability to be a big fish in the NRL player market you're sadly misinformed as that is not the case now and hasn't been historically.

Because of the above, our focus should be on pathways which as I've pointed out to you, has been dwindling for the past decade.

SG Ball is an under 19s competition, therefore the players are typically 18 years old or younger. To use this as a yard stick for almost immediate club success is unrealistic due to the below:

1) These players more than likely won't have fully developed for another 3-5 years.

2) Of the players that do become successful, others won't, which is why we need a full pipeline of juniors ie Flegg, KOE Cup, SG Ball etc this would make sure that we actually did then have a large array of kids to choose from rather than the three we have now.

I'm not going to go in to a full comparison between us and the Sharks and explain to you why they're better placed than we are, but you're welcome to do so if you would like.

What I will say though at a quick glance is the Sharks won the Jersey Flegg comp in 2018, runners up in SG Ball in 2017 and premiers in 2015. They also won Harold Mathews cup in 2015 and as we know were premiers in 2016. This shows they've been working hard on their junior pipeline for sometime now and have naturally progressed them from Harold Mathews, to SG Ball, to Jersey Flegg and to First Grade.
The Sharks also do have more financial capability than us to make the big signings, they beat us in the race to sign Finucane and beat other clubs in the race to sign Hynes, unfortunately I can't remember the last time a player chose us over other clubs offers which again is a damning sign of the times.
 

Crush

First Grade
Messages
8,890
The dragons can only sign who we can sign mate. We don't uncle Nick or any other wealthy financial backers to bolster up deals with third party agreements. Hook has also made some decent signings but you've neglected to mention them. Our last premiership winning team comprised a majority of players who had come through our pathways system, so if you're of the view that we have the capability to be a big fish in the NRL player market you're sadly misinformed as that is not the case now and hasn't been historically.

Because of the above, our focus should be on pathways which as I've pointed out to you, has been dwindling for the past decade.

SG Ball is an under 19s competition, therefore the players are typically 18 years old or younger. To use this as a yard stick for almost immediate club success is unrealistic due to the below:

1) These players more than likely won't have fully developed for another 3-5 years.

2) Of the players that do become successful, others won't, which is why we need a full pipeline of juniors ie Flegg, KOE Cup, SG Ball etc this would make sure that we actually did then have a large array of kids to choose from rather than the three we have now.

I'm not going to go in to a full comparison between us and the Sharks and explain to you why they're better placed than we are, but you're welcome to do so if you would like.

What I will say though at a quick glance is the Sharks won the Jersey Flegg comp in 2018, runners up in SG Ball in 2017 and premiers in 2015. They also won Harold Mathews cup in 2015 and as we know were premiers in 2016. This shows they've been working hard on their junior pipeline for sometime now and have naturally progressed them from Harold Mathews, to SG Ball, to Jersey Flegg and to First Grade.
The Sharks also do have more financial capability than us to make the big signings, they beat us in the race to sign Finucane and beat other clubs in the race to sign Hynes, unfortunately I can't remember the last time a player chose us over other clubs offers which again is a damning sign of the times.
They beat us to the race because of the coach!
Players want to play for Fitzgibbon and don’t want to play for Hook! Nothing to do with financials, we are about to extend an aging halfback on over a million bucks FFS.
End of day, Hook is a goner anyway, he won’t survive much longer.
I disagree that we are dammed regardless of coach, the coach is ultra important to the direction of the club, I use Fitzgibbon as an example of how a good coach brings talent to the club and gets the best out of them.
Hopefully we find a coach of the same mould, and quickly!
 

twinkletoes

Juniors
Messages
660
They beat us to the race because of the coach!
Players want to play for Fitzgibbon and don’t want to play for Hook! Nothing to do with financials, we are about to extend an aging halfback on over a million bucks FFS.
End of day, Hook is a goner anyway, he won’t survive much longer.
I disagree that we are dammed regardless of coach, the coach is ultra important to the direction of the club, I use Fitzgibbon as an example of how a good coach brings talent to the club and gets the best out of them.
Hopefully we find a coach of the same mould, and quickly!
Sorry to say Hook Weill be here next season. Barrett being interviews for assistant coach next year… guess who’s on the interview panel…. You’re favourite coach. Seems to suggest he will be here
 

justadragon

Juniors
Messages
742
Hopefully Ramsay replicates his debut game v Raiders a couple years ago.
i hope so to mate, but really i would have liked to have him recover for the rest of the season without risking his mcl again, its not as if we are going to play finals, but yes all the best to him today. and the dragons as a whole,,, lets see some pride and exciting footy !!!!
 

I'm Hornby

Juniors
Messages
419
They beat us to the race because of the coach!
Players want to play for Fitzgibbon and don’t want to play for Hook! Nothing to do with financials, we are about to extend an aging halfback on over a million bucks FFS.
End of day, Hook is a goner anyway, he won’t survive much longer.
I disagree that we are dammed regardless of coach, the coach is ultra important to the direction of the club, I use Fitzgibbon as an example of how a good coach brings talent to the club and gets the best out of them.
Hopefully we find a coach of the same mould, and quickly!
Don't think that's quite right re Finucane. The Sharks offered more dollars over a longer term and that was enough to get his signature, that is what was widely reported at the time. I don't recall reading anything about it being about the coach, sorry mate. That would be speculation at its best right there.

As I've stated any coach will struggle turning the massive structural issues we have at a grass roots level along with the plethora of other issues around.

The fact that you're willingly ignoring the big issues and taking the simpleton blame the coach approach to me says you'll be bitterly disappointed for a few more seasons (under any dragons coach).

It would be nice to labour under the delusion that in the face of having the most talent deprived pathways in our entire history, none of this would matter if our coach decided to play 3 jersey Flegg aged players in first grade week on week.
 

kit66

Bench
Messages
2,727
The Raiders still have a shot at the 8 with an easier run home than the Roosters so they'll be up for this as a game they'll think they should win. Their attack is as dismal as ours but their defence is as good as some teams in the top 8.
Our bench is looking iffy and of our forwards, Fui, MMolo, JHunt and Burns have just 12 games between them this season (JHunt 11 minutes) and plenty of missed tackles. If Ramsey is back that would help, giving us a bit of speed. We'll need to go around their forwards, no use going up the middle, not many holes there. Go wide and use Moga like we do with Suli (he's a 109kg winger, give him the freakin ball !), use him to punch through the line with Ramsey and Bird backing up.
I don't really care much what happens for the rest of this season, we're not making the 8 and I can't see where any improvement can happen next year but the boys might finish the year with a flurry now the pressure is off to make the 8. If I was them I'd ditch any Hook game plan and just play for themselves and a bit of pride, go for broke.

Dragons by 13+
 

Crush

First Grade
Messages
8,890
Don't think that's quite right re Finucane. The Sharks offered more dollars over a longer term and that was enough to get his signature, that is what was widely reported at the time. I don't recall reading anything about it being about the coach, sorry mate. That would be speculation at its best right there.

As I've stated any coach will struggle turning the massive structural issues we have at a grass roots level along with the plethora of other issues around.

The fact that you're willingly ignoring the big issues and taking the simpleton blame the coach approach to me says you'll be bitterly disappointed for a few more seasons (under any dragons coach).

It would be nice to labour under the delusion that in the face of having the most talent deprived pathways in our entire history, none of this would matter if our coach decided to play 3 jersey Flegg aged players in first grade week on week.
There is a lot to impact here, did you call me a simpleton?
Anyway, let’s call it a day shall we.
 
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