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Round 23 V Souths

Girds89

Juniors
Messages
928
Critta certainly looks the most likely as a fb moving forward.

Edwards will no doubt finish the year in the one but next year its open game imo.

The only problem with moving critta from centre is we arent really stacked in that position and we will be struggling to fill it if he plays fb next year.

For example if he does play in the 1 next year,
Our centres will be a combo of momo, may, tago or jenkins.

May and jenkins arent ready to play centre in the nrl.. especially given no ressies atm. I dont really rate momo as a centre even tho to his credit his been good last few weeks. I rate tago highly and think centre is his best spot..

So as much as it would be great to see critta get more time in the 1 jersey, have to weigh up the balance of the team i guess.

Anyway, thatll be for next year to worry about. He did very well tonight when he moved there and he finally run the ball with plenty of gusto.. hope he can take some real confidence out of that. Even if he does play wing rest of the year, if he brings ball back like that we will be bloody dangerous between him and to'o.
 

Girds89

Juniors
Messages
928
Theoretically if the back 3 was edwards, critta and to'o you could count on those guys taking 4 of the 5 hit ups coming out of our end aftrr a kick..

In a normal set out of our end one of To'o or edwards normally takes 2 hit ups.. so between the 3 thats 4 out of the 5.. and they are all reliable for 10m+ a carry, and all 3 of them are reknowed tackle breakers.

Throw in burton and momo for hit ups who both bring the ball back strong and you almost can get by with your back 5 doing a lot of the grunt work out of your own end.

Real benefit of this is it really allows the forwards to conserve energy for really muscling up in defence and hunting as a pack.

Really cant underestimate how beneficial it is to let the forwards have a breather in our own end whilst the backs chip in.
 

Original Name

Juniors
Messages
604
TPJ for Brisbane played his best most constituent football at prop or lock. At second row he was inconsistent. Strike me as one of those players who needs to be in the middle making tackles and hit ups to be engaged in the game instead of being on an edge where he can fade out of a game and be a bit lazy pressuring halves.
 

Girds89

Juniors
Messages
928
TPJ for Brisbane played his best most constituent football at prop or lock. At second row he was inconsistent. Strike me as one of those players who needs to be in the middle making tackles and hit ups to be engaged in the game instead of being on an edge where he can fade out of a game and be a bit lazy pressuring halves.
Yeah but we are only going to be using him in short spurts.

He often played 80 at brissie and was gassed and stood out wide sucking in the big ones..

He was brilliant at 2nd row when we played them earlier this year.

Im happy for him to play middle but ivan needs to try have some plays to get him isolated against halfs out wide because one on one agaimst smaller blokes he either breaks the line or gets an offload. Using him solely as a battering ram is a waste.
 

Girds89

Juniors
Messages
928
If big villi can build on tonights 2nd 40 mins into the back end of the year we are looking good.

When his at his best his unstoppable. If ivan can get him firing on all cylinders coming unto the finals it woukd be huge for us.

The 2nd 40 tonight was a step in the right direction. One of his best halfs of the year.

The most exciting thing was he looked fired up. Havent seen him with that look for a while.
 

Original Name

Juniors
Messages
604
Yeah but we are only going to be using him in short spurts.

He often played 80 at brissie and was gassed and stood out wide sucking in the big ones..

He was brilliant at 2nd row when we played them earlier this year.

Im happy for him to play middle but ivan needs to try have some plays to get him isolated against halfs out wide because one on one agaimst smaller blokes he either breaks the line or gets an offload. Using him solely as a battering ram is a waste.
Brisbane won the ruck earlier in the year so we didn't have a platform to throw much at them. It's different reading difference of a team that has a platform to attack from like the Storm will when they get ball.

He's capable of big workload in the middle and has done it multiple times. I don't see how he's like Kikau and who doesn't have the stamina on to play consitently for 80 well on edge.

It's either mental and he wasn't being switched on sometimes playing for Brisbane or the decision making is just beyond him to do consitently compared to the middle where he doesn't have to do that and can just tackle hard and run hard. There's a reason props get captain challenges wrong so often. Their job doesn't require the brightest of people.
 

hindy111

Immortal
Messages
41,087
Souths owned Penrith for 30 mins.
Penrith had two tries with a large element of luck with Momos kicks.
Souths dominance was taken away with this and meant a 12-10 lead at halftime.
2nd half Penrith had all the control. I thought your attack was clunky and struggled to score. Korisau late try was more a bit of a end of game Souths gave up one. Prior I felt Penrith struggled to find space. Souths defense was rushing up fast and Luai couldn't get the ball out fast enough when had overlap. They shut it down.
What changed the game? Well Souths 40/20 was a fluke and Edwards dropped ball gave them plenty of a good start.
On flip side they dropped quite a few bombs and the down town penalty also changed the game. In saying that Critchton dropping the ball probably rarely happens.

Sorenson was great as was Momo who cops it on here. Id say he almost won you the game with 2 x sublime kicks. TPJ has not played in almost a month or so but should start at prop.Naden was ordinary. His positioning in attack is off pace.
Burton's step isn't as effective against good sides and was never in the game. Same goes for Luai.
Cleary,Kikau and Yeo standouts...


Moving forward you have these guys to consider :

Too - Takes Naden spot
Jfh - Eisenhuth is an easy one
May - Kenny again easy decision
Spencer - ?? I couldnt drop Sorenson. Bar injury does henplay again?
Tago - ?? He is a centre. So is Burton and Critchton. Unless you drop Momo and Critchton to wing.
Staines - ?? Won't be back.

I reckon you'll see this backoine in finals however -
Edwards
Momo
Burton
Critchton
Too
 

Girds89

Juniors
Messages
928
As I said before, if the Momo kicks were luck so was the Reynolds 40/20.
Reynolds has a brilliant kicking game.

He was clearly going for a 40/20. Selling him a bit short i think. Like cleary hed put countless hours a week into that sort of stuff.

He just executed it perfectly.

Having said that i domt really think the first momo kick was luck either. He cleary looked back at nath and kicked it his direction... nath was more desperate backing up than any bunny so was just a great try.

The kick to critta i think was a bit of a miss kick fluke but you get that sometimes. They got lucky that first try wasnt a penalty on edwards.

I dont think we got the rub of the green at all, of the 11 penalties we got about 4 or 5 were from dumb souths mistakes. 2 accidental offsides, hands in the face of critta, cook grabbing ball when not square etc.

Souths fans can blow up all they like but most the penalties were pretty clear cut.
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
22,079
South’s are a very good team no doubt but I’ve just read the only top 8 side they beat in their winning streak was parra who they played twice in that time. They will be tough in the finals but if we can stay fit we should beat them, we aim up physically like we did in the second half and we will strangle them out if the game, we just need to do it for the full 80. Add fish and bizza to that side last night and we do it a lot more comfortably I think.
 

hindy111

Immortal
Messages
41,087
As I said before, if the Momo kicks were luck so was the Reynolds 40/20.

Um yeah. I mentioned that his 40/20.was a fluke. Close to being out on full.
Momos kicks where assy but if didn’t come off still have them in a position of bother.
But all these kicks where also brilliant and purposely done. Execution brilliant.
 

MrBlack

Juniors
Messages
1,052
South’s are a very good team no doubt but I’ve just read the only top 8 side they beat in their winning streak was parra who they played twice in that time. They will be tough in the finals but if we can stay fit we should beat them, we aim up physically like we did in the second half and we will strangle them out if the game, we just need to do it for the full 80. Add fish and bizza to that side last night and we do it a lot more comfortably I think.
Agree. We still have to add the games best front rower to our team. He would have been massive in that game.
 

Big Mick

Referee
Messages
26,106
One play that I found particularly interesting last night that I hope we go back too more and keep building a foundation on as far as structure leading into the finals was TPJ running the inside post line with Kikau running the straight line off his inside shoulder.

For mine - I think this is a set structure that has the potential to bring joy in three or four forms.

You'd set it up with Cleary floating left - Luai sitting behind Kikau and TPJ - almost in the fullback role with Burton and To'o (by then) playing a bit deeper.

The playset would start by TPJ running the inside post line committing the prop/second rower...and should the 2nd rower slide over to engage TPJ, then depending on how the halfback marking up on Kikau reacts you have your play.

If the halfback slides across to cover the threat of Luai out the back to make sure not to get lost on numbers, then you can throw a flat ball to Kikau - who should have an open path the try if the 2nd rower has been engaged by TPJ's decoy and the halfback has shifted momentum on his outside leg to slide to cover off Luai. At the very least - it'll be a quick play the ball or set restart.

Should the halfback's feet and shoulders show that he is squaring with Kikau, Kikau runs the decoy line, and swing it out the back to Luai, who accelerates fast to engage the centre before the halfback can pivot and recover and scramble to then put it through the hands to Burton and To'o.

Should the opposition Centre/Wing really jam in following the halfback being left flat-footed - then Cleary has the bridge pass to To'o who should hopefully has the rails run to the line.

The reason I like this structure set is because it makes our left side attack even more dangerous as it adds another element too it which defenders need to remain alert for. Both TPJ and Kikau require more than 1 active defender usually to stop momentum and bring down, so if one or both are running decoy lines - it will engage defenders and create opportunities - and then if they bite on Luai's speed there is the opportunity to deploy power.

This sort of play will be critical come finals time when trying to break down stubborn defenses who jam in and can stop block plays because now they'll need to assess the threat of something new.

If the players are disciplined (Not running into defenders to cause obstruction) and can execute smoothly - and Cleary ultimately pulls the right string based on how the 2nd rower and halfback have engaged the TPJ/Kikau runs, then I think it could bring joy for us down the line.

I dunno - the potential of this structure got me really excited about what's to come last night.
 

Fangs

First Grade
Messages
5,556
Huth was alright, and isn't in the top 17 anyway.

TPJ did exactly what he was told and he was great. I much prefer him as a run first offload second player.
 

Big Mick

Referee
Messages
26,106
As Cleary said post match - TPJ's first match in 8 weeks. JFH to come back next week - first match in 4 weeks odd.

I'd be tempted to give Liam Martin 1 week rest in lead up to the finals as he looked a bit tired last night and has been putting in a tonne of work recently.
 

Girds89

Juniors
Messages
928
One play that I found particularly interesting last night that I hope we go back too more and keep building a foundation on as far as structure leading into the finals was TPJ running the inside post line with Kikau running the straight line off his inside shoulder.

For mine - I think this is a set structure that has the potential to bring joy in three or four forms.

You'd set it up with Cleary floating left - Luai sitting behind Kikau and TPJ - almost in the fullback role with Burton and To'o (by then) playing a bit deeper.

The playset would start by TPJ running the inside post line committing the prop/second rower...and should the 2nd rower slide over to engage TPJ, then depending on how the halfback marking up on Kikau reacts you have your play.

If the halfback slides across to cover the threat of Luai out the back to make sure not to get lost on numbers, then you can throw a flat ball to Kikau - who should have an open path the try if the 2nd rower has been engaged by TPJ's decoy and the halfback has shifted momentum on his outside leg to slide to cover off Luai. At the very least - it'll be a quick play the ball or set restart.

Should the halfback's feet and shoulders show that he is squaring with Kikau, Kikau runs the decoy line, and swing it out the back to Luai, who accelerates fast to engage the centre before the halfback can pivot and recover and scramble to then put it through the hands to Burton and To'o.

Should the opposition Centre/Wing really jam in following the halfback being left flat-footed - then Cleary has the bridge pass to To'o who should hopefully has the rails run to the line.

The reason I like this structure set is because it makes our left side attack even more dangerous as it adds another element too it which defenders need to remain alert for. Both TPJ and Kikau require more than 1 active defender usually to stop momentum and bring down, so if one or both are running decoy lines - it will engage defenders and create opportunities - and then if they bite on Luai's speed there is the opportunity to deploy power.

This sort of play will be critical come finals time when trying to break down stubborn defenses who jam in and can stop block plays because now they'll need to assess the threat of something new.

If the players are disciplined (Not running into defenders to cause obstruction) and can execute smoothly - and Cleary ultimately pulls the right string based on how the 2nd rower and halfback have engaged the TPJ/Kikau runs, then I think it could bring joy for us down the line.

I dunno - the potential of this structure got me really excited about what's to come last night.
Great analysis.

Any plays ivan can come up with where kikau or tpj are isolated one on one with a defender close to the try line youd back both in to score.

I said a few times hope we dont just use tpj as a battering ram cause hes capable of so much more. If they want to use him like thst coming out of our end, no dramas, but in the attacking 20 id love to see big kiks and tpj side by side out wide.

Would certainly make it harder for defenders to "load up" on either one. Right now we normally either play flat to kikau and out the back to luai or kikau plays deep and the skip luai to villi. Its been pretty lethal last 2 years. But throw in tpj in there and it could be unstoppable.

Im sure ivan was just easing him in last night. Next few weeks will be exciting..

I agree, lets give some blokes a rest.

Id be tempted to give dylan a rest as his workloads been huge since coming back from injury.

Martin as you said.

Id rest yeo to. And probably nathan last game before the finals. Id even look at giving sorensen a rest tbh. Hes been brilliant.

Wouldnt rest them all in the same game but maybe rest 2 or 3 against tiges than 2 or 3 vs eels.

Having everyone fully hit with no niggles and the batterys recharged will be really handy..

Nathhas shown he can have an extended time out and pick up where he left off so definitkey rest him probs against parra.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,545
Honestly don’t get the criticism of Leota or Huths first stint. South’s could’ve been 20+ up of those boys didn’t dig in. Huth especially is extremely good defensively, gets zero credit because people expect him to turn into Payne Haas overnight.

After 25min. Ave set distances

Souths 36m
Panthers 23m.

If that isn't on the middles who is it?

We were losing the forward battle and as such field position. Sorensen started it and TPJ finished with us on top
 

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