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Round 6 Team vs Sea Eagles

abpanther

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We can forgive that when he is making 50,60 or 70+ tackles a game.

Yeah but is that what we're paying him for? I mean a guy like Docker might make less tackles but at least he makes dominant tackles that actually impact the psyche of the opposition.
 

abpanther

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20,807
Why is Taylor escaping criticism here? His impact with ball in hand is the worst of the lot here.

Well I think that's the issue, we have too many backrowers on the team that aren't metre gainers. Taylor, Cartwright, Peachey and even Yeo are all guilty of this. We can only carry 2 in the team at any one time I think
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,956
I'm beginning to agree with this, I was feeling that Docker was overrated last year but he adds a toughness to our pack that we are lacking at the moment. Too much finesse, not enough grunt and intimidation

Yeah I agree, not sure if Docker is the answer but he brings toughness and intimidation in buckets, Plum being back will help with this.
 

betcats

Referee
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23,956
Yeah but is that what we're paying him for? I mean a guy like Docker might make less tackles but at least he makes dominant tackles that actually impact the psyche of the opposition.

I'd say we are paying him to be our defensive workhorse since he has played that way since arriving here. I have no problem with his metres, he does so much defensive work for us, he is immense on that end, so often when the opposition forwards are getting a roll on he is the first off the line trying to slow them down and gain control again, many times he is the only one.

Forget his stats though, go into the 3,2,1 thread see who is being nominated if you want to see his impact.
 
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abpanther

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Hey I'm not criticising Taylor, he's the least of our worries, but fact is he's not a metre gainer, he's the defensive workhorse that every pack needs (i.e. Sattler).

I'm just not sure that we have the mix quite right at the moment
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,956
Hey I'm not criticising Taylor, he's the least of our worries, but fact is he's not a metre gainer, he's the defensive workhorse that every pack needs (i.e. Sattler).

I'm just not sure that we have the mix quite right at the moment

Yeah I see what you are saying but the part of the mix that is wrong is the props doing f**k all for the most part. Take Taylors defensive workload out of the team and replace it with someone who will give you 100m a game but only 20 or 30 tackles max and i think we come out behind.
 

Copperhead

Juniors
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1,139
Nobody is suggesting Taylor is the problem. But next week Manu should be replaced by BMM, and Brown come back in, probably for Cartwright.

Anderson and Latu should replace Kite and McKendry. At least with Anderson you are guaranteed a high workrate, and Latu a bit of size and impact. Replacing two low impact, lazy props can only be an advantage.
 
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Pomoz

Bench
Messages
2,991
I've never been a fan of over analysing statistics.

One of my mates lives and breathes by stats, and stas alone.

They give an indication of how a player is going, but don't tell the true story. As Kilkenny said. A prop gets to run back the kickoff, which is a gift 20 metres to their stats.

We really miss Lewis Brown. He was in my top 4 every time he played. Probably the most under rated player in the game.

I also think we miss Docker's aggression in defence. Sure he makes a few mistakes, but he softens up the opposition pack which is something we are missing this year.

Well I love stats, they can give you brilliant insights. It's all about the interpretation and backed up with what you can see watching the game. But I understand what you are saying. Numbers say nothing without insights.

That said, "You can't measure it with numbers" is usually called out by somebody who has been challenged about their performance. "Numbers don't explain what I do" they will say. My answer always is "if we can't measure it, how do I know you are doing a good job?". A philosophical argument for another day.

As for Docker, I couldn't put my finger on what he brought to the team (besides the obvious big hits), except we seemed to be better when he played. Gordon Tallis called it out when we played the Dragons. "Once Docker started cutting them in half, they went missing" he said about the Dragons forwards. Their go forward disappeared.

I remember a certain Mark Geyer who had a similar unmeasured impact. "He doesn't make many tackles" one commentator said about Mark Geyer. Well, Col Van Der Voort never worried about MG's tackle count (although E Taylor has since proved Col was a skiving loafer who barely made 40 tackles a game. Bastard). Yeah, good point, he struggled to catch the forwards who made sure they run the opposite side of the field he was on. Or the forwards who passed the ball before they got to him.

Put another way, if Plum, "the axe" Gillmeister, Docker, MG and Peter Kelly were our forward pack (Royce, or Segyaro as hooker would work) I reckon their tackle count would be pitiful. The backs would be tackling their arses off and the wingers would be on some sort of special duties allowance. Stats would be crap, but I would be smiling.
 
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2,494
Maybe we will see that John will do alright when given freedom and control. You'd at least hope. But anyway Ivan has to bring Jennings in if Idris is ruled out because if he puts Yeo in I am not going he is not, not a centre.
 

mxlegend99

Referee
Messages
23,331
Both centres out, both halves out. Backing up from a Monday night game where we have a 0% win rate under Cleary. I think betting the house on Manly is a safe bet.
 

billypilgrimnz

First Grade
Messages
5,169
The annoying thing is that both the Roosters and the Knights have lost their last two games, showing they were hardly formidable opposition either.
 

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