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Round 7 v Roosters

Dragon David

Bench
Messages
2,624
Where's Fuimaono in your team, you stated he was genuine 1st grade material?

We are very long odds to sign Fafita. The Titans offer is massive and something we just couldnt match for a 2nd rower. Also now with the Roosters showing interest why would he come here to our sh*t show, consideringvit would be the same reason he would leave the Broncos

Am I reading right that the Roosters have thrown there tuppence into the ring to get Fifita or showing some interest. Wow and holy cow, I mean cash cow, that would be the meanest thing that would happen.

This is the reason why there has to be some other form of restriction on a wealthy club getting the better players all of the time. Not so much as a Draft system but something similar.

I have read that:-

Primarily, an effective salary cap prevents wealthy teams from certain destructive behaviours such as signing a multitude of high-paid star players to prevent their rivals from accessing these players, and ensuring victory through superior economic power. With a salary cap, each club has roughly the same economic power to attract players, which contributes to parity by producing roughly equal playing talent in each team in the league, and in turn brings economic benefits to the league and to its individual teams.

The NRL needs to ensure a degree of parity between teams so that games are exciting for the fans and not a foregone conclusion. The leagues that have adopted salary caps generally do so because they believe letting richer teams accumulate talent affects the quality of the sporting product they want to sell: if only one or a handful of dominant teams are able to win consistently and challenge for the championship, many of the contests will be blowouts by the superior team, reducing the sport's attractiveness for fans at the stadium and viewers on television. Television revenue is an important part of the income of many sports.

Who would the Roosters give up to sign Fifita? or should I say what players would they say goodbye to so that they can pay for Fifita.
 

getsmarty

Referee
Messages
28,890
Am I reading right that the Roosters have thrown there tuppence into the ring to get Fifita or showing some interest. Wow and holy cow, I mean cash cow, that would be the meanest thing that would happen.

This is the reason why there has to be some other form of restriction on a wealthy club getting the better players all of the time. Not so much as a Draft system but something similar.

I have read that:-

Primarily, an effective salary cap prevents wealthy teams from certain destructive behaviours such as signing a multitude of high-paid star players to prevent their rivals from accessing these players, and ensuring victory through superior economic power. With a salary cap, each club has roughly the same economic power to attract players, which contributes to parity by producing roughly equal playing talent in each team in the league, and in turn brings economic benefits to the league and to its individual teams.

The NRL needs to ensure a degree of parity between teams so that games are exciting for the fans and not a foregone conclusion. The leagues that have adopted salary caps generally do so because they believe letting richer teams accumulate talent affects the quality of the sporting product they want to sell: if only one or a handful of dominant teams are able to win consistently and challenge for the championship, many of the contests will be blowouts by the superior team, reducing the sport's attractiveness for fans at the stadium and viewers on television. Television revenue is an important part of the income of many sports.

Who would the Roosters give up to sign Fifita? or should I say what players would they say goodbye to so that they can pay for Fifita.

Bullseye....in answer to who they would release...someone close to retirement...JWH
 

Dragon David

Bench
Messages
2,624
Bullseye....in answer to who they would release...someone close to retirement...JWH
Well that answer is a bullseye alright. If Fifita wants to join a club like Easts which is based near Bondi Beach and Fifita has indicated that he would prefer a club near water, and Easts have everything to offer like "always" wanting to win premierships, he would take a pay cut and enter a deal much less than what the Titans would offer. The Gold Coast is also near water but, when is it likely to win a premiership? Where is there parity? There is none and clubs like Easts will continue on their merry way to achieve winning premierships regularly turning people off the game in the end.
 

TruSaint

Coach
Messages
18,891
Am I reading right that the Roosters have thrown there tuppence into the ring to get Fifita or showing some interest. Wow and holy cow, I mean cash cow, that would be the meanest thing that would happen.

This is the reason why there has to be some other form of restriction on a wealthy club getting the better players all of the time. Not so much as a Draft system but something similar.

I have read that:-

Primarily, an effective salary cap prevents wealthy teams from certain destructive behaviours such as signing a multitude of high-paid star players to prevent their rivals from accessing these players, and ensuring victory through superior economic power. With a salary cap, each club has roughly the same economic power to attract players, which contributes to parity by producing roughly equal playing talent in each team in the league, and in turn brings economic benefits to the league and to its individual teams.

The NRL needs to ensure a degree of parity between teams so that games are exciting for the fans and not a foregone conclusion. The leagues that have adopted salary caps generally do so because they believe letting richer teams accumulate talent affects the quality of the sporting product they want to sell: if only one or a handful of dominant teams are able to win consistently and challenge for the championship, many of the contests will be blowouts by the superior team, reducing the sport's attractiveness for fans at the stadium and viewers on television. Television revenue is an important part of the income of many sports.

Who would the Roosters give up to sign Fifita? or should I say what players would they say goodbye to so that they can pay for Fifita.

Good post, but respectfully don't agree with the underlying message.

That's not because what you have posted is incorrect regarding the NRL's reasoning for the salary cap, but rather that there must be some semblance of free market and reward for success.

Bear with me...

Without doing any research , i think every club barring NZ and GC have won a title since the cap was introduced. That in itself is amazing. That is a level playing field.

What the Roosters have done in a congested town, is dominate by building a club that attracts players young and old. Not all but many will take par or even a pay cut to be in this environment. They know the upside of being associated with a club that is at the cutting edge will give them opportunities off the footy field as well. Therein come 3rd parties.

Easts didn't do this overnight. In fact they were a laughing stock not long ago. but they should be given credit for now being the benchmark. They don't have the biggest crowds, or fan base, yet they are the envy of the code.

With any salary cap / draft / financial fair play / or whatever, teams and clubs that do well deserve to revel in glory for a while. It's up to the others to catch up. Now the argument will be are they rorting the system? That's on the NRL, not them.
 

Como Connection

First Grade
Messages
5,142
The question we should all ask

When we have a shareholder who is worth almost 200 million more that Politis. Why are we not in the market for him. I know we would end up with Alvaro from Parramatta knowing our luck
Before dad is not interested in spending money, ownership is a gift for his spoilt son who has a hurge ego apparently.
CC
 

Dragon David

Bench
Messages
2,624
Good post, but respectfully don't agree with the underlying message.

That's not because what you have posted is incorrect regarding the NRL's reasoning for the salary cap, but rather that there must be some semblance of free market and reward for success.

Bear with me...

Without doing any research , i think every club barring NZ and GC have won a title since the cap was introduced. That in itself is amazing. That is a level playing field.

What the Roosters have done in a congested town, is dominate by building a club that attracts players young and old. Not all but many will take par or even a pay cut to be in this environment. They know the upside of being associated with a club that is at the cutting edge will give them opportunities off the footy field as well. Therein come 3rd parties.

Easts didn't do this overnight. In fact they were a laughing stock not long ago. but they should be given credit for now being the benchmark. They don't have the biggest crowds, or fan base, yet they are the envy of the code.

With any salary cap / draft / financial fair play / or whatever, teams and clubs that do well deserve to revel in glory for a while. It's up to the others to catch up. Now the argument will be are they rorting the system? That's on the NRL, not them.
A very good response TruSaint, thanks.
 

Belta

Juniors
Messages
1,064
Good post, but respectfully don't agree with the underlying message.

That's not because what you have posted is incorrect regarding the NRL's reasoning for the salary cap, but rather that there must be some semblance of free market and reward for success.

Bear with me...

Without doing any research , i think every club barring NZ and GC have won a title since the cap was introduced. That in itself is amazing. That is a level playing field.

What the Roosters have done in a congested town, is dominate by building a club that attracts players young and old. Not all but many will take par or even a pay cut to be in this environment. They know the upside of being associated with a club that is at the cutting edge will give them opportunities off the footy field as well. Therein come 3rd parties.

Easts didn't do this overnight. In fact they were a laughing stock not long ago. but they should be given credit for now being the benchmark. They don't have the biggest crowds, or fan base, yet they are the envy of the code.

With any salary cap / draft / financial fair play / or whatever, teams and clubs that do well deserve to revel in glory for a while. It's up to the others to catch up. Now the argument will be are they rorting the system? That's on the NRL, not them.


I‘m not saying you are wrong as I haven’t done much research but I’m very suspicious of the salary cap. It’s only my opinion and it differs greatly from yours. What someone recently posted highlights my concerns. It showed a telling statistic. In the last 20 years there only been 2 grand finals that haven’t featured either Melbourne or the Roosters. To me this statistic indicates the exact opposite of a ‘level playing field’ when referring to the last two decades. These two teams and now a few others are steam rolling ahead, whilst others are being left in their wake. Today, looking at the teams, id say I can’t remember of a time when the gap between top teams and bottom teams has been so great. And there is no doubt it will have an effect on the supporter base in the future, one glaring example being the record low numbers at dragons games.

It’s not just the Roosters who easily afford top shelf players, but to keep the post short I could say the top teams have quality throughout whereas the bottom have far fewer quality players.

Now as to the reasons why there is such a disparity exists? We are constantly told, and it gets shouted from the roof tops every time the salary cap is questioned, that there is such a difference in the star quality in teams because of the great coaches and great clubs encourage players to come for considerable less money. I feel the media really pedals this cart really well for the mere fact that it is more palatable the answering an uneven cap. Recently Gould commented that if Trent Robinson had the dragons they’d be premiers within 5 years. Im not convinced comments are even believed by the narrator, but again that’s my opinion.

I think it’s fair to give considerable weight to coaches and clubs for their development of juniors, training, recruitment etc but I’m still not convinced all the cards are on the table. Imsuspect there is far more relevant (mostly under-handed) acts in play. This is of course impossible to prove.

I think the NRL are to blame as they are the adjudicators. I think some are now bigger than the NRL and the NRL have little capacity to intervene. Hopefully I’m wrong but the stragglers like us may soon be left behind and forgotten.
 

TruSaint

Coach
Messages
18,891
I‘m not saying you are wrong as I haven’t done much research but I’m very suspicious of the salary cap. It’s only my opinion and it differs greatly from yours. What someone recently posted highlights my concerns. It showed a telling statistic. In the last 20 years there only been 2 grand finals that haven’t featured either Melbourne or the Roosters. To me this statistic indicates the exact opposite of a ‘level playing field’ when referring to the last two decades. These two teams and now a few others are steam rolling ahead, whilst others are being left in their wake. Today, looking at the teams, id say I can’t remember of a time when the gap between top teams and bottom teams has been so great. And there is no doubt it will have an effect on the supporter base in the future, one glaring example being the record low numbers at dragons games.

It’s not just the Roosters who easily afford top shelf players, but to keep the post short I could say the top teams have quality throughout whereas the bottom have far fewer quality players.

Now as to the reasons why there is such a disparity exists? We are constantly told, and it gets shouted from the roof tops every time the salary cap is questioned, that there is such a difference in the star quality in teams because of the great coaches and great clubs encourage players to come for considerable less money. I feel the media really pedals this cart really well for the mere fact that it is more palatable the answering an uneven cap. Recently Gould commented that if Trent Robinson had the dragons they’d be premiers within 5 years. Im not convinced comments are even believed by the narrator, but again that’s my opinion.

I think it’s fair to give considerable weight to coaches and clubs for their development of juniors, training, recruitment etc but I’m still not convinced all the cards are on the table. Imsuspect there is far more relevant (mostly under-handed) acts in play. This is of course impossible to prove.

I think the NRL are to blame as they are the adjudicators. I think some are now bigger than the NRL and the NRL have little capacity to intervene. Hopefully I’m wrong but the stragglers like us may soon be left behind and forgotten.

Yes, there was a thread with details about the dominance of Easts and Mel. I cant remember which one though.

The cap though has been in existence for over 30 years, it started prior to the NRL.

Salary caps have been part of sport for many years. The NSWRL first introduced a salary cap to Rugby League in 1990 and the NRL has had a salary cap since its inception in 1998.

https://www.nrl.com/operations/inte...L first introduced a,USA also use salary caps.

I take your point about a fear of Clubs being left behind. Its only my opinion that's on the Clubs and not the governing body, be it the NSWRL or the NRL.
 

BLM01

First Grade
Messages
6,667
I‘m not saying you are wrong as I haven’t done much research but I’m very suspicious of the salary cap. It’s only my opinion and it differs greatly from yours. What someone recently posted highlights my concerns. It showed a telling statistic. In the last 20 years there only been 2 grand finals that haven’t featured either Melbourne or the Roosters. To me this statistic indicates the exact opposite of a ‘level playing field’ when referring to the last two decades. These two teams and now a few others are steam rolling ahead, whilst others are being left in their wake. Today, looking at the teams, id say I can’t remember of a time when the gap between top teams and bottom teams has been so great. And there is no doubt it will have an effect on the supporter base in the future, one glaring example being the record low numbers at dragons games.

It’s not just the Roosters who easily afford top shelf players, but to keep the post short I could say the top teams have quality throughout whereas the bottom have far fewer quality players.

Now as to the reasons why there is such a disparity exists? We are constantly told, and it gets shouted from the roof tops every time the salary cap is questioned, that there is such a difference in the star quality in teams because of the great coaches and great clubs encourage players to come for considerable less money. I feel the media really pedals this cart really well for the mere fact that it is more palatable the answering an uneven cap. Recently Gould commented that if Trent Robinson had the dragons they’d be premiers within 5 years. Im not convinced comments are even believed by the narrator, but again that’s my opinion.

I think it’s fair to give considerable weight to coaches and clubs for their development of juniors, training, recruitment etc but I’m still not convinced all the cards are on the table. Imsuspect there is far more relevant (mostly under-handed) acts in play. This is of course impossible to prove.

I think the NRL are to blame as they are the adjudicators. I think some are now bigger than the NRL and the NRL have little capacity to intervene. Hopefully I’m wrong but the stragglers like us may soon be left behind and forgotten.
I think you will find more than 2 in the last 20 yerars that did not feature Roosters / melb ..more like 5..I can think of....maybe more?..3 in the last 9
 
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ChocOConnor

Juniors
Messages
328
Salary cap just doesn’t work for anyone other than roosters.

Heard this morning Buzz telling Daley on radio that the roosters are 500 grand under the cap. Hell we must have some shit accountant.
Apparently they lost Latrell and Cronk.
Latrell was on only 400 grand. They needed to upgrade players so I don’t get how they are still 500 under
 
Messages
3,856
Buzz has become Politis's mouthpiece and is there to combat and defend any thought of them not being compliant.
He is now on the bandwagon also of being anti the Hybrid test at the end of the year because Uncle Nick doesn't like it
 

TruSaint

Coach
Messages
18,891
I think you will find more than 2 in the last 20 yerars that did not feature Roosters / melb ..more like 5..I can think of....maybe more?..3 in the last 9

Since the cap was introduced.

1990 Canberra Penrith

1991 Penrith Raiders

1992 Broncos Dragons

1993 Broncos Dragons

1994 Raiders Bulldogs

1995 Bulldogs Manly

1996 Manly Dragons

1997 Knights Manly

1998 Broncos Bulldogs

1999 Storm Dragons

2000 Broncos Roosters

2001 Knights Parra

2002 Roosters Warriors

2003 Penrith Roosters

2004 Bulldogs Roosters

2005 Tigers Cowboys

2006 Broncos Storm

2007 Storm Manly ( stripped of title )

2008 Manly Storm

2009 Storm Parra ( stripped of title )

2010 Dragons Roosters

2011 Manly Warriors

2012 Storm Bulldogs

2013 Roosters Manly

2014 Souths Bulldogs

2015 Cowboys Broncos

2016 Sharks Storm

2017 Storm Cowboys

2018 Roosters Storm

2019 Roosters Raiders
 
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SBD82

Coach
Messages
13,830
Wanting the NRL to enforce provisions on the Roosters is a pointless attitude in my opinion. And one that will entrench our current standing in the game. It’s a distraction from the real issues. Rugby league is moving forwards, we can either jostle to get ahead of the back, or stand on the sideline complaining about how it’s unfair. If we choose the latter, the stench of Newtown will only increase.

There is absolutely no reason why we shouldn’t be a dominant team like the Storm or Roosters. We should be taking a good hard look at our own club, and figure out what we need to do to be better than them. Roosters undertook this same process in the late 00’s.

They didn’t get to where they are by complaining about fairness.
 

TruSaint

Coach
Messages
18,891
Wanting the NRL to enforce provisions on the Roosters is a pointless attitude in my opinion. And one that will entrench our current standing in the game. It’s a distraction from the real issues. Rugby league is moving forwards, we can either jostle to get ahead of the back, or stand on the sideline complaining about how it’s unfair. If we choose the latter, the stench of Newtown will only increase.

There is absolutely no reason why we shouldn’t be a dominant team like the Storm or Roosters. We should be taking a good hard look at our own club, and figure out what we need to do to be better than them. Roosters undertook this same process in the late 00’s.

They didn’t get to where they are by complaining about fairness.

Yep... If they are rorting the system , they should be punished, but without evidence it's sour grapes.

I am also tired of Clubs looking for additional NRL funds every few years. We were one. If we applied this to the franchise world in general, I would be pissed off if my Franchisor kept on propping up another franchisee just to keep him in business, when I have successfully traded without such handouts.

The trend above shows teams dominating for usually periods of 2-3 years, from early on in the 90's.
Roosters have appeared in 8 grand finals since 2000. That's success.
 
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SGMax

Juniors
Messages
330
Reminds me of the presser after they lost an ANZAC Day game and he sooked about Aitken and the refs and made a complete ass of himself.
Yep, that year they were well beaten. I think it was 2015 when the hail hit and we had a fair try ignored by the refs that would have made the margin even bigger.

I cannot recall a game where they have been beaten by Saints and he has not sooked at the presser.
Its easy to act high and mighty when you have a playing roster that no other team could afford.....and its not because they are good cap managers and very professional.....its because $$$$$ talks (in whispers behind closed doors). Rant over for now.
 

denis preston

First Grade
Messages
5,786
Irrespective ,the Storm & Roosters board show up ours massively. We really need a clean out from the top but i dont know how this can be done without voting rights on 50% of the JV and very minimal ( need to be a leagues club member ) on the other. Very frustrating to be run by a team that is basically unaccountable to the couple of hundred thousand supporters.
 

Legion

Juniors
Messages
400
Regarding the salary cap; when investigating compliance, does the NRL investigate players finances?
Talk of 3rd party payments hasn't been raised as of late but I seem to remember stories of players being given 'inducements' that aren't included under the salary cap quite a few years back.

Like the talk that Thurston was given a luxury apartment to stay at the Cowboys for e.g.
To be fair I can't recall if that was just a rumour or if that had been investigated but it would be an easy way to rort the system, especially if the player received the asset/payment after they had retired.

Is that a possibility or does the NRL compliance team have that covered?
 
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