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Round 8 v Brisbane @ANZ Stadium Thursday 26th April

Pommy

Coach
Messages
14,657
Why don't they just play him in his position - wing????

Because 800k is insane for a winger

I have to disagree. I think people in the South Sydney thread exaggerate and resort to hyperbole as a way of releasing frustration every time we lose a game!

What cost us tonight was fatigue. It’s no coincidence that we have looked our shakiest during the back end of games, even in those matches that we have won! Many people are going to highlight the errors that we made in the second half as the catalyst for us losing. You have to ask yourself why these errors were made in the context of both tonight’s match and our season as a whole. For me, it has to be fatigue. I think a lot of people underestimate the impact that fatigue has on overall performance - it results in lower output for almost EVERY aspect of the game. Not only do you tire physically but you aren’t at your sharpest mentally either! Remember, this is arguably the key factor behind our previous coach’s demise!

In saying that, we only made 11 errors for the entire game - the Broncos made 10! Fox Sports has us down for making 6 of those in the second half. From memory our completion rate was 76% While this isn’t ideal I’ve seen teams make a lot more errors and complete a lot less sets and still get the money! Ultimately, the Broncos played an excellent half of footy in the second 40 and we have to acknowledge their efforts!

I agree people go over the top in here but to say that was a bad performance is hardly hyperbole.
What surprises me is people think we had a bad second half when I didn’t think we were very good the entire game. Yes we were ahead but in reality we were just less shit than Broncos in that first 40.
Do you really think Bronocs played an excellent half? I don’t it wasn’t a stellar game on anyone’s part really.
 

souths_reborn

Juniors
Messages
470
You kidding? The guy is on 800k per season and suppose to be an attacking weapon and has so far registered 0 trys! Don't think he has set up too many either. There is a reason Souths go to the left side in attack 90% of the time. As for his defence, he leads the missed tackles for Souths this year!

Players who have deffo been better than Gagai this year:
Inglis
Jennings
Walker
Tom
Sam
George
Cook
Murray
Sutton
Tatola

There are probably a few more i could have put in too!
There is more to judging an outside back than simply tries - you don't pay $800k for someone to simply put the ball over the line. I get the impression that you might be one of those supporters who judges players solely on stats without taking too much notice of the things he is doing on the field.

Gagai has been exceptional this year at returning the ball and creating space for his winger. The thing that impresses me about him is that he almost always beats the first defender. He is basically one of those players who you can not leave in a one on one situation. I can remember him having particularly good games against the Bulldogs and the Warriors where he was a constant menace out wide.

The reason why Souths go left a lot of the time is because the have a size mismatch against virtually every other team in the competition out there with Sutton and Inglis. Big, mobile players, such as those two, can bust through tackles and suck in defenders for the speedy players like Robert Jennings and Alex Johnston to capitalise. Dane Gagai is more of a classical centre who moves well, sort of like an Andrew Ettingshausen or Michael O'Connor. He excels at getting on the outside of players and taking advantage of broken lines and open space, such as that given when returning the ball from kicks.
 

souths_reborn

Juniors
Messages
470
Because 800k is insane for a winger



I agree people go over the top in here but to say that was a bad performance is hardly hyperbole.
What surprises me is people think we had a bad second half when I didn’t think we were very good the entire game. Yes we were ahead but in reality we were just less shit than Broncos in that first 40.
Do you really think Bronocs played an excellent half? I don’t it wasn’t a stellar game on anyone’s part really.
Absolutely the Broncos had an excellent second half. Just because you don't run in 7 unanswered tries in the second half doesn't mean that you haven't played the perfect half of footy. Fox Sports showed the completion rates with around 10 minutes to go and the Broncos had completed all of their sets. I will bet you anything that if you complete all of your sets in game, you will end up on the winning side regardless of how many tries you score. Whats the old saying: "You can't concede tries if you've got the football"
 

CliveC

Juniors
Messages
393
Well that's left me a little bit deflated I must say and I'm pretty dissappointed with that in the end. What the hell happened in that second half boys?! We just came out and looked half asleep, I couldn't believe it. Yes, the Broncos were good in the second stanza and we would've been a bit fatigued but we just didn't even look like throwing anything back at them at all and it was all reather flat at times. It's left me qutie frustrated because I was confident at half time and we should have really gone on with it. Also to lose GI and Tom's milestone games, that hurts man.

I think the attack with set plays and attacking the line looked pretty good tonight. I'm loving some of the variation we have down that left edge, so many different plays and they look great at times. Our passes were also nice and crisp and I think the balance between moving the footy and going through the middle was good. However, we seemingly weren't able to make many meters especially post-contact meters and I think this is due to the Broncos line speed. They were up in our faces every set. And yea, it all just seemed to drop off in the second half. Like I said before that is partly because of fatigue due to little possesion bt still, I wasn't all that happy with our efforts. Also, It was mentioned in the commentary that Daruis Boyd was defending up in the line almost the whole game and he kept rushing at our first reciever. It was a shame we didn't identify this because a few simple kicks in behind would've yeilded some great results. Don't get me wrong though, there were times there when we looked really good and I love the way the boys have this 'never say die' attitude as we did come back but at the end of the day, we should have never put ourselves in that position.

Defence in the first half was really impressive actually. We had a few little lapses but I was really pleased with how the boys scrambled to recover from those lapses and shut them down more often than not. That defence on Nikorima just before halftime was insane!! I'll touch on that a little later. But man, oh man did it drop off in the second. When a little bit of fatigue got into us, we started to look quite fagile through that middle and Nikorima was able to capitalise on this many times, especially with his try which was not great defence between Cody and Sutto. We also started to miss tackles, a lot. That was dissappointing as we started so well in this regard. As I mentioned last week, our right edge has some big defensive issues, especially Gagai, I was really, really not pleased with his defence tonight at all. The defence on Oates all night was not great at all and I simply couldn't believe the try he scored as no one wanted to put their body on the line. In saying that, with a bi of work, I think these issues can be fixed and hopefully Seibs is thinking the same.

Johnston: I thought he was pretty good tonight. Good running of the ball, was pushing up in support quite often, and is becoming quite dangerous on sweep plays out the back. His postional play was great and boy, his defence was outstanding! That tackle on Nikorima has to be up there with one of the try savers of the season!

Kennar: I'm not gonna lie, I was a little dissapointed in him tonight. His runs were allgood, I just would've liked to have seen him a bit more involved as he's such a damaging ball runner. He was also way, way to casual with Broncos kicks in behind. Got caught out once which was a bit of a brain explosion and almost got caught out again later in the game. Maybe though, this is a communication error with those inside/behind him telling him what to do and who's coming etc.

Inglis: A bit of a mixed game if I'm honest. Runs were good, strong and very powerful, did a good job defensively on Roberts apart from when he scored and his lead up work to AJ's try was fantastic but GI was barely involved in the second half. He's returning to form and we really need to get him some ball, he was just too quiet in the second stanza and that's a little dissappointing for his 250th game.

Gagai: Being honest again, I wasn't happy with his performance tonight. His attack was fine (apart from that error and when he cut inside Doueihi when he should've stayed out towards the end of the game), his runs were good, came up with a fair bit of second phase play and I liked the energy he brought but man he struggled in defence big time. It was like he was just all at see and there seemed to be a lot of arm grabbing which is not what you want to see from a rep centre. He really needs to work on this big time as it's the one area in his game that he struggles. I love Gags though and just can't wait to see him finally cross the stripe in the mighty Red and Green!

Jennings: Was pretty good. Liked his workrate and he came in looking for work a lot which is what him and Kennar have become so good at. They were all strong runs too which was great to see.

Walker: Was pretty good as a whole. Great energy, looked very dangerous all game. Gee he's striking up a good combination with those around him on that left edge and I'm a big fan of his assesment of our options down that side. He very rarely get's it wrong. Made an error in defence when he came up on Bird and left a massive hole for Nikorima but what annoted me more was when he played at that ball that was going dead! I wasn't happy with that at all and he knows better, it was a brain snap. it was such a shame he couldn't find AJ when he made that break but the play to put Sutto over was class.

Reynolds: Not bad. In attack he was good, an even more improved kicking game, good pass selection and he took the line on which was fantastic. In defence, he had a mixed night. Some good tackles to stop some tries and his play to help hold Nikorima up was good but then there were times where he just arm grabbed. Crichton needs to help him out more.

T.Burgess: Started really strongly and had a great first half, he was running over the top of Brisbane and was just plowing through them with some fantastic runs. Once he got tired, he did drop off a bit. Started to miss tackles and his workrate came down. His actual runs didn't frop in quality, he just didn't do enough of them.

Cook: Cookie was a little dissapointing tonight too if I'm honest. Didn't run anywhere near as much and when he did, he didn't pick it as well. came up with a couple of errors and was just a bit quiet in general. Not his usual self but he'll rebound.

G.Burgess: Was much the same as Tom actually. Didn't need to rush Milford when they scored their first try. I understand he was providing pressure but there was no one on his inside to go with him which left a huge hole.

Sutton: One of our best tonight imo. His effort in both attack and defence was so good all game and he came up with some great plays in both. I loved his hole running and he's getting a bit agrresive which is good. Really came alive in our comeback and his try was awesome.

Crichton: Wasn't bad. He was busy and did a hell of a lot of running all game which was good but he seemed to make stuff all post-contact meters as the Broncos did a pretty good job on him. Still, I liked his effort, he just needs to help his men on the outside in defence a bit more.

Murray: Was good. Did his normal, outstanding role of running hard and doing a lot of tackling, a real work horse. I love this guy, he just needed more minutes which I'm sure will come as his match fitness comes up.

Doueihi: Not an awful lot to say as he didn't see much action although, he did put himself in good postiion for a try assist late in the game, it's just a shame Gagai cut back on the inside.

Clark: Wasn't bad. Did get that ball stripped in his first touch but was otherwise good. Liked his energy and his hard running provided real impact.

Nicholls: Did his job well which is all we need. I'm liking Nicholls atm, he's kind of like an in form Dave Tyrrell.

Tatola: Looked great when he came on with good energy and strong runs but did he get injured? I don't remember him coming on for a second stint? We needed him out there.

All in all, I'm a little dissapointed as this is a gmae we shoul've gone on with and won but the second half just let us down. Maybe it was due to the five-day turnaround, I don't know.

Still, it's not all bad. We did some great things in that game and we can fix our issues as most are minor and next week will be a good chance for a rebound.
Fair comments
 

Spot On

Coach
Messages
13,897
There is more to judging an outside back than simply tries - you don't pay $800k for someone to simply put the ball over the line. I get the impression that you might be one of those supporters who judges players solely on stats without taking too much notice of the things he is doing on the field.

Gagai has been exceptional this year at returning the ball and creating space for his winger. The thing that impresses me about him is that he almost always beats the first defender. He is basically one of those players who you can not leave in a one on one situation. I can remember him having particularly good games against the Bulldogs and the Warriors where he was a constant menace out wide.

The reason why Souths go left a lot of the time is because the have a size mismatch against virtually every other team in the competition out there with Sutton and Inglis. Big, mobile players, such as those two, can bust through tackles and suck in defenders for the speedy players like Robert Jennings and Alex Johnston to capitalise. Dane Gagai is more of a classical centre who moves well, sort of like an Andrew Ettingshausen or Michael O'Connor. He excels at getting on the outside of players and taking advantage of broken lines and open space, such as that given when returning the ball from kicks.

Unfortunately a team only has the ball half the time. The other 50% requires players to tackle. Dane won't do that. Don't give a bloke 800K if he only enjoys running the ball. Fact is, he's not a try scorer either but can set up an outside man when there inside has created space.

Give him half his 800K and play him on the wing - to his strengths.

He is a big target when oposition have the ball.
 
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souths_reborn

Juniors
Messages
470
Unfortunately a team only has the ball half the time. The other 50% requires players to tackle. Dane won't do that. Don't give a bloke 800K if he only enjoys running the ball. Fact is, he's not a try scorer either but can set up an outside man when there inside has created space.

Give him half his 800K and play him on the wing - to his strengths.

He is a big target when oposition have the ball.
Where are you getting your stats from? I use the league live app ever since nrl.com made their stats far less accessible than in previous years. According to that app he has made 106 tackles from 126 attempts in 7 games this season. That roughly works out to him missing a couple of tackles each game. I'm fine with that considering he is not a big man and his potency in attack.
 

Spot On

Coach
Messages
13,897
He is up to 28 misses so far. That's close to ave 4 per game now. That is ridiculous for an 800K centre. That's not including bad reads where he doesn't lay a finger on 'his' man. 800K centres would make at worst 2 misses on ave a week. See Will Chambers.

Stats tell part of the story. Watch the game and you will see what people are starting to be concerned with.

Did you watch every game he played for Newy or are you being blinded by his running style with ball in hand? Honest question.
 
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Curns13

Juniors
Messages
1,325
Those mistakes all happened midway through the second half when the team was fatiguing. Like I've explained, 'silly 'mistakes such as those that you mentioned are symptomatic of being low on energy. You are only half right when you say that the Broncos didn't force those mistakes. Yes, they were unforced errors but they came about because the Broncos were winning the 'arm-wrestle'. By that I mean the Broncos were dominating us in and around the ruck as well as penetrating constantly out wide.
That’s not how I saw it. The errors lead to the fatigue which lead to points, in my opinion. Agree to disagree I suppose.
 

souths_reborn

Juniors
Messages
470
He is up to 28 misses so far. That's close to ave 4 per game now. That is ridiculous for an 800K centre. That's not including bad reads where he doesn't lay a finger on 'his' man. 800K centres would make at worst 2 misses on ave a week. See Will Chambers.

Stats tell part of the story. Watch the game and you will see what people are starting to be concerned with.

Did you watch every game he played for Newy or are you being blinded by his running style with ball in hand? Honest question.
I didn't watch every game for Newcastle but I watched a fair few and in most of the games I saw he pretty much their best player. Also, Gagai became a regular for Queensland and was the first winger in history to win man of the series, all while playing at Newcastle. That is some achievement given that is a lot harder to make origin when you are part of a shockingly bad club team. My overall point is that he can't be that bad given his achievements.

I've watched every game he has played this season and I don't think he has been as bad as you make out defensively. I agree we were bad on the edges in our opening games vs the Warriors but since then things have improved. Put it this way, we are far better defensively out wide than what we were under Madge.

You still haven't answered my question: where are you getting those stats from?
 

souths_reborn

Juniors
Messages
470
That’s not how I saw it. The errors lead to the fatigue which lead to points, in my opinion. Agree to disagree I suppose.
Fair enough. But errors don't just occur randomly. They are either a product of fatigue or poor technique/concentration. Under Maguire I think a lot of it was due to our team being tired before they even took to the field. In the context of this season, Seibold has done a lot of good things in terms of ensuring that the team goes in fresh as well as improving certain technical aspects of the game to ensure that we are a lot more competitive in games. Hence, given that I find it hard to believe that the errors you refer to would just occur without there being any key reason behind them.
 

Pommy

Coach
Messages
14,657
I will say I was still much happier with last night than I was about 90%of games in Madge’s last two years.
We didn’t get the win and we were making stupid mistakes but we were so much more adventurous and interesting to watch.
 

TooheysNew

Coach
Messages
1,047
That’s not how I saw it. The errors lead to the fatigue which lead to points, in my opinion. Agree to disagree I suppose.
I didn't watch every game for Newcastle but I watched a fair few and in most of the games I saw he pretty much their best player. Also, Gagai became a regular for Queensland and was the first winger in history to win man of the series, all while playing at Newcastle. That is some achievement given that is a lot harder to make origin when you are part of a shockingly bad club team. My overall point is that he can't be that bad given his achievements.

I've watched every game he has played this season and I don't think he has been as bad as you make out defensively. I agree we were bad on the edges in our opening games vs the Warriors but since then things have improved. Put it this way, we are far better defensively out wide than what we were under Madge.

You still haven't answered my question: where are you getting those stats from?
He definitely was not even close to our best player. Not within cooee. You're just trying to justify his price tag.

It is insanity to pay 800k for a player who is only effective in 50% of the game.
 

Travitoh

First Grade
Messages
5,156
We were fatigued because we played stupid. Clark, Cook and Kennar just gave them the ball inside their own half. Cody ran it dead instead of giving us a 7 tackle set from the 20. Cody threw a certain try away with a crap pass. The Broncos didn’t really force any of those things, we gave it to them. They were good enough to capitalise on it, but we were our own worst enemy that 2nd half.

As ridiculous as this may sound, i would consider this as a positive. We weren't outclassed as such and deserved the lead we had going into half time. The second half however, everything that could've went wrong did and Souths still only lost by 4.
 

souths_reborn

Juniors
Messages
470
He definitely was not even close to our best player. Not within cooee. You're just trying to justify his price tag.

It is insanity to pay 800k for a player who is only effective in 50% of the game.
Not at all. I couldn't care less about what we are playing him. I like him because he is a good player and he adds class to our backline - something which we have sorely been missing over the last couple of seasons.
 

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