Rugby for Dummies (Trying to understand this sport!)

[Parra]

Yeah we are. I think a lot of the chip-on-the-shoulder stuff does no-one any good at all. And it goes a lot wider than the fight club. The tolerance from people who appreciate more than one footy code is there to see.

Historical perspectives are used to justify some awful current opinions and none of them productive.

The majority participants in all any football code are amateurs. These days the majority are also juniors. There is a lot more common ground than there is difference. Which goes to my points earlier in the thread - to an outsider the differences between rugby union and rugby league are minor. To someone who understands both the real difference is tactics and to someone with a closed mind the void between the codes is insurmountable.

What I find interesting are the similarities - the roots of the codes remain the same. There is evidence of the original game and rules in american football and in modern rugby union and league. Although all have varied considerably from their common ancestor. In some ways NFL has retained roots where union and league have moved on. In league there are still remnants of rules that betray it's past and elements that are celebrated when they occur - like a last minute field goal - that are derided when a rugby union team makes the same play. When Hayne misses a 57 metre field goal he is lauded, when Steyn kicks them for RSA he is slammed as boring. In rugby there are still moves to take the game in a more league-like direction. The recent ELV's were slammed in some circles for this very reason.

It is all interesting and adds to the enjoyment of sport.

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

Yeah we are. I think a lot of the chip-on-the-shoulder stuff does no-one any good at all. And it goes a lot wider than the fight club. The tolerance from people who appreciate more than one footy code is there to see.

Historical perspectives are used to justify some awful current opinions and none of them productive.

The majority participants in all any football code are amateurs. These days the majority are also juniors. There is a lot more common ground than there is difference. Which goes to my points earlier in the thread - to an outsider the differences between rugby union and rugby league are minor. To someone who understands both the real difference is tactics and to someone with a closed mind the void between the codes is insurmountable.

What I find interesting are the similarities - the roots of the codes remain the same. There is evidence of the original game and rules in american football and in modern rugby union and league. Although all have varied considerably from their common ancestor. In some ways NFL has retained roots where union and league have moved on. In league there are still remnants of rules that betray it's past and elements that are celebrated when they occur - like a last minute field goal - that are derided when a rugby union team makes the same play. When Hayne misses a 57 metre field goal he is lauded, when Steyn kicks them for RSA he is slammed as boring. In rugby there are still moves to take the game in a more league-like direction. The recent ELV's were slammed in some circles for this very reason.

It is all interesting and adds to the enjoyment of sport.

What a load of hogwash.

The reason drop goals get slammed in Union by League fans is simple, RL games rarely have more than 1 in a match if they even have 1 at all. Usually it's to break a deadlock or get more than a converted try in front.

In these union games you mentioned, the guys are kicking them left right and centre not to break a deadlock or to get a converted try in front, but to keep the scoreboard ticking over, or taking the easy option instead of trying to go for maximum points.

Some of the teams don't even try to run the ball in to score, all they want to do is get close enough for a drop goal or try to get a penalty so they can kick for goal.

That is boring, Rugby (both codes) are supposed to be running games not kicking games.

I would stop watching RL if every time a team got in the opponents 40 and all they done was look for a drop goal or penalty.

Bugger that.

A Union team kicks off and it usually goes 10/15 or 20 metres, after a few tackles/rucks/mauls and a pass here or there, they are 40 metres out, what do a lot of these Union players do?(South Africans, and Poms mainly), they go for a drop goal.

Boring.

The problem is, the scoring system is way out, 3 points for a drop goal is silly. The only way Union will ever stop teams going for the easy option is to reduce the amount a drop goal is worth.

 

[Willow]

Yeah we are. I think a lot of the chip-on-the-shoulder stuff does no-one any good at all. And it goes a lot wider than the fight club. The tolerance from people who appreciate more than one footy code is there to see.

People are entitled to their opnion Parra.

Nevertheless, I find extraordinary that you could put forum squabbles on the same par as historical precedents.

There was no internet when Dally Messenger switched to League and was barred from rugby union in 1907. Of course, he was just one the many who were cut loose for daring to play professional rugby football.

 

[Parra]

I agree that the field goal is overvalued in union.

The idea that there are too many pointless field goals in rugby is wrong. Do you watch any rugby union games at all?


The three point field goal is sitting there to be over-exploited.


My point wasn't the value of any particular goal. It is the spectacle of seeing someone capable of kicking a 50m+ goal in a pressure situation. In my opinion, it is always impressive.

 

[Parra]

People are entitled to their opnion Parra.

Nevertheless, I find extraordinary that you could put forum squabbles on the same par as historical precedents.

There was no internet when Dally Messenger switched to League and was barred from rugby union in 1907. Of course, he was just one the many who were cut loose for daring to play professional rugby football.

The internet is just another communication forum. The rugby union tossers who complained about league teams poaching talent were every bit as misguided as forumers carrying on like pork chops when a league player heads off to rugby union now that it is professional. Same dickhead, different means of communication.

 

[Evil Homer]

The internet is just another communication forum. The rugby union tossers who complained about league teams poaching talent were every bit as misguided as forumers carrying on like pork chops when a league player heads off to rugby union now that it is professional. Same dickhead, different means of communication.

I hardly think that people being upset about players leaving is comparible to the consistent attempts by rugby union to cripple and destroy RL throughout history. RU's foundations are based on principles of hypocrisy and deceit, in fact I'm pretty sure that had the people in charge of RU not been such scumbags then the sport wouldn't exist today and everyone would instead be playing RL, because it represents the natural evolution of the sport.

 

[dangerousdave]

I wouldn't worry about rugby union vs rugby league so much.

To an outsider the differences are not that clear or relevant.

To some insiders the differences are major points of contention.

It is like trying to explain Canadian football and American football to someone who understands neither. The differences do not really matter.

What the f**k?

 

[T. Rubble]

Okay, new, mind-numbingly basic questions:

1) Does the NRL have a draft of some sort, the way the NFL does? (There's a single day where there are rounds, and the best college players get picked by the pro teams.) I know there are semi-pro rugby teams; are those like farm teams for the pros?

2) What sorts of sports events happen in Australia in late November/early December? I know y'all have told me that rugby league happens Fall - Spring there, but do they do anything during the summer? (I looked on the NRL website, and the only schedule of events I could find was a very generalized one.)

Thanks, in advance, for hanging in there with me on these things! (I'm sure I'll have tons more to ask after tomorrow's game....)

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

Okay, new, mind-numbingly basic questions:

1) Does the NRL have a draft of some sort, the way the NFL does? (There's a single day where there are rounds, and the best college players get picked by the pro teams.) I know there are semi-pro rugby teams; are those like farm teams for the pros?

No, there is no draft, there has been talk it may come back some time, but the last time it was around in 1991, 1 fella by the name Terry Hill fought against it in court and won.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Hill

2) What sorts of sports events happen in Australia in late November/early December? I know y'all have told me that rugby league happens Fall - Spring there, but do they do anything during the summer? (I looked on the NRL website, and the only schedule of events I could find was a very generalized one.)

Thanks, in advance, for hanging in there with me on these things! (I'm sure I'll have tons more to ask after tomorrow's game....)

Usually in October and November, RL has International games played, lower RL nations play amongst themselves and the 4 biggest nations play in a 4 Nation comp either in the Southern or Northern hemisphere.

The 3 big teams being Australia, New Zealand and England are usually joined by another team depending which hemisphere the tournament is held.

If it's held out here in the Southern Hemisphere, the winner from the Pacific cup (PNG, Samoa, Tonga, Fiji, Cook Islands and so on) get to step up and play in the 4 nations against the 3 big teams.

When held in the Northern Hemisphere, the 4th best team get to play (France, Wales, Scotland, Ireland and so on).

Underneath the 4 nation rep footy as you can see, there are other competitions going on, over the last few years the comps have started using the promotion/relegation between different tiers.

Last year when the 4 nations was played in Australia and NZ, Papua New Guinea joined the other 3 nations.

The year before, the comp was played in England and the winner of the European Cup was France, so they joined the other 3 and played.

This season it's held in Europe again and Wales have won their way into the comp.

Years ago (before 1995)England RL was played during their winter as it is out here, so after our season ended, we'd have lots of our top players head over to England and play for their top clubs.

We also used to have tours by national sides at that time to both hemispheres where the national team would hang around for 2 months or so and play against top clubs as well as the national teams.

Rupert Murdoch put an end to this in 1995 when he funded Super League and moved the English game from Winter to Summer.

So these days we don't really get the same old tours, we get things like the 4 nations and a World cup instead.

 

[flamin]

Okay, new, mind-numbingly basic questions:

1) Does the NRL have a draft of some sort, the way the NFL does? (There's a single day where there are rounds, and the best college players get picked by the pro teams.) I know there are semi-pro rugby teams; are those like farm teams for the pros?

2) What sorts of sports events happen in Australia in late November/early December? I know y'all have told me that rugby league happens Fall - Spring there, but do they do anything during the summer? (I looked on the NRL website, and the only schedule of events I could find was a very generalized one.)

Thanks, in advance, for hanging in there with me on these things! (I'm sure I'll have tons more to ask after tomorrow's game....)

Cricket is Australia's most popular summer sport.

Professional Soccer also moved to being a summer sport a few years ago. Basketball is another summer sport.

 

[T. Rubble]

No, there is no draft, there has been talk it may come back some time, but the last time it was around in 1991, 1 fella by the name Terry Hill fought against it in court and won.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Hill

Thanks, PE! But then how does the NRL get its players? Do they just have open tryouts? Also, it sounds as though most of the NRL (and AFL stuff, from what I read on Wiki) is all wrapped up by the beginning of October, with Internationals wrapped by mid-November. (Your explanation was easier to understand than Wiki's, btw.) Thanks!

 

[T. Rubble]

Cricket is Australia's most popular summer sport.

Professional Soccer also moved to being a summer sport a few years ago. Basketball is another summer sport.

Thanks, flamin! That helps with what I was looking for!

 

[Didgi]

Thanks, PE! But then how does the NRL get its players? Do they just have open tryouts? Also, it sounds as though most of the NRL (and AFL stuff, from what I read on Wiki) is all wrapped up by the beginning of October, with Internationals wrapped by mid-November. (Your explanation was easier to understand than Wiki's, btw.) Thanks!

Each NRL team will have scouts that travel to U16s, U14s etc. League tournaments and sign any kid that looks promising to a small development contract. From there, in NSW the kid can play Harold Matthews or SG Ball (age restricted comps, Harold Matthews is U16, SG Ball U18), then the next step up is the U20s, which every team has. Standouts in the U20s will be offered top squad places when they turn 20 (though many make their debuts before 20).

It is common for a club to play a star U20s player in the Queensland Cup or the NSW Cup (open-age, second tier comps) to give them a taste of playing against full men before they make a step up into the NRL.

Also, if your coach is Des Hasler you may be left sitting on the bench and not make your debut for a month after you were first named in FG (dont worry about this point, joke ;-))

 

[Parra]

Unlike the NFL, the NRL clubs themselves run "juniors". This is the breeding ground for future NRL players.

There is no independent competition that replicates what US College football does.

An NRL player draft is primarily concerned with the transfer of players between clubs, rather than facilitate a system for new players to join.

In Australian rugby leaue players can move up and down from the top-tier competition (NRL) to local teams. Also, players can move in and out of the UK system as well as sign up to play in Australian and overseas rugby union teams - and return back to NRL.

It is not as straightforward as a College > NFL > NFL free agent system.

 

[Evil Homer]

Yeah, players with potential are signed up as early as 13-14, and then go through the youth systems at clubs. Some will not make it and get released, and some will go on to make the NRL squad. Other players might not stand out as juniors, but work their way up through local leagues and end up getting signed up by an NRL team when they are older. One thing is that NRL squads do not need to be as big as those in American sports. Usually there will be a 25-man NRL practice squad, and any additional players that are needed will either be called up from the junior teams or signed up from local leagues during the season.

Hope you enjoyed the game today BTW T.Rubble

 

[T. Rubble]

Thanks, Didgi, Parra, and Evil!

It sounds like RL uses a system that's closer to the one used in American baseball (different levels of minor leagues w/ a call-up to majors when needed). Thanks, guys!

I started watching the game this morning during my cardio, but it will take me a few days to finish it. I have a few initial thoughts so far, but am afraid to post them because they are so stupid and irrelevant. Y'all have been SO NICE in helping me understand this sport (especially those of you who stuck with me after finding out I was a girl--some people here seem to have given up on me for that)! I'm going to post actual, real, worthwhile questions after I finish the game. I at least owe you that courtesy.

Thanks, guys!

 

[Twizzle]

Not sure what its live where you hail from but you may be surprised how many members here are actually female.

We have a live update team of about 6 or 7 regulars here. They are responsible for providing live updates of all rugby league games on our website and 3 of them are female.

 

[T. Rubble]

Not sure what its live where you hail from but you may be surprised how many members here are actually female.

We have a live update team of about 6 or 7 regulars here. They are responsible for providing live updates of all rugby league games on our website and 3 of them are female.

I'm aware that there are other girls here. In fact, ghosting through some of the other threads, I've developed soft spots in my heart for Cliffhanger and StormChaser. Those chicks rock! (Cliffhanger, perhaps, in the literal sense...?)

Maybe that part of my post came off as being overly-sensitive. It was my intent to thank the people who answer all of my questions on a continued basis. Like you, Twiz! Thanks!

 

[Willow]

T Rubble, you might find this interesting: http://www.leagueunlimited.com/article.php?newsid=21364

It's a media release and pretty typical of the type of fund raisers NRL clubs do.

Maybe years ago rugby league was a bloke's sport, but nowadays you go to a regular competition game and there'll be men, women and kids from all backgrounds. Families, seniors and young folk.

We sometimes criticise the NRL for being out of touch, but due credit for their promotion of the game to women in particular. The NRL has been one of the leaders in this regard, a fact that doesn't make the news often enough. The tabloids try to paint a different picture but of course they specialise in misrepresentating the facts.

 

[Bastard Squad]

Just pay attention to the Blues Number 10, Paul Gallen, one of the greatest Origin performances of all time.