Rugby League Needs An Answer To The Bledisloe Cup

[docbrown]

i like it, but i feel its a bit to Aus/NZ-centric.

to build a good international scene i think you need more than just 2 or even 3 nations. You need at least 3 nations on essentially equal chance of winning, and then 2-3 more than can pull the odd upset. That should be Samoa, Fiji and PNG. Placing NSW/QLD Cup teams there will help a lot and increasing player payments through regular test matches (e.g. pacific cup).

To be clear - and I've said it about 50 times but I'll repeat it again - I'm not saying a 3 game series should happen every year. Once every 4 years is about right. I had said 2015 would've been an ideal - could you image if next year with NZ coming off that 4 Nations tournament if there was an Anzac series in conjunction with the Baskerville series? It would be one hell of a cash generator. It's the $$$ they need in between world cups.

I want to see the Four Nations (or 5 or 6 depending on what the future holds) played every 2nd year rather than the current random format.

All end of year tournaments unless noted otherwise:

Year 1 2018

• 9s: Commonwealth Games (varies time) - the junior players from this tournament will be ready for the pro 2020 & 2021 tournaments
• Warm ups by Big 3 against local test sides
• Nations (4/5/6 etc) Tournament
• European Shield/Cup (for teams not in Nations) - divided on a regional basis (tournaments like Balkans Cup, Scandinavian Cup etc would form part of this) + playoffs, final overall winner gets the European Cup
• Pacific Shield/Cup (for teams not in Nations) + playoffs, final overall winner gets the Pacific Cup
• Atlantic Cup, Asian Cup etc

Year 2 2019

• Warm ups by Big 3 against local test sides
• Ashes Series (Aus vs Eng) - 3 matches
• Baskerville Series (NZ vs Eng) - 3 matches
• Anzac Series (Aus vs NZ) - 3 matches
• Pacific Islands united - 1 game each against Aus, Nz & Eng
• European Shield/Cup - the 6 best teams from Year 1 play in Euro Cup, rest play in Euro Shield regional tournaments
• Pacific Shield/Cup (for teams not in Nations) - the 6 best teams from Year 1 play in Pac Cup, rest play in Pac Shield or the B teams have a rest year or individual or 1 off matches
• Atlantic Cup, Asian Cup etc

Year 32020

• 9s: Asia-Pacific 9s held in conjunction with NRL 9s (pre-season) + Euro-Atlantic 9s
• Warm ups by Big 3 against local test sides
• Nations (4/5/6 etc) Tournament
• European Shield/Cup (for teams not in Nations) - divided on a regional basis (tournaments like Balkans Cup, Scandinavian Cup etc would form part of this) + playoffs, final overall winner gets the European Cup -- acts as WC Qualifiers
• Pacific Shield/Cup (for teams not in Nations) + playoffs, final overall winner gets the Pacific Cup -- acts as WC Qualifiers
• Atlantic Cup, Asian Cup etc -- acts as WC Qualifiers

Year 4 2021

• World Cup
• 9s: There may be a possibility of the WC Final weekend being a 1 or 2 days 9s WC tournament with all the visiting teams
• European Shield/Cup - for teams not in WC
• Pacific Shield/Cup - for teams not in WC
• Atlantic Cup, Asian Cup etc - for teams not in WC

 

[docbrown]

Facts

2005 - 3N (Kiwis)
2006 - 3N (Kangaroos)
2008 - WC (Kiwis)
2009 - 4N (Kangaroos)
2010 - 4N (Kiwis)
2011 - 4N (Kangaroos)
2013 - WC (Kangaroos)
2014 - 4N (Kiwis)

It's 4 each in that time frame.

 

[strong_latte]

I suppose the question is will we now see the Kiwis win a mid year test?

 

[Ernest the Sheep]

Poor poms, have they actually won anything?? best they can do is live vicariously thru kiwis successes (with of course a little help from their dodgy pom refs, the only thing they can take any credit for!!!)

 

[thorson1987]

I suppose the question is will we now see the Kiwis win a mid year test?

They had a great chance this year against a stronger Kangaroos side. unfortunately couldn't hold on.

Everyone bagged Kearney for his selections but the performance they put in for that game justified him.

May not be a good club coach, but does this make him the most successful Kiwi coach?

 

[RoosTah]

You are dumb as dogshit. f**king hell.

Since this is coming from a f**king spastic, I'll let it slide.

 

[RoosTah]

UnionTah most be livid with that result.

His private school chardonnay must have turned sour.

Who the f**k are you exactly c##t? And what, you don't support Australia?

 

[docbrown]

I suppose the question is will we now see the Kiwis win a mid year test?

It doesn't help when 13 out of 15 Anzac Tests are held in Australia...

It should be played annually 2-3 weeks after the NRL Grand Final.

 

[RoosTah]

doube.

 

[RoosTah]

It doesn't help when 13 out of 15 Anzac Tests are held in Australia...

It should be played annually 2-3 weeks after the NRL Grand Final.

Well it shouldn't be a one off test before bloody Origin that's for sure... given how competitive the Kiwis have been for a while now I really don't get why they don't just axe this and keep internationals limited to meaningful series like the 4N and WCs.

Ideally though, I'd like to see a shorter NRL so we can have a much more consistent international season.

 

[docbrown]

Inglis. Jennings. Tupou. Thaiday. Hoffman. Cherry-Evans. Cronk. Smith.

Who are these nobodies? They're so hopeless they should be playing Union for the Wannabies.

 

[RoosTah]

Inglis. Jennings. Tupou. Thaiday. Hoffman. Cherry-Evans. Cronk. Smith.

Who are these nobodies? They're so hopeless they should be playing Union for the Wannabies.

That Cherry Evans bloke wouldn't make them with his current form, and Tupou isn't rep standard... does some great stuff, but as a Roosters fan he makes me pull my f**king hair out with the amount of times he just looks like he's gone to sleep.

Wouldn't mind seeing Jennings, Inglis and Cronk over at the Wallabies though.

As for the Kangaroos, jeez this series has made me miss Slater, Hayne, the Morris boys, JT and the likes of Scott, Gallen and Tamou up front.

 

[docbrown]

Just to keep on theme with the comparison:

Facts
In league:
2005 - 3N (Kiwis)
2006 - 3N (Kangaroos)
2008 - WC (Kiwis)
2009 - 4N (Kangaroos)
2010 - 4N (Kiwis)
2011 - 4N (Kangaroos)
2013 - WC (Kangaroos)
2014 - 4N (Kiwis)
It's 4 each in that time frame.

Over in Union:
2005 - Bledisloe, 3N (NZ)
2006 - Bledisloe, 3N (NZ)
2007 - Bledisloe, 3N (NZ)
2008 - Bledisloe, 3N (NZ)
2009 - Bledisloe (NZ)
2010 - Bledisloe, 3N (NZ)
2011 - Bledisloe, WC (NZ), 3N (Aus)
2012 - Bledisloe, RC (NZ)
2013 - Bledisloe, RC (NZ)
2014 - Bledisloe, RC (NZ)

 

[strong_latte]

That Cherry Evans bloke wouldn't make them with his current form, and Tupou isn't rep standard... does some great stuff, but as a Roosters fan he makes me pull my f**king hair out with the amount of times he just looks like he's gone to sleep.

Wouldn't mind seeing Jennings, Inglis and Cronk over at the Wallabies though.

As for the Kangaroos, jeez this series has made me miss Slater, Hayne, the Morris boys, JT and the likes of Scott, Gallen and Tamou up front.

Agreed. Seriously don't rate Cherry Evans either to be honest. The guy's option taking is just plain awful and I honestly don't get how he stayed in the run on side through the whole series... in fact some of Sheens' selections in general have just been plain weird. Walker is another one who has just plain embarrassed the country since being given a green and gold jersey, and next time pick props from the start FFS.

 

[strong_latte]

Just to keep on theme with the comparison:

Facts
In league:
2005 - 3N (Kiwis)
2006 - 3N (Kangaroos)
2008 - WC (Kiwis)
2009 - 4N (Kangaroos)
2010 - 4N (Kiwis)
2011 - 4N (Kangaroos)
2013 - WC (Kangaroos)
2014 - 4N (Kiwis)
It's 4 each in that time frame.

Over in Union:
2005 - Bledisloe, 3N (NZ)
2006 - Bledisloe, 3N (NZ)
2007 - Bledisloe, 3N (NZ)
2008 - Bledisloe, 3N (NZ)
2009 - Bledisloe (NZ)
2010 - Bledisloe, 3N (NZ)
2011 - Bledisloe, WC (NZ), 3N (Aus)
2012 - Bledisloe, RC (NZ)
2013 - Bledisloe, RC (NZ)
2014 - Bledisloe, RC (NZ)

Yeah, but to be honest mate, I reckon the League would look a little different if the NRL treated its 4N as seriously as the ARU/NZRU treat their internationals... I mean, something like 20 players made themselves unavailable for Australia, yet were playing in the NRL finals FFS, and we still probably should have won that game at the death (flat at worst) even with all the blokes out.

Up front is where we felt it most of all, but the attack of the Roos looked sub-standard without JT (that's a bit of a worry frankly) and without a genuinely dynamic centre to partner with Jennings.

But just think of it this way - if we treated every 4 Nations series as seriously as we treated last year's World Cup, do you really think it'd read 4 all? Sure, the Kiwis won the '08 World Cup in a massive boil over, but I doubt they'd have much else if we'd had treated internationals like we treat Origin.

 

[docbrown]

Yeah, but to be honest mate, I reckon the League would look a little different if the NRL treated its 4N as seriously as the ARU/NZRU treat their internationals... I mean, something like 20 players made themselves unavailable for Australia, yet were playing in the NRL finals FFS, and we still probably should have won that game at the death (flat at worst) even with all the blokes out.

Up front is where we felt it most of all, but the attack of the Roos looked sub-standard without JT (that's a bit of a worry frankly) and without a genuinely dynamic centre to partner with Jennings.

But just think of it this way - if we treated every 4 Nations series as seriously as we treated last year's World Cup, do you really think it'd read 4 all? Sure, the Kiwis won the '08 World Cup in a massive boil over, but I doubt they'd have much else if we'd had treated internationals like we treat Origin.

Australia is a bigger country with a bigger player pool. They're expected to win more often.

Conspiracy theories aside, the Kiwis winning 50% of the head to head tournaments shits on the Wallabies winning just one single tournament in a decade.

Rugby Union might boast about playing in Crapshitistan but when it comes to Australia vs New Zealand rugby league is simply more competitive.

 

[strong_latte]

Australia is a bigger country with a bigger player pool. They're expected to win more often.

Conspiracy theories aside, the Kiwis winning 50% of the head to head tournaments shits on the Wallabies winning just one single tournament in a decade.

Rugby Union might boast about playing in Crapshitistan but when it comes to Australia vs New Zealand rugby league is simply more competitive.

Not contending with that, just saying that the way the each country and code treats internationals is very different, and I don't see the Kiwis seriously having that good a record if our boys treated it with more respect.

But on player pools, the Kiwis are now providing more players to the NRL than Qld, so the old adage of Aussie depth in the NRL being able to handle the loss of an entire squad is just no longer true. With a full squad we're still a cut above though, and the World Cup last year showed that.

 

[docbrown]

I don't see the Kiwis seriously having that good a record if our boys treated it with more respect.

Well I would say those mistake hypotheticals for facts.

But on player pools, the Kiwis are now providing more players to the NRL than Qld, so the old adage of Aussie depth in the NRL being able to handle the loss of an entire squad is just no longer true. With a full squad we're still a cut above though, and the World Cup last year showed that.

Like I said, that's why Australia are expected to win more often. The Kiwis punch above their weight.

 

[docbrown]

Now that we've established that Australia vs New Zealand in rugby league is more competitive than its Union equivalent, what about the other Big 3 match ups?

Since 2005-2014:

Rugby League
England/GB* vs Australia (Won 1, Lost 11)
England/GB* vs New Zealand (Won 7, Lost 8)
*Keeping in mind the GB games are with a predominantly English squad and GB were playing instead of England in those earlier years

Rugby Union
England vs New Zealand (Won 2, Lost 11)
England vs Australia (Won 6, Lost 6)

If you include Lions tours it's:
England/GB&I vs New Zealand (Won 2, Lost 14)
England/GB&I vs Australia (Won 8, Lost 7)

Let's just dispel the notion now that the Big 3 rugby league matches are somehow much less competitive than their union counterparts.

AUS vs NZ League > Union
NZ vs ENG/GB League same as AUS vs ENG/GB Union
AUS vs ENG/GB League similar to NZ vs ENG/GB Union

These stats warrant the resurrection of the Ashes, Anzac & Baskerville 3 match series every 4 years.

 

[typicalfan]

DCE would walk into the wallabies side. Even in his current form. At his best he'd be first pick.