Rumoured and Confirmed Signings and even More Crap VI

[oldmancraigy]

Avenger, so Bennett and Cleary should go as well, they have more talented rosters than ours and are performing almost as poorly as we are

I dont know what the answer is, possibly not sacking another coach, actually what we need is Hayne to play 11 games in the same way as he did in 2009, that would cover all the cracks

It's hardly a fair comment.

We have ONE WIN from 10 games.

Nobody is "almost that bad"
Bennet is doing 4x as well
Hasler 5x as well.

That's based on the simple wages of wins.

Those coaches might also argue (fairly) that (a) it's their first year at the club and new systems take time to implement and (b) that they have been far far more competitive in games this season than we have and (c) that their rosters aren't much more talented.

Hayne, WTonga, Mannah, MoiMoi --> these guys are all very good performers at their respective positions.
Sandow was one of the best halfbacks in the comp last year.
Hindmarsh and Maitua might be getting a bit long in the tooth, but they are solid first graders and you know what you're getting with them.
Poore and Allgood are solid props who would be in first grade with any club in the comp.
Much as we hate Matt Keating, he's an excellent defender, just lacks a lot of speed off the mark to run.

That's 9-10 blokes who are AT LEAST solid first graders. You might fairly assume that adding rookies like Blair, Sio, Ryan gives more than a 'decent' first grade squad.


In the end, the ANSWER would be to play like we did last season - but with our new halves we'd actually be in the business of winning games rather than losing them all by a point or 2.
If The Dogs and Knights go 3 times as badly in the win column next season, then you can use Hasler and Bennett as an arguing point. Until then it's not fair to compare coaches at new clubs with a 2nd year coach who is overseeing an enormous dropoff in performance despite an upgrade in cattle.

 

[Avenger]

None of those players are in the class of the Canterbury 4 in what they can bring to a club. Your comparing apples to oranges.

And the squad is that bad....the wholes in the squad specially in the forward pack are big enough to drive a semi through.

I disagree Hayne, Tonga, Mannah and Sandow would have walked into the side containing the Canterbury 4.

 

[oldmancraigy]

None of those players are in the class of the Canterbury 4 in what they can bring to a club. Your comparing apples to oranges.

And the squad is that bad....the wholes in the squad specially in the forward pack are big enough to drive a semi through.

The "wholes" (holes) in the forward pack are actually on the edges. We're getting carved up 3 in from touch due to an inept defensive structure AND a failure to trust the inside man.

These are both coaching issues.

And as for the defensive abilities of the squad, with worse cattle last year they were able to defend particularly well from rounds 11-26 (with 2 off games).

 

[Suitman]

In the end, if SK is too distracted by the NZ coaching job over the off-season, and in the first 5-6 rounds leading up to the ANZAC test, then that's his problem.

Conspiracy theory number 486.
Let's all run with this one for a week.

Suity

 

[oldmancraigy]

If you believe we are going nowhere at the moment, every game we don't do something is a game further from a improved result.

We're definitely not going nowhere.


We've gone backwards at a great rate of knots.


To see improved performance the rest of the year is even more depressing.... they CAN do it, they just weren't shown how early enough....

 

[oldmancraigy]

Conspiracy theory number 486.
Let's all run with this one for a week.

Suity

Can you think of a better reason that we're going so badly in the first 10 rounds this year?

We played a good brand of footy rounds 11-26 last year.
Why couldn't SK just use the off-season to grill the new players on what we were doing and send 'em out there in round 1 with 80 minute performances?

SURE - it's my theory, but I need to make sense of what is going on somehow! I won't accept "they're just not good enough" - because they WERE good enough last year. Better cattle, same style = better results.
Oh wait, for some reason it = 1 from 10.

:x

 

[Avenger]

Conspiracy theory number 486.
Let's all run with this one for a week.

Suity

Come one Suity, in lieu of this the man raises some great points.

 

[Suitman]

Can you think of a better reason that we're going so badly in the first 10 rounds this year?

No mate, I can't

We played a good brand of footy rounds 11-26 last year.
Why couldn't SK just use the off-season to grill the new players on what we were doing and send 'em out there in round 1 with 80 minute performances?

I don't think we DID play a good brand of footy in those rounds. I thought we played solid, determined footy with the limitations of the players we had. In fact, I think we have shown many times already this season that we CAN play a good brand of footy. Putting as many points on in short periods of time like we have has proven that.

SURE - it's my theory, but I need to make sense of what is going on somehow! I won't accept "they're just not good enough" - because they WERE good enough last year. Better cattle, same style = better results.

That argument doesn't wash with me either. They ARE good enough. Last year they weren't. Why they are struggling this year, I just don't know. But I'm not prepared to sit here behind my keyboard and say it is just ONE person's fault. Because that is clearly not the case.
Kearney is on a hiding to nothing now, and I agree that he's in a tough place. If they bring someone like Graham Lowe in and we win a few games, it'll be all Graham Lowe's doing. If they sack him and we win a few games, it'll be all the new coaches doing. I just hope we are not going to go off half cocked because I believe he will one day be a successful coach. I just hope it is with us. The sooner the better. I believe what he is doing will win out in the end. Gut feeling is all I've got.

Suity

 

[Delboy]

So SK coached Sio to drop the ball and Raiders score, coached Burt not to attempt to contest the kick and then not chase Ferguson, coached Hayne to lose the ball in a one on one with Dugan etc

I have no issue with anyone getting up a coach, but you have to look at some of the efforts of these players. Like Suity I think SK is doing some hard yards now, to eventually get the results, problem is his inability to express those views. If you attend any of the meeting, Nolan is a great speaker and you know where you stand and his vision is. SK has a cultural background that suggests he needs to achieve without help, he needs that help

No idea why I want him to succeed, but I believe them when they say creating and recognising your own nursery is the right way to go, hope I am right.

 

[Avenger]

Kearney is on a hiding to nothing now, and I agree that he's in a tough place. If they bring someone like Graham Lowe in and we win a few games, it'll be all Graham Lowe's doing. If they sack him and we win a few games, it'll be all the new coaches doing. I just hope we are not going to go off half cocked because I believe he will one day be a successful coach. I just hope it is with us. The sooner the better. I believe what he is doing will win out in the end. Gut feeling is all I've got.

Suity

Good point Suity. I actually think the players have lost confidence in him and don't want to play for him. It happens. Look at Chelsea in the EPL. They sacked their coach mid season and went on to win the FA Cup and the Champions League all with the same players, just a different coach.

It also happened in 2006 when the players stopped responding to a veteran coach and Jason Taylor became the first coach to take a team to the semis after being recruited mid season.

It may happen again and it's a chance I would be willing to take.

 

[Gronk]

So SK coached Sio to drop the ball and Raiders score, coached Burt not to attempt to contest the kick and then not chase Ferguson, coached Hayne to lose the ball in a one on one with Dugan etc

I have no issue with anyone getting up a coach, but you have to look at some of the efforts of these players. Like Suity I think SK is doing some hard yards now, to eventually get the results, problem is his inability to express those views. If you attend any of the meeting, Nolan is a great speaker and you know where you stand and his vision is. SK has a cultural background that suggests he needs to achieve without help, he needs that help

No idea why I want him to succeed, but I believe them when they say creating and recognising your own nursery is the right way to go, hope I am right.

What you say has merit. Unfortunately I think that we COULD achieve both rebuilding the ranks and mid-range table success at the same time. We have the players to do this, however we are not playing to our potential. This is not a short term issue as it has been a problem now for 35 weeks.

Something has to give here.

 

[Ratchy]

I disagree Hayne, Tonga, Mannah and Sandow would have walked into the side containing the Canterbury 4.

Nah your missing the point of leadership and respect they bring to a club.....none of the 4 you mention could bring that.

 

[Avenger]

So SK coached Sio to drop the ball and Raiders score, coached Burt not to attempt to contest the kick and then not chase Ferguson, coached Hayne to lose the ball in a one on one with Dugan etc

I have no issue with anyone getting up a coach, but you have to look at some of the efforts of these players. Like Suity I think SK is doing some hard yards now, to eventually get the results, problem is his inability to express those views. If you attend any of the meeting, Nolan is a great speaker and you know where you stand and his vision is. SK has a cultural background that suggests he needs to achieve without help, he needs that help

No idea why I want him to succeed, but I believe them when they say creating and recognising your own nursery is the right way to go, hope I am right.

Surely that is one of the essential criteria in becoming a successful coach? Come on Delboy his lack of communication skills is more alarming than his inept game plans, bench rotation and his persistence in selecting players like Lasalo.

 

[Avenger]

Nah your missing the point of leadership and respect they bring to a club.....none of the 4 you mention could bring that.

I now know what you are trying to say. Point taken.

 

[Suitman]

Good point Suity. I actually think the players have lost confidence in him and don't want to play for him. It happens. Look at Chelsea in the EPL. They sacked their coach mid season and went on to win the FA Cup and the Champions League all with the same players, just a different coach.

It also happened in 2006 when the players stopped responding to a veteran coach and Jason Taylor became the first coach to take a team to the semis after being recruited mid season.

It may happen again and it's a chance I would be willing to take.

Fair enough I can respect that. It's just not the way I feel.

Suity

 

[Ratchy]

The "wholes" (holes) in the forward pack are actually on the edges. We're getting carved up 3 in from touch due to an inept defensive structure AND a failure to trust the inside man.

These are both coaching issues.

And as for the defensive abilities of the squad, with worse cattle last year they were able to defend particularly well from rounds 11-26 (with 2 off games).

Thanks for the typo correction it was much appreciated.

The problems with the defence is more than just the wide backrowers. The team is being gashed up the middle losing the play the ball area as well as the collisions in defence and attack. Out of the current forward pack that run onto the field only Tim Mannah would be a chance being selected in the top 4 teams.

The only upgrades have been in the halves and outside backs, they don't win comps forwards do as the Broncos can attest too.

BTW It's ridiculous for people to continue to comment on supposed defensive and attacking structures when they have no idea what they are. Its just plain talking out of their asses to try and build a case with no facts involved.

 

[forward pass]

So SK coached Sio to drop the ball and Raiders score, coached Burt not to attempt to contest the kick and then not chase Ferguson, coached Hayne to lose the ball in a one on one with Dugan etc

.

I seriously think the above sums up our year to date. Individual errors or players being off their game have cost us week after week.

Ben Roberts absolute shocker against Tigers comes to mind. Same for Sio's two errors against Raiders (Dropped ball and poor read) and Mitchell Allgoods play the ball penalty against the dogs.

Not saying the results would have been different - we will never know - but they all cost us dearly at key moments in those games. Concentration seems to be the thing killing us right now.

 

[Delboy]

Our backrowers were signed to long term contracts prior to Sk arriving, Smith has been injured , Horo too as well as no improvement. Hindy great player but at the end of an illustrious career, Shackelton and Poore have not performed, Shack is a tweener, not mobile enough for 2nd row and not big enough for prop. Poore has basically been injured. The other big signing, Tahu left in a hissy fit.

Until these players contracts run out (thanks DA) we will struggle to invest up front as there would be nothing left for the backs, its a true fact and I cant wait for some replacements to come in, they surely would be more dynamic than that lot

 

[born an eel]

So SK coached Sio to drop the ball and Raiders score, coached Burt not to attempt to contest the kick and then not chase Ferguson, coached Hayne to lose the ball in a one on one with Dugan etc

I have no issue with anyone getting up a coach, but you have to look at some of the efforts of these players.

Our backrowers were signed to long term contracts prior to Sk arriving, Smith has been injured , Horo too as well as no improvement. Hindy great player but at the end of an illustrious career, Shackelton and Poore have not performed, Shack is a tweener, not mobile enough for 2nd row and not big enough for prop. Poore has basically been injured. The other big signing, Tahu left in a hissy fit.

Until these players contracts run out (thanks DA) we will struggle to invest up front as there would be nothing left for the backs, its a true fact and I cant wait for some replacements to come in, they surely would be more dynamic than that lot

so it's the forwards fault that the wingers drop the ball and fail to contest a kick?
Who was the one person chasing Ferguson?
Maybe it was the forwards who coached the fullback in his ball handling?
:crazy::crazy:

 

[Suitman]

I seriously think the above sums up our year to date. Individual errors or players being off their game have cost us week after week.

Ben Roberts absolute shocker against Tigers comes to mind. Same for Sio's two errors against Raiders (Dropped ball and poor read) and Mitchell Allgoods play the ball penalty against the dogs.

Not saying the results would have been different - we will never know - but they all cost us dearly at key moments in those games. Concentration seems to be the thing killing us right now.

I agree. It's not just those fundamental handling arrors, it's the defensive lapses (something we didn't have as much last year) that has been costing us more.
It's easy to point the finger at Kearney without looking at any other possible issues. There's been a million theories put up for the reasons, but none of us would know what the truth is.
I just won't wear the claimed supposed fact that it is ALL down to one person.

Suity