Rumoured and Confirmed signings - Part 4

Discussion in 'Penrith Panthers' started by herbert henry1908, Jun 1, 2016.

  1. betcats

    betcats Coach

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    Latrel was turned down by Newcastle, they saw him as lazy. But your premise is right, they recruit a lot from clubs junior squads.
     
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  2. Coastal

    Coastal Juniors

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    Yes Penrith has a huge base of junior players, lets say 200 possibles, 80% is 160 players to invest in where only 25% that may be probables is still 40 players. The other teams may be half of the possibles, so Penrith is already half way behind. Big dollars invested on players that may not actually mature into decent grade players for years. The Junior pathways setup in theory may be great but may actually be a hindrance practically.
     
  3. betcats

    betcats Coach

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    I think it has just been poorly managed for long time now. Gus got it moving in the right direction but he was to emotionally invested in these kids in the end.
     
  4. herbert henry1908

    herbert henry1908 Coach

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    I agree that developing talent can work, and is a good way to go. As I said in a post above, just not to the degree Gus wanted.

    Your last paragraph is a good point. It’s entirely possible not enough of the Penrith focus is on recruiting 16-18 year olds. Obviously these are included in Gus’ thinking, but maybe we don’t do enough of it because of our junior base?
     
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  5. betcats

    betcats Coach

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    I think clubs certainly fall back on a large junior base if they have one and don't manage their junior squads as well as they should(which includes signing kids that age). We should always be looking to recruit the best talent we can even at the junior level. I teams without junior bases prioritise that recruitment, rather than having 10 promising teens to try and keep(possibly losing the best two) they identify and go after the best 2-3 players for their age across the sg ball or hm comp and go hard at them.
     
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  6. age.s

    age.s Bench

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    I'm not following your little drama because such lines of discussion bore the everloving shit out of me. "Pick holes" in whatever way interests you.

    FWIW in terms of how close Penrith has been in the last few years, I think we were much closer under Hook than some acknowledge, mainly owing to the supreme physical condition of the squad. We were always half a rung below the top dogs but close enough to have a shot at a premiership if the cards fell our way. I'd kill for that right now.

    I think Ivan has been a massive step backwards so far, both in the strengths we had (physical conditioning) and the overall quality of the squad but there's still plenty to like about our position. I think Goulds broad strategy of a squad comprising locally developed talent with a few good value purchases is a great fit for us and if we find success it will be along a similar path to Canberra's. I'm not ready to write Ivan off either. He's a better coach than he's shown in 2019, though whether he's good enough to get us to the top tier of the league is a different question.
     
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  7. Captain Apollo

    Captain Apollo First Grade

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  8. maple_69

    maple_69 Bench

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    I think it comes down to coach being the most important. Bellamy, Robinson, Hasler and Bennett just win. They get the most out of their squads and they get them playing cohesively and consistently and at the right times. Outside of that you need a good roster and some luck.

    We’ve had the squad for a few years there but we certainly haven’t had the luck regularly or someone who takes talented guys to a cohesive group of elite footballers.

    I think we need to strike lightning on it all coming together like every team not named Melbourne or Easts has had to in order to win it. I think Gus’ biggest mistake was hiring Griffin when our window was opening. He tried to rectify that by grabbing Bennett but was gazumped and the house of cards fell over.
     
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  9. herbert henry1908

    herbert henry1908 Coach

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    This sort of highlights a point I made earlier, talent ID of young players is a very tricky business.

    Penrith though should probably be looking more at outside juniors. Of the guys who debuted at our club, the overwhelming majority are local juniors. There’s only a few guys like Mansour & Kikau who weren’t.
     
  10. Flashstep

    Flashstep Juniors

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    You make an interesting point about the ego of our young guys. I have heard similar criticisms aimed at Brisbane, they’re juniors seem to act like they’re top dogs even though they’ve done f**k all at the first grade level and suffer from the same issues we do - inconsistency and frequent idiotic plays for example. They also share the unfortunate fact of having a pretty average spine, Brisbane have it worse then us though in that department for sure, hopefully Korisau and Luai take us in the right direction.

    This is where coaching and experienced players (especially leaders) come into play, and it’s arguably our biggest weaknesses right now. We have no true leaders at the club and our coach is mediocre, combine this with the potential ego of being the best of the best in one of the top junior caches in the country and you have a recipe for disaster, and a very possible reason as to why a lot of our juniors can’t kick on.
     
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  11. Pomoz

    Pomoz Juniors

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    I should add to my comments about developing juniors, that the most important factor in getting then to first grade standard is the coach. The coach sets the standard throughout the entire club. Politis sacks coaches who aren't up to standard. He fired Fittler and he loved him like a son. He won't tolerate poor results.

    Henry talks about Broncos model not working, but when Bennett left they hired Henjak and Hook, unproven coaches who didn't continue Bennetts good work. They have produced plenty of talent, but they have been managed poorly.

    We persevere with the mediocrity of Royce, ME and Cleary like the small minded club we are. Hook actually set a high standard and even then Gus wanted to get somebody even better. I think the hiring of Cleary is the main reason he left. The coach with the lowest winning percentage over five years of any coach. A nice bloke, by all accounts, but nice isn't a qualification to be a coach. Cleary is just not good enough for our club. Full stop.
     
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  12. OldPanther

    OldPanther Coach

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    I agree with the people saying a balanced approach to recruiting is best. A few good outside signings is necessary to any team. Roosters let go a reasonable lust of players and signed Tedesco, Cronk Morris etc to go back to back.
     
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  13. franklin2323

    franklin2323 Referee

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    even those guys weren't big signings at the time but fit what they needed. So a good mix is what we need
     
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  14. OldPanther

    OldPanther Coach

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    Yeah they signed 2 stars and the rest average. Cronk they only got because he moved for his wife.
     
  15. age.s

    age.s Bench

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    Tedesco and Cronk were among the biggest signings of the last decade, even at the time.
     
  16. MugaB

    MugaB Juniors

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    Tedesco signing with the panthers would be epic, maybe throw money at Tommy Turbo

    Id like to see cameron smith play for Gold Coast Titans too while im wishing, i mean if you are really that good, be influential where it matters,
    Cronk going to Roosters was not exactly a challenge, when teddy, and a salary sombrero are involved,
    Cronk moving to sydney and playing for the Tigers would have been a better fit, unfortunately i just think its a waste of talent
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2019
  17. franklin2323

    franklin2323 Referee

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    Tedesco was a fringe Origin player. Cronk a 33 year old who had played all his footy under one coach/one structure with the only spine all his career
     
  18. franklin2323

    franklin2323 Referee

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    How many ACL ops did Tedesco have before 2? Had a single origin game to his name. Far from the player he is now.

    Cronk was unproven outside of Melbourne and not like they had a dud 7. Well in club games anyway
     
  19. betcats

    betcats Coach

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    They were both huge signings, massive. I doubt there is anyone you can convince otherwise sorry franklin. The best halfback and the best fullback, that is what they were 2 years ago mate.
     
  20. ACTPanthers

    ACTPanthers Bench

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    Anyone suggesting Cronk and Teddy weren't massive signings is just being obtuse.

    Regardless of the Rep jerseys, they were the best in their respective positions by a fair margin at the time.
     

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