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Rumoured and Confirmed signings - Part 4

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The Realist

Juniors
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1,637
Jesus F'n Christ. My commentary was not about the Game FFS Aliceinwonderland, that is for the game day thread - this thread is all about recruitment and selection. I was addressing Maple_69's comment about our ability to attract elite players who may present themselves onto the open market. I am of the opinion that we would have to pay over their actual value (relative to other clubs) and I outlined the reasons why I believe that might be the case.

Some people just can't let go of their grudges, PI died years ago. You point the fingers at others behaviour yet you 'like' a post that '100%' agrees with me, but not the person making the point (me). Personally I don't really care, I just found it bizarre and insightful.
 
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21,867
I'd hold off atm. Egan has missed plenty of footy this year. Kenny played limited hooker. Got May back. A few young halves could shuffle around.

This time next year we might have a clear 9 here or atleast get more than 3 good hookers across the comp.

Egan has played in 15 matches this year, I’ve seen enough to think he’s not irreplaceable. If we can get someone better we’d be crazy not to do it. Particularly if we can get some experience at the same time.

May isn’t a hooker, his dummy half play was poor.

To me Hooker is our biggest problem, daylight second.
 

The Realist

Juniors
Messages
1,637
Too early to predict how we will go now but I agree the last 3 years have been poor off the field. While I don't rate Ivan as a coach good that everyone is on the same page

Smart players and/or player managers take note of these issues and would legitimately raise them in negotiation. We would be needing them more than they need or desire to join us, pushing their asking price up.

Ivan alluded to it when he brought up the fact that most of our squad on Friday are local juniors....that is the way we do things here. He may as well have added have (that is the way we have do things here.

Quite frankly I am OKAY with this given that we now have a decent core of experienced and talented players to compliment the pipeline of talent coming through.
 

Alintheeast

Juniors
Messages
308
We were always everybody’s “second team” because we would always loose to everybody’s favourite team. The biggest compliment we used to get was “you blokes always have two very good reserve grade sides”. Same year 52 times.
 
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21,867
Smart players and/or player managers take note of these issues and would legitimately raise them in negotiation. We would be needing them more than they need or desire to join us, pushing their asking price up.

Ivan alluded to it when he brought up the fact that most of our squad on Friday are local juniors....that is the way we do things here. He may as well have added have (that is the way we have do things here.

Quite frankly I am OKAY with this given that we now have a decent core of experienced and talented players to compliment the pipeline of talent coming through.


Don’t think we have a core of experience. We’re more inexperienced than 2-3 years ago when hook laughed at suggestions we could win the title.

By my count we only have 3 players with more than 100 games next year.

Tamou
Mansour
Yeo

(Assuming Whare & RCG will be gone)

I’d say we’ll be one of, if not the most inexperienced team next year.
 
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21,867
If Whare & RCG are moved on, that’s some serious cap space we’ve freed up for 2020

Even if we were over the cap for next year, and we’re paying some of their salaries, we will have lost

Blake
DWZ
RCG
Maloney
Whare

That’s going to be in the territory of 2.5-3m of salary

Plus Tamou is off contract at the end of 2020.



So what the hell is going on?

Options

1. We were over the cap by quite a bit next year (I can buy we were over by some, but nothing to account for all this player movement)

2. We have a big target(s) in mind

3. I know they’ve banned backloaded contracts, but what about preloaded contracts? Let’s say we can’t/don’t sign any big names for next year. Would it be possible to pay Nathan Cleary say $1.5m next year, and then reduce his contract for the years after?
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
Egan has played in 15 matches this year, I’ve seen enough to think he’s not irreplaceable. If we can get someone better we’d be crazy not to do it. Particularly if we can get some experience at the same time.

May isn’t a hooker, his dummy half play was poor.

To me Hooker is our biggest problem, daylight second.

It isn't just here though. Hodgson, Cook and Cam Smith are the only great hookers in the comp. I asked before if Cook was unavailable who'd be next up for Origin? Qld use a halfback there.

That is where I find the problem
 

Abacus

Juniors
Messages
2,093
3. I know they’ve banned backloaded contracts, but what about preloaded contracts? Let’s say we can’t/don’t sign any big names for next year. Would it be possible to pay Nathan Cleary say $1.5m next year, and then reduce his contract for the years after?
You can prepay a player from the immediately following year. To restructure further future years, you would need to submit a new contract to the NRL.
 

Abacus

Juniors
Messages
2,093
It isn't just here though. Hodgson, Cook and Cam Smith are the only great hookers in the comp. I asked before if Cook was unavailable who'd be next up for Origin? Qld use a halfback there.

That is where I find the problem
Going to throw it out there. With Burton, Staines and Laurie emerging, FB is going to be a hard fought position for the next few years. Can Edwards to hooker a la Cook, Granville, Purcell, etc? Did he have a halves background in the lower grades?

I also think Burton may evolve into a ball-playing lock or Wade Graham-style 2nd rower once he fills out a bit.
 

TL51

Juniors
Messages
11
It isn't just here though. Hodgson, Cook and Cam Smith are the only great hookers in the comp. I asked before if Cook was unavailable who'd be next up for Origin? Qld use a halfback there.

That is where I find the problem

Totally agree. Friend may have been Qld hooker if not injured but there are very few talented and successful options out there. No point in burning more money on someone who may be no better than what Kenny is offering now. He hasn’t had a preseason training at hooker has he? Considering Kenny only debuted a few months ago, he’s performed extremely well and has been consistent. Have Egan as backup. I would give him another year yet due to his injuries. Katoa didn’t fill me with any confidence as a full time hooker into the future.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
Going to throw it out there. With Burton, Staines and Laurie emerging, FB is going to be a hard fought position for the next few years. Can Edwards to hooker a la Cook, Granville, Purcell, etc? Did he have a halves background in the lower grades?

I also think Burton may evolve into a ball-playing lock or Wade Graham-style 2nd rower once he fills out a bit.

That is kinda my thinking. Look at who we have here and try and develop one internally.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
Totally agree. Friend may have been Qld hooker if not injured but there are very few talented and successful options out there. No point in burning more money on someone who may be no better than what Kenny is offering now. He hasn’t had a preseason training at hooker has he? Considering Kenny only debuted a few months ago, he’s performed extremely well and has been consistent. Have Egan as backup. I would give him another year yet due to his injuries. Katoa didn’t fill me with any confidence as a full time hooker into the future.

That is right Kenny has only been a part time hooker. Egan had disruptions so who knows how they would go over the next 12 months
 

TL51

Juniors
Messages
11
So what the hell is going on?

Options

1. We were over the cap by quite a bit next year (I can buy we were over by some, but nothing to account for all this player movement)

2. We have a big target(s) in mind

3. I know they’ve banned backloaded contracts, but what about preloaded contracts? Let’s say we can’t/don’t sign any big names for next year. Would it be possible to pay Nathan Cleary say $1.5m next year, and then reduce his contract for the years after?

The salary cap must have been in an awful mess for all the movement. Ivan usually likes quite a few old heads and experience in his teams, just look at the Tigers this year. To clear out so much experience, the committee must feel they need to blood more of the academy youngsters or lose them to other clubs. Hopefully all these young bodies can withstand the rigours of first grade and remain fairly injury free. Granted this can happen at any age.

Point 3 is an interesting consideration. Would allow to offload some of the dollars before needing to substantially upgrade some of the rookies.
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
11,807
I'd be moving Nathan into hooker, and have Jerome as 1/2back and Maloney/Burton in 5/8th, for the rest of the year, Kenny can fill that no.14 role and free up Nathan when he comes on,
Cam Smith, Robbie Farah and Josh Hodgson are effective at hooker, coz they give great ball, and are basically halves, out of dummy half, being first reciever, it would be the better position for Nathan going forward, plus he is a good defender.
 

maple_69

Bench
Messages
4,420
Ivan has also had a very different job in his two previous gigs. Literally bring in experiences heads to establish a strong culture in place of a rotten culture. So that’s what he did. It’s interesting that Tigers fans have gotten so up in arms about some of the signings Ivan made when literally they are punching well above their talent level because of guys like Matulino, Farah and Marshall comings in to help create a constructive platform for the club to build over the next 5 years.

I would hope he adjusts to the circumstances of this squad and we need game breaking talent regardless of experience.
 
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21,867
You can prepay a player from the immediately following year. To restructure further future years, you would need to submit a new contract to the NRL.

So if we wind up with plenty of cap space for next year, but no signings to show for it, could definitely be worth it to restructure some deals.
 
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21,867
It isn't just here though. Hodgson, Cook and Cam Smith are the only great hookers in the comp. I asked before if Cook was unavailable who'd be next up for Origin? Qld use a halfback there.

That is where I find the problem


Don’t see why we need a great hooker, although that’d be preferable, we just need a better hooker.

If Cook was unavailable then McInnes would be the 9.
 
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Going to throw it out there. With Burton, Staines and Laurie emerging, FB is going to be a hard fought position for the next few years. Can Edwards to hooker a la Cook, Granville, Purcell, etc? Did he have a halves background in the lower grades?

I also think Burton may evolve into a ball-playing lock or Wade Graham-style 2nd rower once he fills out a bit.


That’s an interesting suggestion. Haven’t seen the ball playing from Edwards to suggest he could, though. Plus we don’t know on defence.
 

Kilkenny

Coach
Messages
13,135
So if we wind up with plenty of cap space for next year, but no signings to show for it, could definitely be worth it to restructure some deals.

This is probably the most pertinent point in the current situation we find ourselves in.

Is there a plan going forward in releasing DWZ, Blake, Maloney and perhaps RCG.

It cannot all be about just resigning junior talents no matter how good they may or may not be.

At some point we will almost certainly have to recruit players and one would hope they offer at least the same as those leaving or improve the squad overall.

We are light on in the front row department now so if the club does allow RCG to leave they will almost certainly have to bring someone in to replace him and we cannot just rely on a youngster such as Lenui.
 
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