Rumoured & Confirmed Signings - Part 5

[franklin2323]

No way we pay that much for a prop.

 

[mxlegend99]

Im confused as to whether the conversation is kver losing JFH to injury or him being stolen by another club. Kilkenny seemed to be referring to if he got injured. But others are talking about not paying to keep him.

If we lost him to another club he would be difficult to replace. But we could eventually do so. I think he would be a bigger loss than anyone is giving him credit for though. We definitely cant break our cap for him. But i think unlike RCG he would be worth the $800k if we paid him it. Although no long deals just incase. And no forward is worth going above $800k. Certainly not worth paying millions for.

 

[betcats]

Im confused as to whether the conversation is kver losing JFH to injury or him being stolen by another club. Kilkenny seemed to be referring to if he got injured. But others are talking about not paying to keep him.

If we lost him to another club he would be difficult to replace. But we could eventually do so. I think he would be a bigger loss than anyone is giving him credit for though. We definitely cant break our cap for him. But i think unlike RCG he would be worth the $800k if we paid him it. Although no long deals just incase. And no forward is worth going above $800k. Certainly not worth paying millions for.

It was about losing him to injury and how we would be f**ked which stemmed from a coversation about our last roster spot.

IMO Fish is someone we should keep, not for any figure but we def should hold onto him, whoever said good teams dont pay big money for props, that isnt true they are just very selective who they pay good money for. The rooster have held onto JWH since he was 20 and the storm have held onto Jesse Bromwich for his whole career, both these guys were the 'best prop in the game' at some point and both have been on big money for years now, Fish is a huge part of what we do and he is still getting better, if we have to stretch our cap a bit to keep him we should do it.

 

[snickers007]

The reality is, we score more points, and concede less when Fisher Harris is on the field. And he plays the most minutes of our props, makes the most metres, most post contact metres, most tackles, most offloads etc etc.

Anyone who thinks we can replace him with a stock standard prop is dreaming - we'd need a significant increase in the performance of our other props (consistently) to cover him. Leota and Eisenhuth don't have that extra gear. Leniu might have if he gets fit. Martin will probably get there in 2023. Everyone else it's far too early to say.

I'd rather not pay $1m a season for Fish - but if we can get him for $750k for 4 seasons, I'd consider that a bargain.

 

[WestyLife]

Im confused as to whether the conversation is kver losing JFH to injury or him being stolen by another club. Kilkenny seemed to be referring to if he got injured. But others are talking about not paying to keep him.

If we lost him to another club he would be difficult to replace. But we could eventually do so. I think he would be a bigger loss than anyone is giving him credit for though. We definitely cant break our cap for him. But i think unlike RCG he would be worth the $800k if we paid him it. Although no long deals just incase. And no forward is worth going above $800k. Certainly not worth paying millions for.

Yes he is worried about Fish being injured. Thing is no team is replacing their best prop, especially one as good as fish, with a like for like injury replacement unless your salary cap is forward heavy to an extreme.

 

[MugaB]

No way we pay that much for a prop.

Correct, but we should be paying Fish the money... remember he didn't start out as a prop, he has slowly been shifted there, its like trying to fit Nathan, Luai and Burton in one team, Burton just ended up being an awesome centre instead of a half. And Fish has been consistently Penriths medal winner every year, from back row to lock now prop, it has nothing to do with where you play him.
In other words, I personally would pay Fish upto 900k, to be our forward and Senior leader, but i would never spend no where near that amount on Leniu, Eisen or Leota etc.
Think of Jurbo at Manly, he is getting huge money, to play lock/prop/middle/wherever

 

[Original Name]

The reality is, we score more points, and concede less when Fisher Harris is on the field. And he plays the most minutes of our props, makes the most metres, most post contact metres, most tackles, most offloads etc etc.

Anyone who thinks we can replace him with a stock standard prop is dreaming - we'd need a significant increase in the performance of our other props (consistently) to cover him. Leota and Eisenhuth don't have that extra gear. Leniu might have if he gets fit. Martin will probably get there in 2023. Everyone else it's far too early to say.

I'd rather not pay $1m a season for Fish - but if we can get him for $750k for 4 seasons, I'd consider that a bargain.

Counter point most of the the time Fish is off the field Tyrone May is on the field at lock. Recruit someone like Conor Watson/Peachey who usually has a real impact over May, don't do this move Yeo to prop shit, take him off and play him for 60 minutes and those one sided Fish on/vs the field stats will get better.

 

[hindy111]

The dream of keeping this side together is unattainable and will send us back to the pre Gus days if we chase it. You need to keep the right players and a prop isn't one of those

I reckon JFH is worth the 700k mark. I doubt many other clubs offer him more. Maybe a weak club would offer 800k.
It is a balancing act. This is a very good football team with a lot of talent coming through. Perhaps Api will be the man to go when contract is up.
In your favour JT would be a lesson to clubs that no forward is worth the million dollars on a long contract.

 

[hindy111]

Im confused as to whether the conversation is kver losing JFH to injury or him being stolen by another club. Kilkenny seemed to be referring to if he got injured. But others are talking about not paying to keep him.

If we lost him to another club he would be difficult to replace. But we could eventually do so. I think he would be a bigger loss than anyone is giving him credit for though. We definitely cant break our cap for him. But i think unlike RCG he would be worth the $800k if we paid him it. Although no long deals just incase. And no forward is worth going above $800k. Certainly not worth paying millions for.

Agree. And nobody else will pay that for him cause he just isn't flashy enough.
Sides tend to pay over for the odd flash play.

 

[hindy111]

Correct, but we should be paying Fish the money... remember he didn't start out as a prop, he has slowly been shifted there, its like trying to fit Nathan, Luai and Burton in one team, Burton just ended up being an awesome centre instead of a half. And Fish has been consistently Penriths medal winner every year, from back row to lock now prop, it has nothing to do with where you play him.
In other words, I personally would pay Fish upto 900k, to be our forward and Senior leader, but i would never spend no where near that amount on Leniu, Eisen or Leota etc.
Think of Jurbo at Manly, he is getting huge money, to play lock/prop/middle/wherever

No.
He wasn't fast and mobile enough to play 2nd row. He didn't move cause he could get a spot. Imagine him playing there. He doesn't have the foot work or skills.

 

[MugaB]

No.
He wasn't fast and mobile enough to play 2nd row. He didn't move cause he could get a spot. Imagine him playing there. He doesn't have the foot work or skills.

Stick to what you know pal, he plays prop coz he was valued better in the middle, than on an edge, same as yeo

 

[Whino]

I think there a lot of cards to fall this season in terms of recruitment before the cut off and I think we need to be actively looking at our options if we have a few dollars up our sleeve.

We released Billy Burns and brought in Eddie Blacker which in hindsight isn’t looking such as great move right now given Eddie really doesn’t look anywhere near NRL standard.

I think we need to find, bring in another front rower before seasons end. We simply can’t risk the prospect of something unforeseen happening to JFH and not having someone capable of taking his place. I know there is no one out there who can do what he does to the same level but seriously if he gets injured we are in a world of hurt.,

I agree with you. You have said it for awhile and I said pre season we need another experienced middle to do the pig work. We have many middle options that can grind out metres but only one that does the really hard stuff. Martin can be in another year or two.
We just need a player that can play half a dozen games when we get a few out to injury, suspension or Origin unavailability. Nothing fancy.
We haven't needed him for the first 12 rounds but this round was evident another experienced middle is needed.

I realise the cap is different to manage and you don't get the perfect roster but the fact the club was looking at Napa and were linked to a Newcastle prop in the pre season indicates they feel the same.
It is not about the current options at our club that can't fill the breach, it is about having a bit more insurance if things get thinner. And in my opinion ideally another hard nut.
We may get through the year and win the whole comp without another addition, but I like to cover all bases

 

[billypilgrimnz]

I'm as big a fan of Fish as anyone, but there is no one player we'd be lost without. We are so far ahead of everyone bar Melbourne its obscene.

And the Roosters IMO. If they weren't cursed this season with injury, we'd be talking about a big 3.

 

[snickers007]

Counter point most of the the time Fish is off the field Tyrone May is on the field at lock. Recruit someone like Conor Watson/Peachey who usually has a real impact over May, don't do this move Yeo to prop shit, take him off and play him for 60 minutes and those one sided Fish on/vs the field stats will get better.

Fish is more often than not replaced by Leniu though. Fish plays avg 51 mins, Leniu 25. May's rotation is normally with Yeo and Api/Kenny.

Both Fish & May have a net points per minute ratio of 0.37 (eq 4th highest behind Hopgood 0.72, Api 0.41, Martin at 0.39). Wanna know who has the lowest? Leniu at 0.19.

This is further driven home by our quarter by quarter breakdown, where 60% of our net score is Q1 & Q4, the times when Fish is typically on the field. Our best quarters per game - 9/12 are Q1 or Q4. Funnily enough the only games where Q2 was our best were the Storm and Raiders game, where Spencer went ballistic.

Everything adds up to us being a much better team when Fish is on the field. We can't cover him if he gets injured this season, and we'd need a massive step up from our other props if he leaves after 2022.

Greg Alexander had Fisher-Harris in his best 17 Panthers of all time before the 2020 season kicked off. Given his last 18 months, he'd absolutely be his #1 Panthers prop.

 

[franklin2323]

Fish is more often than not replaced by Leniu though. Fish plays avg 51 mins, Leniu 25. May's rotation is normally with Yeo and Api/Kenny.

Both Fish & May have a net points per minute ratio of 0.37 (eq 4th highest behind Hopgood 0.72, Api 0.41, Martin at 0.39). Wanna know who has the lowest? Leniu at 0.19.

This is further driven home by our quarter by quarter breakdown, where 60% of our net score is Q1 & Q4, the times when Fish is typically on the field. Our best quarters per game - 9/12 are Q1 or Q4. Funnily enough the only games where Q2 was our best were the Storm and Raiders game, where Spencer went ballistic.

Everything adds up to us being a much better team when Fish is on the field. We can't cover him if he gets injured this season, and we'd need a massive step up from our other props if he leaves after 2022.

Greg Alexander had Fisher-Harris in his best 17 Panthers of all time before the 2020 season kicked off. Given his last 18 months, he'd absolutely be his #1 Panthers prop.

Wouldn't the same stats apply to any of the starters though?

 

[snickers007]

Wouldn't the same stats apply to any of the starters though?

Only the Q1 analysis would apply to all the starters - everything else is different, because they all play different minutes.

Here is our starting packs net points per minute:
Leota: 0.26
Koroisau 0.41 / Kenny 0.22
Fisher-Harris: 0.37
Kikau: 0.30
Capewell: 0.28
Yeo: 0.29

 

[WestyLife]

I agree with you. You have said it for awhile and I said pre season we need another experienced middle to do the pig work. We have many middle options that can grind out metres but only one that does the really hard stuff. Martin can be in another year or two.
We just need a player that can play half a dozen games when we get a few out to injury, suspension or Origin unavailability. Nothing fancy.
We haven't needed him for the first 12 rounds but this round was evident another experienced middle is needed.

I realise the cap is different to manage and you don't get the perfect roster but the fact the club was looking at Napa and were linked to a Newcastle prop in the pre season indicates they feel the same.
It is not about the current options at our club that can't fill the breach, it is about having a bit more insurance if things get thinner. And in my opinion ideally another hard nut.
We may get through the year and win the whole comp without another addition, but I like to cover all bases

The issue isn't if Fish is quality. He's the best prop in the game. The issue is wanting a like for like replacement when He's injured. It's simply not happening. With Hopgood, Smith, Sorensen we actually have good depth for a salary cap competition.

 

[Whino]

The issue isn't if Fish is quality. He's the best prop in the game. The issue is wanting a like for like replacement when He's injured. It's simply not happening. With Hopgood, Smith, Sorensen we actually have good depth for a salary cap competition.

I don't want a like for like replacement. I would like another tough pig to do the hard work when required. Someone on the lower end of the scale. Someone with a bit of experience that can come in play half a dozen games over the year when required. We have depth, apart from this round. As I have said I understand with the salary cap you don't always get balance you would like.
Hopgood and Smith are yet to prove themselves. That will take time.

 

[WestyLife]

I don't want a like for like replacement. I would like another tough pig to do the hard work when required. Someone on the lower end of the scale. Someone with a bit of experience that can come in play half a dozen games over the year when required. We have depth, apart from this round. As I have said I understand with the salary cap you don't always get balance you would like.
Hopgood and Smith are yet to prove themselves. That will take time.

Look across the nrl. The only team who have what you're asking for is probably Raiders and their backline sucks because of it. You'd have to find an out of favour nrl player in reserve grade or develop your own and get him cheap before clubs see their potential.

 

[Kilkenny]

The issue isn't if Fish is quality. He's the best prop in the game. The issue is wanting a like for like replacement when He's injured. It's simply not happening. With Hopgood, Smith, Sorensen we actually have good depth for a salary cap competition.

I never suggested we recruit a like for like replacement. I am well aware we don’t have such a luxury with whatever limited funds we have available.

For most part we have used a front row rotation of JFH, Leota, Eusinhuth and Lenui. take JFH out of that rotation and I don’t even want to think about what the impact would be.

I simply made the point if JFH was to sustain a long term injury it would be a massive blow to our chances of winning the premiership in 2021.

In my opinion, depending on much cap space we have remaining for this season I think we should be pro active and looking at exploring what genuine front rowers may be available as back up to provide cover for JFH. I suggested one potential option in Thomas Mikaele from the West’s Tigers just as an example I’m sure there are others.