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Rumoured Targets 3

K-Man

Bench
Messages
2,757
The game has changed and you can't think traditionally about player value. Watson is so important to us because he's a rare point of difference, the whole ebb and flow of the match turns when he comes on and starts breaking up the defensive line with his livewire unpredictability. I genuinely believe his attributes make him one of our most important half dozen players. We're already too one dimensional. It will be quite devastating to lose him, and I think we'll all come to realise that next season when we're hitting it up one off the ruck over and over and over getting bashed, not throwing anything new or dangerous at our opponents, and Kurt Mann comes off the bench to "change the game".
 

Jono078

Coach
Messages
17,503
Think of value as you will, but I also wouldn’t be happy if the club retained him for over 700k.

we’ll lose some great things he can do for us but then it’s in the coaches to come up with a plan for the personnel we have.
 

Mr_Knightside

Juniors
Messages
1,662
Think of value as you will, but I also wouldn’t be happy if the club retained him for over 700k.

we’ll lose some great things he can do for us but then it’s in the coaches to come up with a plan for the personnel we have.
Yeah $700K would be pushing elite player money which you don’t pay for a guy who does his best work for 50 mins off the bench.

I’d say $400K-$450K is about right and I’d probably cap it out at $500K if we were going to pay overs a little bit.

Ultimately it’s going to come down to what other clubs offer him. If a desperate club like the Tigers or Bulldogs comes out of the woodwork and offers $600K< then he’s probably gone and I wouldn’t blame him given how much extra cash that is over several years.

But if it’s a matter of $50K between our offer and the other offers out there I’d be expecting him to stay given he’s got his roots here now and also given the club kept faith in him when he was having no luck with injuries.

Anyway tbh I’d like to see this whole thing over and done with this week ideally. If he’s still not happy with the club’s offer then either Watson or the club need to pull the plug if It’s become clear that an agreement can’t be reached.
 

aqua_duck

Coach
Messages
17,121
The game has changed and you can't think traditionally about player value. Watson is so important to us because he's a rare point of difference, the whole ebb and flow of the match turns when he comes on and starts breaking up the defensive line with his livewire unpredictability. I genuinely believe his attributes make him one of our most important half dozen players. We're already too one dimensional. It will be quite devastating to lose him, and I think we'll all come to realise that next season when we're hitting it up one off the ruck over and over and over getting bashed, not throwing anything new or dangerous at our opponents, and Kurt Mann comes off the bench to "change the game".
I agree and whilst I value Watson's contribution the fact he's so important is abit of an indictment on who ever is in charge of our attack.
Someone compared Watson earlier with guys like Radley and Murray, the difference is whilst Watson contributes with bits of brilliance outside our mundane structure those other guys are actually vital to the structure of their teams attack
 

Burwood

Bench
Messages
4,186
I’d be very uncomfortable offering him $500,000. He’s a livewire, but considering his age and number of years in first grade, he still has plenty of rough edges. If he actually had a calm head and a bit more skill, he’d be the perfect hooker.

And looking ahead, I don’t think he is that important to our attack. With our spine on the field, there’s more than enough creativity and points in us to win games.

I’m also not too concerned with the roosters apparently showing interest. They are too smart to offer him big money, and I also can’t see how he fits into their starting side- he’d still just be a bench player for them. It’s the struggling Sydney clubs who will pose a bigger threat, but you’d think it would need to be a significant increase and guaranteed starting position to get him away from here.
 
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K-Man

Bench
Messages
2,757
I’d be very uncomfortable offering him $500,000. He’s a livewire, but considering his age and number of years in first grade, he still has plenty of rough edges. If he actually had a calm head and a bit more skill, he’d be the perfect hooker.

And looking ahead, I don’t think he is that important to our attack. With our spine on the field, there’s more than enough creativity and points in us to win games.

I’m also not too concerned with the roosters apparently showing interest. They are too smart to offer him big money, and I also can’t see how he fits into their starting side- he’d still just be a bench player for them. It’s the struggling Sydney clubs who will pose a bigger threat, but you’d think it would need to be a significant increase and guaranteed starting position to get him away from here.

I completely disagree that there's enough creativity in our spine to get away with no creativity or points of difference whatsoever in our forward pack. That just doesn't work anymore. How many games that we've lost could you put down to being beaten comprehensively through the middle? Not many. Our forwards are holding their own, they're not physically outgunned like teams of old. The problem is we don't pose enough threats from all over the field, and it's all very predictable: set up, set up, setup, shift to the left to Ponga and hope he makes it happen. The good defences are eating that up for breakfast.

The one player in our team who changes that dynamic is Watson. The fact he creates unpredictability in our attacking mindset/structures transforms the way we play, all of a sudden there's less structure on both sides of the ball (the defence is less set with running around like a madman, but equally our attack has no choice but become part of the chaos, play more ad lib football, get into different shapes... and all this helps us a lot). It's not so much whether Watson breaks through the line or comes up with a piece of magic, it's more the constant pinball nature of his play, poking his head through, showing some playmaking, doing ANYTHING that can't be read from a mile away.
 

Yosh

First Grade
Messages
9,088
Seeing Sasagi on the bench this week got me thinking. Maybe AOB is thinking of using Sasagi at 14 next season if Watson goes?
 

Yosh

First Grade
Messages
9,088
Rumour doing the rounds Tapine back to Newcastle, Klemmer to the Raiders

You're a menacing troll but if that's true, seems like a decent move. Especially if we save a lot of coin. Tapine is the type of player we been calling out for.
 

Burwood

Bench
Messages
4,186
I completely disagree that there's enough creativity in our spine to get away with no creativity or points of difference whatsoever in our forward pack. That just doesn't work anymore. How many games that we've lost could you put down to being beaten comprehensively through the middle? Not many. Our forwards are holding their own, they're not physically outgunned like teams of old. The problem is we don't pose enough threats from all over the field, and it's all very predictable: set up, set up, setup, shift to the left to Ponga and hope he makes it happen. The good defences are eating that up for breakfast.

The one player in our team who changes that dynamic is Watson. The fact he creates unpredictability in our attacking mindset/structures transforms the way we play, all of a sudden there's less structure on both sides of the ball (the defence is less set with running around like a madman, but equally our attack has no choice but become part of the chaos, play more ad lib football, get into different shapes... and all this helps us a lot). It's not so much whether Watson breaks through the line or comes up with a piece of magic, it's more the constant pinball nature of his play, poking his head through, showing some playmaking, doing ANYTHING that can't be read from a mile away.

It’s a bit unfair to judge our attack when we pretty much haven’t had a full strength spine on the field for 2 seasons. If we manage to keep them together I think we’ll start to see much improvement in our attack and Watson’s impact will only be lessened. He's worth keeping, but not if it becomes a bidding war.

If the Tapine rumour turns out to be true, that will be a good signing. Put the left over money towards upgrading the backrow and suddenly we have a more balanced pack. Klemmer has been great for us, but the rule changes haven’t done him any favours. He and Papali could be a lethal combo in Canberra.
 

perverse

Referee
Messages
23,481
I've been thinking a bit more about the Watson situation, and the more I think about it, the more I think the club is probably doing the right thing by standing its ground and asking for a chance to make a final offer once all is said and done.

Honestly, if we want to build a successful and competitive squad, we need these sorts of guys to be taking a bit less than what they're offered on the open market, and they have to want to stay for less. It's funny to raise Ponga as an example, given he's easily our highest paid player - but at the end of the day he is staying put for what I'm sure is well under what a second Brisbane team would throw at him to marquee a new club up there (or, tbh I'm sure the Broncos have sent similar messages). I'm sure he and his father have taken calls to that effect. At the end of the day, it's always been an emphatic message from him and his dad that he wants to win a premiership with the Knights, and thus far the fact that he's still here and looking to take up his player option seems to back that up. Reportedly the Safs barely took offers from other clubs before inking their deals. You need that sort of buy in from the nucleus of your squad... and as much as it seems awful to say it, I kinda expect some players to take less to stay in order to build that team. I earn a lot less than I probably could for similar reasons, I want to work somewhere I'm comfortable and happy - with people I like - rather than selling my soul to the highest bidder. I'm not asking more from them than I would ask of myself in this instance.

How much he gets offered, and how much below that offer we end up drawing the line in the sand, is a key detail to how mad we should really be if he leaves - and where that frustration should be targeted. If he leaves for another team, for $50-75k, hell even 100k more on his pay packet, then where does that leave us? It's hard to blame Connor for wanting to maximize his earnings over his career too, but is it really fair to be mad at the club trying to ask for a bit of loyalty? How much is loyalty worth? To be honest I think Connor has to ask himself whether he wants to stay in the town and at the club he loves with his mates and give the club the opportunity to put the team around him to compete for a premiership, or does he want to maximize his earnings elsewhere? Does he want to go and try to win a premiership at the Roosters, or would it mean more to him to at least try to do it at Newcastle? Does it just come down to what position or how many minutes he wants to play, and if so is it something we can reasonably budge on at this point?

I think these are all valid questions to ask if he leaves or stays... and worth having some sort of answers to before raging out at the club if he leaves. I'm as critical, sometimes moreso, as anyone of the club over the years and today. Many morons on facebook would revoke my label as a fan at all for some of the heresy I spew... but I don't think I'm willing to criticize the club here. Not yet anyway. If the Roosters throw a big cheque at him, I'm just not sure I'd want us to match it (or possibly even come close depending how much they offered).
 
Messages
489
Connor is very tied to Newcastle right now. He has a lot of mates, a house and several businesses in town

Id imagine the needle would have to be moved a fair bit $ wise from a rival club to get him to move
 

Knight Tales

Juniors
Messages
665
I've been thinking a bit more about the Watson situation, and the more I think about it, the more I think the club is probably doing the right thing by standing its ground and asking for a chance to make a final offer once all is said and done.

Honestly, if we want to build a successful and competitive squad, we need these sorts of guys to be taking a bit less than what they're offered on the open market, and they have to want to stay for less. It's funny to raise Ponga as an example, given he's easily our highest paid player - but at the end of the day he is staying put for what I'm sure is well under what a second Brisbane team would throw at him to marquee a new club up there (or, tbh I'm sure the Broncos have sent similar messages). I'm sure he and his father have taken calls to that effect. At the end of the day, it's always been an emphatic message from him and his dad that he wants to win a premiership with the Knights, and thus far the fact that he's still here and looking to take up his player option seems to back that up. Reportedly the Safs barely took offers from other clubs before inking their deals. You need that sort of buy in from the nucleus of your squad... and as much as it seems awful to say it, I kinda expect some players to take less to stay in order to build that team. I earn a lot less than I probably could for similar reasons, I want to work somewhere I'm comfortable and happy - with people I like - rather than selling my soul to the highest bidder. I'm not asking more from them than I would ask of myself in this instance.

How much he gets offered, and how much below that offer we end up drawing the line in the sand, is a key detail to how mad we should really be if he leaves - and where that frustration should be targeted. If he leaves for another team, for $50-75k, hell even 100k more on his pay packet, then where does that leave us? It's hard to blame Connor for wanting to maximize his earnings over his career too, but is it really fair to be mad at the club trying to ask for a bit of loyalty? How much is loyalty worth? To be honest I think Connor has to ask himself whether he wants to stay in the town and at the club he loves with his mates and give the club the opportunity to put the team around him to compete for a premiership, or does he want to maximize his earnings elsewhere? Does he want to go and try to win a premiership at the Roosters, or would it mean more to him to at least try to do it at Newcastle? Does it just come down to what position or how many minutes he wants to play, and if so is it something we can reasonably budge on at this point?

I think these are all valid questions to ask if he leaves or stays... and worth having some sort of answers to before raging out at the club if he leaves. I'm as critical, sometimes moreso, as anyone of the club over the years and today. Many morons on facebook would revoke my label as a fan at all for some of the heresy I spew... but I don't think I'm willing to criticize the club here. Not yet anyway. If the Roosters throw a big cheque at him, I'm just not sure I'd want us to match it (or possibly even come close depending
For sure. We all want Conor to stay. He is a gun 14. The Roosters link would be the biggest threat.
 

Woosh

Juniors
Messages
670
Trent Robinson has confirmed he has spoken with off-contract utility Connor Watson about a Roosters return as the Knights hope their three-year extension brings discussions to a head.

Watson's future has been uncertain for some time, with Newcastle hoping for a verdict on his plans beyond 2021 in the days after Sunday's critical clash with Cronulla.



Newcastle are understood to have tabled a three-year deal to the popular 25-year-old, though Watson has also been exploring his options elsewhere.

Robinson is understood to be a big fan of Watson's versatility - he has played lock, five-eighth, hooker and fullback during his career - after reluctantly releasing him to make the move to Newcastle at the end of 2017.

It is unclear if the Tricolours have weighed in with their own offer for Watson, though Knights officials believe a Roosters return is the biggest threat to their retention bid.



After being underwhelmed by the initial money on offer to stay in Newcastle, it's believed the Knights added an extra year to sweeten the deal, which is now at its "take it or leave it" three-year term.

Watson at one point was exploring rival interest off his own bat after parting ways with his management last year, a process Robinson said came up in their conversations.

"There's been discussions with Connor but that's as far as I'll say," Robinson said on Wednesday.

"I've known him and known him as a player.



"I've talked to him but I've also tried to help him as well in other places because I've known him as well.

"We talked about two things - whether there was an opening at the Roosters but then also what are the best options for him.

"I've kept in contact with Connor for the last four years since he's been away. And I'm always there for him and other players if they need advice as well."

Watson's contract negotiations are potentially delicate for Newcastle given his popularity and close ties with superstar No.1 Kalyn Ponga.
 

Yosh

First Grade
Messages
9,088
If he was going to the Tigers or a bottom feeder team, then he would be getting a better offer. I don't see a top team like the Roosters paying him anymore than we are offering him. Moving to Sydney has moving costs as well as the higher cost of living in Sydney. Surely overall, our offer is better than what the Roosters are offering.
 

Jono078

Coach
Messages
17,503
Wonder whether his old mates there at the Roosters are just helping him leverage a better deal here.

I just don't see where he fits in at the Roosters, especially if the Rumors are true that they are going hard for Brendan Smith to be their hooker.
 

Jono078

Coach
Messages
17,503
I really think we've dodged a bullet with Finucane. His head knocks and leaving the field for HIA are really adding up now.. If it keeps up he could even retire at the end of the year.
 

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