Rumours and Stuff

[El Diablo]

C'mon El D. You're better than that.

no i'm not

 

[Chipmunk]

Which site do you use?

I use both, but I wouldn't use the worse or better stat from one site to make an argument.

 

[El Diablo]

Which site do you use?

xhamster

 

[Chipmunk]

Except the high number of tries is evidence that there was more ball in play.

There has to be 90 seconds lost between a try being scored and the goal being kicked and then between the goal being kicked and the kick off to restart. if this is the case and there is 8 tries score, that would mean that there is 12 minutes out of 80 that there would be no play. So how did they get 72 minutes of playing time?

Surely a team "isn't in possession" during the time they score the try and when they take the goal kick? If that's the case then possession statistics are ultimately rubbish.

 

[I'm a loser baby...]

Maybe there's a correlation between the number of penalties and playing time?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I use both, but I wouldn't use the worse or better stat from one site to make an argument.

Which one would you use to make an argument?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

There has to be 90 seconds lost between a try being scored and the goal being kicked and then between the goal being kicked and the kick off to restart. if this is the case and there is 8 tries score, that would mean that there is 12 minutes out of 80 that there would be no play. So how did they get 72 minutes of playing time?

Surely a team "isn't in possession" during the time they score the try and when they take the goal kick? If that's the case then possession statistics are ultimately rubbish.

They are probably rubbish when comparing 49% possession with 51%, but when you see a game with a 60/40 split you should have a fair idea that possession wasn't even.

If you don't like possession as a stat have a look at runs or tackles. They are also a good gauge of relative possession.

 

[Chipmunk]

Which one would you use to make an argument?

I wouldn't chop and change stats providers to make the argument. I'd use the same stat from the same provider.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I wouldn't chop and change stats providers to make the argument. I'd use the same stat from the same provider.

Which one is that?

 

[Chipmunk]

So the below table shows some statistics from the matches that have similar scoring, so less than 20 points scored with 1-2 tries in total and 3-5 penalty goal attempts.

I find it interesting that there appears to be no correlation between the time in possession in a match and the number of tries, penalty goal attempts, penalties, scrums and drop outs (so play stoppages where time isn't stopped).

We had roughly the same amount of stoppages as two other games, but there was 15 minutes more game time in one and 19 more in another. 19 more minutes played 6-7 more minutes of game time than the others.

The Storm v Tigers had 20% more stoppages, so I can see why this match had less game time than the other two Tigers games, but I don't understand how Parra v Sharks was only 61:45 mins of playing time.

Anyone care to explain this one?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Where did you get these figures? Surely not NRL.com's insulting stats offering?

 

[Chipmunk]

Which one is that?

Well if I always used a possession % stat from say the NRL, then I would always make my argument from the NRL stat and never from Champion Data. I wouldn't use a possession % from NRL in one game and then a possession % from Champion Data in another game with the only reason to use both would be to give two higher or lower % to try and make your argument.

 

[Chipmunk]

Where did you get these figures? Surely not NRL.com's insulting stats offering?

All stats in the Table are from NRL, except for scrums, which came from Champion, as I couldn't find scrums on NRL

 

[hybrideel]

I think the reason the playing time is less is because if you are scoring less tries then you are likely kicking penalty goals. The NRL in their wisdom decided to only stop the clock at 30 seconds on conversions and not penalty goals.
So less tries = more penalty goals = less actual playing time

 

[Chipmunk]

I think the reason the playing time is less is because if you are scoring less tries then you are likely kicking penalty goals. The NRL in their wisdom decided to only stop the clock at 30 seconds on conversions and not penalty goals.
So less tries = more penalty goals = less actual playing time

But the table above shows playing time for matches that had 1-2 tries and 4-5 penalty goal attempts each, but there is up to 15 minutes difference in actual playing time.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Well if I always used a possession % stat from say the NRL, then I would always make my argument from the NRL stat and never from Champion Data. I wouldn't use a possession % from NRL in one game and then a possession % from Champion Data in another game with the only reason to use both would be to give two higher or lower % to try and make your argument.

Are they really that different that they would change an argument?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

But the table above shows playing time for matches that had 1-2 tries and 4-5 penalty goal attempts each, but there is up to 15 minutes difference in actual playing time.

I find the NRL's data unreliable. I would only use it if the equivalent stat isn't available on Champion Data, like minutes played prior to this year, or if I wanted to compare players over the course of the season.

 

[Chipmunk]

I find the NRL's data unreliable. I would only use it if the equivalent stat isn't available on Champion Data, like minutes played prior to this year, or if I wanted to compare players over the course of the season.

Well Champion doesn't have a total time in possession stat.

 

[Chipmunk]

Are they really that different that they would change an argument?

It's more about picking and choosing a stat from one site or the other to emphasise the argument. You should always use it from one source or indicate that they're from different sources.

 

[Chipmunk]

Hey Pou Bear, can you tell me how your mates at Champion come up with -1 runs?