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Rumours and Stuff

TheRam

Coach
Messages
10,099

He has been a stand out in the last few games. His defense is freakin outstanding as we all know and actually went to en even higher level at the end of the season.

But what I loved about the improvement in his game the most towards the end of the season is that he started to run into the space to draw and pass and took the line on much better then before because of it.

His passing and pass selection still need to improve obviously, but I think it will and he need to develop a good long pass. Also his long kick is very sketchy at present and while Moses is there is not such a major issue, but he needs to work on it so that if and when we are in need of it he can deliver.

But overall I was so very happy with Dylbags by the end of the season. If he improves on the above and what he is already doing, he will definitely be one hell of a quality running 5/8th and probably at one point in the future the best in the business. But he is way off the final and polished product just yet. But I am very hopeful now. I'm so glad he has started to show that he can do it. Lets hope it continues.
 

Avenger

Referee
Messages
27,248
One issue is that we aren't the players, so despite us thinking Ciraldo or Flanagan would be suitable, maybe the players don't want to play for those coaches.
Which is a dangerous position to be in. The players should never determine who the coach should be especially a bunch that have won nothing to this date.

BA’s tenure can’t last forever. The players need to grow up, cure themselves from Stockholm syndrome and grow a pair.

Assuming of course that this is the case.
 

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
60,630
Which is a dangerous position to be in. The players should never determine who the coach should be especially a bunch that have won nothing to this date.

BA’s tenure can’t last forever. The players need to grow up, cure themselves from Stockholm syndrome and grow a pair.

Assuming of course that this is the case.

So which club has changed coaches for the better ? You could argue that Penrith chopping Hook was the right move. Any others ? Storm and Roosters don't have itchy feet. Broncos blamed their failure on Bennett, but in hindsight, was it Bennett or just a lack of a GOAT ?

1632189444053.png
 

84 Baby

Referee
Messages
21,411
changing coach and not deciding on the coach until late into the season are 2 different things.

I don’t think changing coach will necessarily be an issue in keeping the players, however it needs to be done sooner rather then later. As I reckon players will want to know what direction the club is taking.

For example players like Drown / Mahoney may have interest from both broncos / dogs. In February Ikin/Gus show them the clubs plans for the future, they meet Barrett / Walters. They then ask the eels what the plans are for 2023, eels advise they haven’t decided. Then in May they ask again……still no decision on the coach. Broncos/Dogs put in attractive offers. What wouId Mahoney/Drown do? They want to stay, but have no idea who the coach is……Same as Marata, wants to play under BA and willing to accept unders to stay…..but with no decision on a coach, he has to make a decision…

however if a coaching decision is decided early…..players know where they stand….
It’s only an issue if heaps of players do it at the same time otherwise are we going to beholden our coach decision to what players demand?
 

Cloeel

Juniors
Messages
156
At a shit club, you need a teacher, mentor and tactician to bring the best out of the mediocrity that is in your roster.

Maguire is none of these things. He is a very simple, train hard, run hard and tackle hard kind of guy. Works when you have quality, but burns out the mediocre.

Our coach is very similar type to Maguire, but for one thing, he is more likeable and has the ability to recruit well. He brought cheap hard workers to the club when we were struggling and young relatively unknowns like Gutho and even landed superstars like Foran regardless of how it turned out. He had/has the personality and credibility to attract players.

Maguire doesn't. His personality eventually took its toll on the Bunnies. He couldn't replenish the roster even though it was still decent and it was on the slide so he was ousted. None of the players that he coached or coaches show the same kind of respect or love for the guy as say our players do for BA. In fact some have even said they don't like his style of coaching and they just don't get it. On its own that would mean nothing, but when you look back on his career and current situation, it adds to the negatives and the doco hasn't helped his cause at all.

All in all I think he is a one dimensional character coach which I don't think makes for a very good coach. He is the type that can succeed when you give him a quality roster that has enough self motivated quality players to make it a success and that is about it.

Having Sheens there is going to eventually make all the difference to that club and if they give him the resources and staff, he will get them back to being a very strong club from the ground up. But it will take a few years to see the fruits of his labour. Boy do I wish we had moved and signed Sheen as our development/football manager. I think he and Gould are the two best in the business for that type of thing. Well maybe if they dick him around in a year or two he might get the shits enough and be ripe for the picking. We really do need someone of this type of elite quality to get in there and restructure our whole under NRL level systems. I really don't like watching such high quality players like Josh Schuster and Haumole Olakau'atu playing for Manly. Those sorts of players were a standout from a very young age and should never have been missed, ignored or not been a priority to keep in our juniors districts.

We have to many players come from our nursery who never play for us, but go on to play for other clubs, win premierships and achieve representative honours. This I want to see stop to the point that if we lose them, they should have played for us at least for 3-4 years at NRL level. This "can't keep them all" bullshit line that so many of you trot out is just that.

The Roosters know how to spot quality at a very early age. Most of their stars come to their club at around 16 years old. Besides Schuster for example was the best player in his district at 14-15 years of age. We should have been all over him and if our systems and setup was where it should be, we would have been and the kid/s and parents would know that and never want to leave and play for our rivals. Who wants to go and play for an area that isn't your own if you are being looked after and you have pride and love for where you come from, your mates and your roots?

If we set it up right, the best talent would never want to leave, knowing that they will come through a stellar program system that will improve and hone their game and look after them all the way up through the grades to NRL level if they work hard and make it. It should be every kids ambition to make it with the Eels not their/our rivals ffs! We should have a finger on the pulse of all the best talent and make sure that they know we are there for them and not allow other scouts get in their ear and turn them before we have the chance. That can only happen if the player/parents feel that we aren't in the picture for whatever reason. Like I said, no kid or parent would send their kid to the other side of town to train and play in the hope of making it 5-8 years later, when if we showed the same interest they could do the same in their own backyard.

That can only happen if we have dropped the ball, which we obviously have on numerous occasions. Someone like Sheens or Gould would fix that from happening in my opinion. Also someone on here mentioned a while back that Penrith poached our best man that looked after our junior setup and the guy in charge now sucks. I can't remember who said it or the guys name that was poached, but whoever it was, we should look to getting him back before the guy doing the job now totally F's things up, if he hasn't already. I'm sick of politics and mediocrity. Please, please, please club, fix everything from the ground up once and for all. It will shock everyone how great we could become, especially mediocrity dwellers like Pou. Not a powerhouse.......THE POWERHOUSE!


I think people misinterpret what Pou Pou Escobar is trying to generally communicate.

There is a difference between accepting mediocrity and having an understanding of where we are at as an organisation. Long term sustained success is a step by step never ending process...

I do however agree with you in regards to junior development. But we need to find solace in the fact we are making steps in the right direction (however big or small) to all critical components which draws parallels to any successful organisation.
 
Last edited:

TheRam

Coach
Messages
10,099
One issue is that we aren't the players, so despite us thinking Ciraldo or Flanagan would be suitable, maybe the players don't want to play for those coaches.

Now you are just guessing.

Players say a lot of shit when it comes to their current coaches. But in reality, if a coach is swapped out for a new one, most players are cool with that and just move on and adjust. If the squad is strong and they feel they have been valued enough and paid accordingly then there generally are no issues. It has happened time and time again. Strong clubs survive the transition as seamlessly as can be expected.

The only time it ever affects a well run and strong club adversely is when the incoming coach is a dud after the fact and the playing group start to internally and externally show their displeasure in whispers and performance. Then the best clubs, cut the cancer as quickly as possible to get the ship back on its rightful course.

As long as the coach is a manager, can attract and recruit quality from outside the club and can get the team up on game days, then 99% of players are happy and will not have an issue with the coach. We are a strong club and can attract a decent replacement when the time comes. Our players and their managers know this. Don't get sucked into the media hype and the click bait stories that they are trotting out around our unsigned players.

The Phil Rothfield's types in the media love these types of sensational headlines. It's what feeds them. But if we are strong and know how to handle this situation and the players and their managers the right way, then we should not have any major problems. By all accounts it looks like we are. So we should all chill and if you are on social media with these scum lowlife media types, state our case and slam the f**kers for the gutter journalism it is and how they are just chasing the headline.

Also we have had similar headline every time a bunch of our best players came off contract the last couple of times. What happened? Nothing, we kept all the players that we wanted. I suspect the same thing is going to happen again. Oh BTW, if we lose a player like Niukore it won't be due to not knowing who the coach was but to a substantially better money offer. You can bank on that.
 

IFR33K

Coach
Messages
12,815
At a shit club, you need a teacher, mentor and tactician to bring the best out of the mediocrity that is in your roster.

Maguire is none of these things. He is a very simple, train hard, run hard and tackle hard kind of guy. Works when you have quality, but burns out the mediocre.

Our coach is very similar type to Maguire, but for one thing, he is more likeable and has the ability to recruit well. He brought cheap hard workers to the club when we were struggling and young relatively unknowns like Gutho and even landed superstars like Foran regardless of how it turned out. He had/has the personality and credibility to attract players.

Maguire doesn't. His personality eventually took its toll on the Bunnies. He couldn't replenish the roster even though it was still decent and it was on the slide so he was ousted. None of the players that he coached or coaches show the same kind of respect or love for the guy as say our players do for BA. In fact some have even said they don't like his style of coaching and they just don't get it. On its own that would mean nothing, but when you look back on his career and current situation, it adds to the negatives and the doco hasn't helped his cause at all.

All in all I think he is a one dimensional character coach which I don't think makes for a very good coach. He is the type that can succeed when you give him a quality roster that has enough self motivated quality players to make it a success and that is about it.

Having Sheens there is going to eventually make all the difference to that club and if they give him the resources and staff, he will get them back to being a very strong club from the ground up. But it will take a few years to see the fruits of his labour. Boy do I wish we had moved and signed Sheen as our development/football manager. I think he and Gould are the two best in the business for that type of thing. Well maybe if they dick him around in a year or two he might get the shits enough and be ripe for the picking. We really do need someone of this type of elite quality to get in there and restructure our whole under NRL level systems. I really don't like watching such high quality players like Josh Schuster and Haumole Olakau'atu playing for Manly. Those sorts of players were a standout from a very young age and should never have been missed, ignored or not been a priority to keep in our juniors districts.

We have to many players come from our nursery who never play for us, but go on to play for other clubs, win premierships and achieve representative honours. This I want to see stop to the point that if we lose them, they should have played for us at least for 3-4 years at NRL level. This "can't keep them all" bullshit line that so many of you trot out is just that.

The Roosters know how to spot quality at a very early age. Most of their stars come to their club at around 16 years old. Besides Schuster for example was the best player in his district at 14-15 years of age. We should have been all over him and if our systems and setup was where it should be, we would have been and the kid/s and parents would know that and never want to leave and play for our rivals. Who wants to go and play for an area that isn't your own if you are being looked after and you have pride and love for where you come from, your mates and your roots?

If we set it up right, the best talent would never want to leave, knowing that they will come through a stellar program system that will improve and hone their game and look after them all the way up through the grades to NRL level if they work hard and make it. It should be every kids ambition to make it with the Eels not their/our rivals ffs! We should have a finger on the pulse of all the best talent and make sure that they know we are there for them and not allow other scouts get in their ear and turn them before we have the chance. That can only happen if the player/parents feel that we aren't in the picture for whatever reason. Like I said, no kid or parent would send their kid to the other side of town to train and play in the hope of making it 5-8 years later, when if we showed the same interest they could do the same in their own backyard.

That can only happen if we have dropped the ball, which we obviously have on numerous occasions. Someone like Sheens or Gould would fix that from happening in my opinion. Also someone on here mentioned a while back that Penrith poached our best man that looked after our junior setup and the guy in charge now sucks. I can't remember who said it or the guys name that was poached, but whoever it was, we should look to getting him back before the guy doing the job now totally F's things up, if he hasn't already. I'm sick of politics and mediocrity. Please, please, please club, fix everything from the ground up once and for all. It will shock everyone how great we could become, especially mediocrity dwellers like Pou. Not a powerhouse.......THE POWERHOUSE!

Ffs
 

Joshuatheeel

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
18,241
It’s only an issue if heaps of players do it at the same time otherwise are we going to beholden our coach decision to what players demand?
It’s not what the players demand, it’s them knowing what the future holds so they can make a decision.

Eels - Drown/Gutho/Mahoney/Paulo/Marata/papa, we really want you to sign for 2023, here is our offer.

Player - who is the coach?

Eels - don’t know, haven’t decided

Player - when will a a decision be made

Eels - soon

Player - If BA isn’t staying, who is the club looking at

eels - don’t know

player - well I wouId at least like to know before deciding on my future for the next 3 tears

eels - we will let you know soon

player - well I have a really good offer and I need to decide in the next 2 weeks. I really want to know who the coach is

eels - a decision won’t be made in 2 weeks. Does it really matter if you don’t know who the coach is ? J

player - FFS

If madness to think the club will be able to re-sign players without confirming the coach.
 

Noise

Coach
Messages
13,995
So which club has changed coaches for the better ? You could argue that Penrith chopping Hook was the right move. Any others ? Storm and Roosters don't have itchy feet. Broncos blamed their failure on Bennett, but in hindsight, was it Bennett or just a lack of a GOAT ?

View attachment 54196
Knights, Titans and Manly have all improved since they changed coaches.
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
10,099
I think people misinterpret what Pou Pou Escobar is trying to generally communicate.

There is a difference between accepting mediocrity and having an understanding of where we are at as an organisation. Long term sustained success is a step by step never ending process...

I do however agree with you in regards to junior development. But we need to find solace in the fact we are making steps in the right direction (however big or small) to all critical components which draws parallels to any successful organisation.

Yeah thanks mate. I get it. We have been at it for a while now. When do you think we will shed the mediocrity? I mean how long do you think these steps will take to reach high performance right across the whole organisation?

Me I think it isn't all that hard once you have a quality board and management team and stability, which we have had for a few years now. Then it isn't that hard to start clearing out the dead wood below and refresh it with the best around from either within or outside.

It shouldn't be all that hard to identify who the better junior developers, scouts or coaches are should it? I mean many of these people have been doing their jobs for different clubs for many years or decades even. People talk and know one another and if you have been around the game for a little bit, you would know who the better operators are and start from there, wouldn't you? How long should that take? I myself think no more then a year, once I got my feet under the table.

I'm not talking about head coach or even assistant coach stuff here, but junior level staff and systems that need to be addressed properly. Hell the competition shouldn't be all that hard to get better people in since so many of our NRL clubs have and do neglect this side of the game as we all know and just try and buy their way out of trouble. We are one of the strongest junior nurseries in the league that I am sure if we resourced it right and asked some of the better operators to be part of, they would jump at the chance.

So why is it taking so long to get it at the level that would make it the envy of all the league? You know, like the Panthers one is right now. Time is not our problem. Identifying who or what the problem is correctly and then hiring the right person/s to take over and implement is.
 

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
60,630
Knights, Titans and Manly have all improved since they changed coaches.
Tits and Manly have a goat. Both goats broke records this season.

Knights have a mini goat, however with a new coach finished 7th in 2020 & 2021.
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
10,099
It’s not what the players demand, it’s them knowing what the future holds so they can make a decision.

Eels - Drown/Gutho/Mahoney/Paulo/Marata/papa, we really want you to sign for 2023, here is our offer.

Player - who is the coach?

Eels - don’t know, haven’t decided

Player - when will a a decision be made

Eels - soon

Player - If BA isn’t staying, who is the club looking at

eels - don’t know

player - well I wouId at least like to know before deciding on my future for the next 3 tears

eels - we will let you know soon

player - well I have a really good offer and I need to decide in the next 2 weeks. I really want to know who the coach is

eels - a decision won’t be made in 2 weeks. Does it really matter if you don’t know who the coach is ? J

player - FFS

If madness to think the club will be able to re-sign players without confirming the coach.

Seriously, that would only happen in a serious way at a crappy club, with weak management, a weak roster and a history of going from one bad coach to another. We are none of those things now. Our management should easily know how to play this. Don't be a sucker to the click bait of the media. Learn to think for yourself and know when you have a strong hand to play.

In other words we are a mansion on the hill with a great many bedrooms with ensuite bathrooms for everyone to have their own, multiple living areas, and entertainment rooms, including a theatre room, Jacuzzi and large swimming pool at the back with massive BBQ area and a tennis/basketball court. As for the over the top modern kitchen, well the players never have to enter it because the live in 24 hours chefs never stop making meals. Oh and I nearly forgot, cleanup is a non issue due to the live in maids and laundry personnel that take care of your every need.

That is the type of shiny bauble we are at the moment and our management should be making sure the players and their managers know it too. If they're not they're not doing their job properly.
 

84 Baby

Referee
Messages
21,411
It’s not what the players demand, it’s them knowing what the future holds so they can make a decision.

Eels - Drown/Gutho/Mahoney/Paulo/Marata/papa, we really want you to sign for 2023, here is our offer.

Player - who is the coach?

Eels - don’t know, haven’t decided

Player - when will a a decision be made

Eels - soon

Player - If BA isn’t staying, who is the club looking at

eels - don’t know

player - well I wouId at least like to know before deciding on my future for the next 3 tears

eels - we will let you know soon

player - well I have a really good offer and I need to decide in the next 2 weeks. I really want to know who the coach is

eels - a decision won’t be made in 2 weeks. Does it really matter if you don’t know who the coach is ? J

player - FFS

If madness to think the club will be able to re-sign players without confirming the coach.
If a player leaves because they want to know who the coach is, that’s a demand.

And if you actually think that’s how the negotiation will go down then yes players will leave. But in reality the players know BA is unsigned beyond next season already, they know furtherance of his tenure is probably reliant on results next season but they also know there’s a finite amount of coaches who the club can and would hire if they replace him. Some of them from having the same managers or just through office gossip will even know of coaches who have approached or been approached. Heck some of the senior players may even be directly asked to comment on potential replacements, because 100% in the off-season wrap up, they will be asked about BAs performance this season/plan next season.
The only time they’ll leave when coaching uncertainty is the main driver is because they do not like the manner the club is doing the change management, they do not like the potential replacement or it’s a Skeletor/Dawius symbiosis. Otherwise they are just leaving to go to chase success or dollars.

Is it more ideal to have your coach locked up before your players? Probably in most cases.
Will players not sign with us just because we haven’t confirmed a coach? Probably harder but there’ll always be bigger factors.
Is it madness to think signing any one player at the moment is more important than the decision on who the coach will be going forward? 100%. People have been whinging about the coaching since 2018.

Just weigh up how many and which players you’d let leave because they don’t know who the coach will be against each potential 2023 coach. That’d be a metric I’d use in the timing of my decision.

That all said, I think the story I heard regarding our next coach seems more and more likely.
 

Avenger

Referee
Messages
27,248
If a player leaves because they want to know who the coach is, that’s a demand.

And if you actually think that’s how the negotiation will go down then yes players will leave. But in reality the players know BA is unsigned beyond next season already, they know furtherance of his tenure is probably reliant on results next season but they also know there’s a finite amount of coaches who the club can and would hire if they replace him. Some of them from having the same managers or just through office gossip will even know of coaches who have approached or been approached. Heck some of the senior players may even be directly asked to comment on potential replacements, because 100% in the off-season wrap up, they will be asked about BAs performance this season/plan next season.
The only time they’ll leave when coaching uncertainty is the main driver is because they do not like the manner the club is doing the change management, they do not like the potential replacement or it’s a Skeletor/Dawius symbiosis. Otherwise they are just leaving to go to chase success or dollars.

Is it more ideal to have your coach locked up before your players? Probably in most cases.
Will players not sign with us just because we haven’t confirmed a coach? Probably harder but there’ll always be bigger factors.
Is it madness to think signing any one player at the moment is more important than the decision on who the coach will be going forward? 100%. People have been whinging about the coaching since 2018.

Just weigh up how many and which players you’d let leave because they don’t know who the coach will be against each potential 2023 coach. That’d be a metric I’d use in the timing of my decision.

That all said, I think the story I heard regarding our next coach seems more and more likely.
What story ?
 

TheRam

Coach
Messages
10,099
Tits and Manly have a goat. Both goats broke records this season.

Knights have a mini goat, however with a new coach finished 7th in 2020 & 2021.

Oh so what you really meant was which team changed coaches and had/have a shit roster that went better?

Not many if any is the obvious answer.
 

Noise

Coach
Messages
13,995
Tits and Manly have a goat. Both goats broke records this season.

Knights have a mini goat, however with a new coach finished 7th in 2020 & 2021.
Yea 3 current teams have the greatest players of all time lol and So what? Manly and Newcastle had Ponga and Turbo before their current coaches got there. Who is the Titans goat? Fifita? Haha please. Even South’s have improved from Maguires last couple of years there.

So in the last 3 years out of the current top 8, Storm and Roosters aren’t really looking for new coaches and have had premiership success, Penrith, Souths, Newcastle, Manly and the Titans have demonstrated improvement since getting a new coach and that leaves Parra who have plateaued with their current coach.
 

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