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As an outsider, how did you rate our squad this year? Top eight? Top six? Higher?

To be honest, another pretty good year ahead, top 5.

I know there’s been some troubles, but as I said, ba seems to be one of the few coaches who actually knows whats going on with the rules and how to play to them.

So if the squad ( I almost said *squid) isn’t all a billion dollars, there’s some coach inspired bonus.

I thought Moses was very strong last year. No bias, he’s finally settling in.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
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71,204
To be honest, another pretty good year ahead, top 5.

I know there’s been some troubles, but as I said, ba seems to be one of the few coaches who actually knows whats going on with the rules and how to play to them.

So if the squad ( I almost said *squid) isn’t all a billion dollars, there’s some coach inspired bonus.

I thought Moses was very strong last year. No bias, he’s finally settling in.
I was asking about the season just gone.
 

lucablight

Bench
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4,578
I think To'o might be. His stature is big enough that he would be very influential there. Crichton, not so much.

I think To'o is a key part of their team, with his go forward out of his own half. Crichton is a quality outside back they can plug in at wing and centre, but replaceable.

But to say their team is 'built around' those players implies that those players drive the standards and culture there. If it means something else to you then the term doesn't have much value. Is our team 'built around' Sivo because he scored so many tries, or does he benefit from being on the end of our strong left side attack?

Yes, over any given three year period (for example). I mean that over time they tend to be stronger than us, even if we might finish above them in a given year, which hasn't happened since 2005 (or 2010 when they lost all their points).
Doesn't it just mean that they have recruitment/retention benefits that no other club has (except maybe the Roosters)?
When I say building a team around players I’m primarily referring to the ones who have the most influence on the field. I don’t think Sivo fits into that category. Crichton and To’o certainly do. Most of the fans are aggrieved with him not doing enough work in carting the ball up. I don’t think Crichton would have been replaceable because I don’t think Momirovski is that good. If he doesn’t intercept Moses’ harbour bridge pass in that final then we probably score in the corner and win the game.
What are the recruitment/retention advantages the roosters and Storm have? Is it having a huge junior nursery? Or being one of the most supported clubs in the NRL?
 

Poupou Escobar

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71,204
When I say building a team around players I’m primarily referring to the ones who have the most influence on the field. I don’t think Sivo fits into that category. Crichton and To’o certainly do. Most of the fans are aggrieved with him not doing enough work in carting the ball up. I don’t think Crichton would have been replaceable because I don’t think Momirovski is that good. If he doesn’t intercept Moses’ harbour bridge pass in that final then we probably score in the corner and win the game.
What are the recruitment/retention advantages the roosters and Storm have? Is it having a huge junior nursery? Or being one of the most supported clubs in the NRL?
If you disagree that they have these advantages then you'll need to come up with an alternative explanation for why they have been so massively successful over the past 20 years.
 

Poupou Escobar

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71,204
Yes and its why we have had to recruit so many from outside. The Bern mandated we WOULD become a development club. I guess he felt we wernt.
How many clubs don't recruit players from outside? Even the Panthers recruit plenty from outside their area. They just recruit them very young, like the Storm and Roosters.
 

lucablight

Bench
Messages
4,578
If you disagree that they have these advantages then you'll need to come up with an alternative explanation for why they have been so massively successful over the past 20 years.
I’m neither affirming or denying their advantages.
I’m asking what they are. I think it’s a cop out to say we haven’t won a competition in 35 years because the Roosters and Storm have advantages when other clubs with less resources than us have won.
As to why they’ve been so successful I’d say Melbourne are good at identifying a core group of players and constructing a team around them. When you look at how they play, they always seem well coached and drilled in how they execute their game plan. I don’t get that from our team.
As for the Roosters they’re ruthless in how they construct their team by aggressively targeting the best players and demanding success. Look at what they’ve done over the years with the likes of Fittler, Tedesco, SBW, Cronk etc. They don’t tolerate mediocrity for very long either. Brian Smith took them to a grand final in 2010 and was gone two years later when they finished 13th. Brad Fittler was one of their prodigal sons and finished 6th in 2008 and was gone after he finished with the wooden spoon in 2009. Our soon to be longest serving coach is yet to make a grand final.
 

Poupou Escobar

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71,204
I’m neither affirming or denying their advantages.
I’m asking what they are. I think it’s a cop out to say we haven’t won a competition in 35 years because the Roosters and Storm have advantages when other clubs with less resources than us have won.
The point is it takes luck to win a premiership, but the more resources you have the less luck is required.
As to why they’ve been so successful I’d say Melbourne are good at identifying a core group of players and constructing a team around them. When you look at how they play, they always seem well coached and drilled in how they execute their game plan. I don’t get that from our team.
As for the Roosters they’re ruthless in how they construct their team by aggressively targeting the best players and demanding success. Look at what they’ve done over the years with the likes of Fittler, Tedesco, SBW, Cronk etc. They don’t tolerate mediocrity for very long either. Brian Smith took them to a grand final in 2010 and was gone two years later when they finished 13th. Brad Fittler was one of their prodigal sons and finished 6th in 2008 and was gone after he finished with the wooden spoon in 2009. Our soon to be longest serving coach is yet to make a grand final.
Well you can blame Arthur, but then who do you blame for the 27 seasons between 1986 and 2014? Arthur's lack of premierships is just a symptom of a greater structural issue at our club. Whatever it is, it's been part of us since long before Brad Arthur took over as coach.

Our average finish over the past n number of years is here:

Years until 2021 (inclusive)Average finish
35th (4.6 rounded up)
8 (Arthur's reign as head coach)9th
16 (since Brian Smith's last full season)10th
25 (including Smith's reign)9th
35 (since the last premiership)10th
45 (just going in ten year blocks from here)8th (1977-1986 certainly boosted our average finish)
558th (1967-1976 was decent but it was a small comp)

So our long term finals finish since 1967 was eighth. In the decade before that there were only ten teams in the comp and we ran last half the time. There comes a point where you need to stop looking for a scapegoat and realise our successes were the outlier, not the failures. We've just made the finals three years in a row. Guess how many times we've done that since 1947.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
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71,204
The answer is 15:

'62-'64
'63-'65
'75-'77
'76-'78
'77-'79
'81-'83
'82-'84
'83-'85
'84-'86
'97-'99
'98-'00
'99-'01
'00-'02
'05-'07
'19-'21

If we make the finals for a fourth consecutive year in 2022 it'll only be the 10th time in the club's history. But there's no premiership guarantees. We only won one premiership in our previous nine streaks of making the finals four straight years. In fact we seemed to have more luck after the 'rebuilding year' (or whatever happened) in 1980.

Anyway my point is it's very exciting.
 

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