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Sack Adam O'Brien

Mr_Knightside

Juniors
Messages
2,495
I have defended AOB a fair bit on here over the last few years. But even I am getting really frustrated with the same shit being dished up over and over again. At least if we were a free flowing attacking team but were losing because we’re letting more points in I would feel more confident that we could pull ourselves out of this hole.

Because at least in that scenario you know that if we manage to put some steely defence together for 20 mins at the back end of a game we can win it 30-24 or something. But at the moment, any time a team gets a couple of converted tries on the board we’re literally beaten because we all know that we will play the exact same predictable way for 80 mins and basically just grind our way to to a boring loss.
 

Mr_Knightside

Juniors
Messages
2,495
So the ever present question that pretty much underpins this thread is:

If AOB is sacked today… who are we getting to replace him that we feel confident can do a better job with the current squad?
 

Woody90

Bench
Messages
3,007
So the ever present question that pretty much underpins this thread is:

If AOB is sacked today… who are we getting to replace him that we feel confident can do a better job with the current squad?

Honesty id make a play at Brad Arthur before the Bears confirm him. I know unlikely given he’s friends with AOB, but it’s a business. I know he had some issues at the Eels but he got them to a GF and he can coach attack.

If he’s sacked though they’ll go for McDermott. I can’t see a lot changing there though. It feels like we need a complete overhaul.

Tbh as long as it’s not Blake Green or someone like Anthony Griffin I’ll be ok.

It would never ever happen in a million years but I’d throw an insane amount of money at Bellache anyway. Again it would never ever happen but I’d be annoyed at the club if they didn’t have a crack anyway.
 
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Mr_Knightside

Juniors
Messages
2,495
Brad Arthur would have been my pick too but that ship appears to have sailed.

Who else would we realistically get?

One of the few guys out there who I think should get another crack is John Morris because I think he did a decent job with a pretty poor sharks roster after Flanno and a lot of the premiership winners left. But I’m not sure if he puts us much closer to winning a comp than we are now.

Josh Hannay has some wraps on him but he’s unproven aside from a couple of caretaker stints so that’s essentially another rookie coach.

I wouldn’t be going anywhere near guys like Griffin (basically more AOB ball) or Jason Taylor or anyone like that.

I dunno, there really aren’t many proven head coaches out there who are looking for a job.
 

Yosh

Coach
Messages
12,221
I still don't see what's wrong with McDermott. He has been here so he knows the ins and outs. Can't be any worse than AOB and can start off as a care taker coach. If he rocks it, keep him, if he doesn't on to the next.
 

perverse

Referee
Messages
27,057
One of the few guys out there who I think should get another crack is John Morris because I think he did a decent job with a pretty poor sharks roster after Flanno and a lot of the premiership winners left. But I’m not sure if he puts us much closer to winning a comp than we are now.
This is where I don't agree anymore. Any step in another direction takes us closer to a premiership than we are now - because sticking with the status quo will never get us there. A chance at something that isn't "never" has to be mathematically closer to a premiership than infinitely far away as we are now. Even if we get a worse coach, it'd lead us to look for another one. Progress isn't always linear, but you have to make a change if you want different results.

I would prefer a non-zero chance at improving over a zero chance at improving, basically.
 

Wizardman

First Grade
Messages
9,652
I hate it when people are overly critical of a coach, but there are times when it is valid. This is definitely one of those times.

Your side is blessed with some natural attacking talented players in a range of positions. I think your progress in this comp is f**ked due to three things.

1. Coaching: I strongly believe the coaching style of your team is to play "Give the opposition nothing" boring type footy. If you had a strong pack, I could kind of even accept the strategy. The make up of your team atm is just not suited to a grinding style of play. I WILL give some kudos to whoever is coaching your team in defence. They absolutely defend like a top eight side.....so I'll give AOB some credit there.

The most frustrating thing about your coaching was in the last ten minutes. In the last ten minutes, you side actually looked......good. They looked dangerous, desperate and played with some skill. How about they START next week with that same style of desperation they did in the last 10 tonight.

2. Playmakers: NONE of your playmakers are playing good footy....some due to not giving much of a f**k, some due to no ability at all.

3. The Middles. This is an issue that is getting worse as the season goes on. Let's look at them.

Saifiti: Good....but getting more bumps and bruises.
L Thompson: Decent......but the most overrated prop in the comp.
Frizell: Whole-hearted but cooked.
Elliott: Injured.....he gets no wraps out there, but my f**k your team is missing him.
 

Yosh

Coach
Messages
12,221
I hate it when people are overly critical of a coach, but there are times when it is valid. This is definitely one of those times.

Your side is blessed with some natural attacking talented players in a range of positions. I think your progress in this comp is f**ked due to three things.

1. Coaching: I strongly believe the coaching style of your team is to play "Give the opposition nothing" boring type footy. If you had a strong pack, I could kind of even accept the strategy. The make up of your team atm is just not suited to a grinding style of play. I WILL give some kudos to whoever is coaching your team in defence. They absolutely defend like a top eight side.....so I'll give AOB some credit there.

The most frustrating thing about your coaching was in the last ten minutes. In the last ten minutes, you side actually looked......good. They looked dangerous, desperate and played with some skill. How about they START next week with that same style of desperation they did in the last 10 tonight.

2. Playmakers: NONE of your playmakers are playing good footy....some due to not giving much of a f**k, some due to no ability at all.

3. The Middles. This is an issue that is getting worse as the season goes on. Let's look at them.

Saifiti: Good....but getting more bumps and bruises.
L Thompson: Decent......but the most overrated prop in the comp.
Frizell: Whole-hearted but cooked.
Elliott: Injured.....he gets no wraps out there, but my f**k your team is missing him.
We actually play brilliantly once there is less than 20 minutes on the clock and we are at least 3 tries behind. It happens every single time. We start throwing the ball around, stop caring about completions (funnily we stop dropping the ball) and the players actually look like first graders. Wish we would just play like that the whole game. Our defense is top notch though.
 

Woody90

Bench
Messages
3,007
I still don't see what's wrong with McDermott. He has been here so he knows the ins and outs.

You just answered your own question Yosh. It’s not a problem with McDermott per se, but he’s already here and ingrained in the system that’s not working. If McDermott were to be appointed there’s a very strong likelihood he keeps on most of the same support staff, including the attack coach/cosches, Wests might even encourage it to reduce the amount of $$$ they need to pay out…do you really want the coaches doing our attack to stay? Sometimes teams also need a complete shake up, and simply removing one person doesn’t do that. I think this is one of those times and we need a complete shake up with new voices.

You’ll probably end up getting your wish though because if AOB is sacked, Wests will no doubt try and save money by just employing one of the current assistants (and probably encouraging him to leave the rest of the staff as is). Like I said, if McDermott gets it I’ll be underwhelmed but ok, if Blake Green gets it I would be extremely concerned.
 
Messages
2,194
I still don't see what's wrong with McDermott. He has been here so he knows the ins and outs. Can't be any worse than AOB and can start off as a care taker coach. If he rocks it, keep him, if he doesn't on to the next.
Because he is part of the team fabric already and we are awful. What about him tells you it would be different if he was moved 1 rung up?

We need a change and fresh ideas. I have no confidence someone within the club already can provide that
 

HarVeeGee

Juniors
Messages
301
I hate it when people are overly critical of a coach, but there are times when it is valid. This is definitely one of those times.

Your side is blessed with some natural attacking talented players in a range of positions. I think your progress in this comp is f**ked due to three things.

1. Coaching: I strongly believe the coaching style of your team is to play "Give the opposition nothing" boring type footy. If you had a strong pack, I could kind of even accept the strategy. The make up of your team atm is just not suited to a grinding style of play. I WILL give some kudos to whoever is coaching your team in defence. They absolutely defend like a top eight side.....so I'll give AOB some credit there.

The most frustrating thing about your coaching was in the last ten minutes. In the last ten minutes, you side actually looked......good. They looked dangerous, desperate and played with some skill. How about they START next week with that same style of desperation they did in the last 10 tonight.

2. Playmakers: NONE of your playmakers are playing good footy....some due to not giving much of a f**k, some due to no ability at all.

3. The Middles. This is an issue that is getting worse as the season goes on. Let's look at them.

Saifiti: Good....but getting more bumps and bruises.
L Thompson: Decent......but the most overrated prop in the comp.
Frizell: Whole-hearted but cooked.
Elliott: Injured.....he gets no wraps out there, but my f**k your team is missing him.
It’s not a coincidence that Elliott is the player with the strongest winning record at the club despite what certain people tell you. The list of players in this competition who are genuine complimentary playmakers at 13 while having huge motors and some real physicality in that role is not long. He’s on that list. He’s not as good as say Cameron Murray but he’s a very good footy player. And he’s essential if your spine is going to consist of five-eighths, fullbacks and meat & potatoes hookers.

And yeah the style of play just does not suit the cattle. The funny thing is we are actually a leading offloading team - it’s how/when we’re doing it and the bizarre lack of players pushing up around the offloads that’s the issue. Even the attempts to generate unstructured opportunities are way too structured.

I can’t pretend I could do a better job than experienced NRL head coaches, but, with the players we have, I would be *heavily* de-emphasising really intricate running patterns. Obviously you need players running decoy lines but instead of training the team to sort of methodically work to certain spots on the field and then running through a complex set play routine with centremetre perfect decoy lines, I’d emphasise instilling general principles about when to be ready to run the unders lines but not stressing about perfection. I’d want my wingers and centres maintaining width in anything remotely resembling good ball, because for my money we don’t want to be compressing the line to go around it - we want to be forcing the opposition to spread their own D line as much as possible and target the spaces between those players. Our most dangerous running threats play further in - Best, Lucas, Ponga, Gagai and Sharpe. Spread the ball with a couple of key unders lines, forces the D to slide, early ball with time and space for our edge players & direct them to straighten or run against the grain. From there hopefully you force legs tackles, ineffective tackles where the ball isn’t wrapped up, and you get momentum, offloads, etc.

So… open footy. That’s the TLDR. Borderline have to not care about field position because we can’t win it.
 
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perverse

Referee
Messages
27,057
I hate it when people are overly critical of a coach, but there are times when it is valid. This is definitely one of those times.

Your side is blessed with some natural attacking talented players in a range of positions. I think your progress in this comp is f**ked due to three things.

1. Coaching: I strongly believe the coaching style of your team is to play "Give the opposition nothing" boring type footy. If you had a strong pack, I could kind of even accept the strategy. The make up of your team atm is just not suited to a grinding style of play. I WILL give some kudos to whoever is coaching your team in defence. They absolutely defend like a top eight side.....so I'll give AOB some credit there.

The most frustrating thing about your coaching was in the last ten minutes. In the last ten minutes, you side actually looked......good. They looked dangerous, desperate and played with some skill. How about they START next week with that same style of desperation they did in the last 10 tonight.

2. Playmakers: NONE of your playmakers are playing good footy....some due to not giving much of a f**k, some due to no ability at all.

3. The Middles. This is an issue that is getting worse as the season goes on. Let's look at them.

Saifiti: Good....but getting more bumps and bruises.
L Thompson: Decent......but the most overrated prop in the comp.
Frizell: Whole-hearted but cooked.
Elliott: Injured.....he gets no wraps out there, but my f**k your team is missing him.
Yep. Very yes to all of this. You can see it clearly from the outside looking in... blows my mind that the club can't see it and some of our own supporters still can't even see it. Double points for your accurate assessment of our forwards. Nail on the head.

Brian McDermott is our defensive coach and we've been singing the praises of his work for a couple of seasons now, just by the by. Agree, it's the one thing we do well and I do reserve some praise for the head coach on that front too (in the same way I reserve scorn for Blake Green - our attacking coach). It should be the foundation of a very successful team to be honest. I can't remember seeing a team defend so well and be so bad at the same time. It's very odd.
 

Woody90

Bench
Messages
3,007
I might be alone here, but I don’t think our defence is actually as good as is being made out. Yes our structure in D is good and we’re not conceding a bunch of points, but our sliding out and in defensive system has definitely come at the expense of defensive intensity and coming up and putting any real pressure on the ball carriers. When was the last time we forced the opposition into making an error? We’re also dropping off a lot of tackles through the middle. The ability for the edges to slide to save us is definitely good and AOB/McDermott should be commended for that part, but I wouldn’t say our defence is good enough to sway either keeping AOB or promoting McDermott.
 

Alex28

Coach
Messages
12,108
I still don't see what's wrong with McDermott. He has been here so he knows the ins and outs. Can't be any worse than AOB and can start off as a care taker coach. If he rocks it, keep him, if he doesn't on to the next.
If they aren’t listening to him as the defence coach, why are they going to listen to him as head coach?

You want to give him credit for all the good stuff - he’s responsible for the defensive problems we have now.
 

Alex28

Coach
Messages
12,108
Yeah, O’Brien may mutually agree with a 2 million payout. Saintly.
Is that what Braith and the News boys told you?

Termination of contracts almost never end up in a full payout. And if that was the case, we could just redeploy him to another part of the club - say junior development.
 

Apey

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
28,678
I might be alone here, but I don’t think our defence is actually as good as is being made out. Yes our structure in D is good and we’re not conceding a bunch of points, but our sliding out and in defensive system has definitely come at the expense of defensive intensity and coming up and putting any real pressure on the ball carriers. When was the last time we forced the opposition into making an error? We’re also dropping off a lot of tackles through the middle. The ability for the edges to slide to save us is definitely good and AOB/McDermott should be commended for that part, but I wouldn’t say our defence is good enough to sway either keeping AOB or promoting McDermott.
I think when people talk defence they're more talking about reading and shutting down attacking plays. We're reasonably good at that.

We let the opposition march up the field way too easily in the first place, though.
 
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