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Sack Griffin

Draginzaaar

Bench
Messages
2,634
The recent rule changes have placed a priority on attacking football which the top teams have either adapted to or were already structured for, eg Roosters, Raiders, Storm, etc. I watched the Storm v Manly game last Sunday on TV and while I am not a Storm fan I had to admire their thrilling back line play on display, admittedly against a weakened Manly side.
Meanwhile, our esteemed management has prioritized defense in its job description for the coaching role. Dragons Footy!

Defence will always win games
 
Messages
8,115
Yes, they can alter the rules to make it more attacking but you still have to cross the goal line.

If anything, focusing on a defensive strategy is more important than ever.

I could be wrong but I see a lot more clutch defence and attack moments in games.

A lot less time in the midfield. That’s how it seems, I don’t have any stats.

For mine, attack and defence eventually equal out in wash. Good to be strong in both departments.

A try saved is a try scored etc yes and I love the skill in holding up but give me good passing and backing up over the Cheeky Charlie line break and bolt any day.

Each to their own!

One game, many views!
 

Forbes Creek Dragons

First Grade
Messages
5,063
I could be wrong but I see a lot more clutch defence and attack moments in games.

A lot less time in the midfield. That’s how it seems, I don’t have any stats.

For mine, attack and defence eventually equal out in wash. Good to be strong in both departments.

A try saved is a try scored etc yes and I love the skill in holding up but give me good passing and backing up over the Cheeky Charlie line break and bolt any day.

Each to their own!

One game, many views!
I dont think you would find an NRL fan that would prefer defence over attack. It is just when you have a team like ours that is not bursting at the seams with superstars you have to make a gameplan that suits the cattle we have. Defence is the first step in winning games and making the 8, once you can get the attack going alongside rock solid defence that's where the step up to the top 4 and GF contention come about. Also there is more to defence than defending the try line, it is also keeping the other team up the other end with good defence, kick pressure and good game management with the kicking game. Our best hope of making the 8 is to improve these areas, even if we don't look like the Harlem Globetrotters it will be better than what we have dished up for 2 years at least. If we can get this right, get a centre that can pass, and finally get some fatigue into the opposition the tries will come.
 

Inisai Toga

Juniors
Messages
980
I dont think you would find an NRL fan that would prefer defence over attack. It is just when you have a team like ours that is not bursting at the seams with superstars you have to make a gameplan that suits the cattle we have. Defence is the first step in winning games and making the 8, once you can get the attack going alongside rock solid defence that's where the step up to the top 4 and GF contention come about. Also there is more to defence than defending the try line, it is also keeping the other team up the other end with good defence, kick pressure and good game management with the kicking game. Our best hope of making the 8 is to improve these areas, even if we don't look like the Harlem Globetrotters it will be better than what we have dished up for 2 years at least. If we can get this right, get a centre that can pass, and finally get some fatigue into the opposition the tries will come.
Used to love watching some of the great defenders of years gone by: Randall, Bunny Reilly, Ian Martin, Pearce, Smith & Chang, Rod McGregor, Coote, Stevens, Campion, Cooper, Beattie, Gillmeister etc..feel the game has lost so much due to the wrestle and the grab tactics now evident. Love it when the Dragons have tough defensive teams.
 
Messages
8,115
I dont think you would find an NRL fan that would prefer defence over attack. It is just when you have a team like ours that is not bursting at the seams with superstars you have to make a gameplan that suits the cattle we have. Defence is the first step in winning games and making the 8, once you can get the attack going alongside rock solid defence that's where the step up to the top 4 and GF contention come about. Also there is more to defence than defending the try line, it is also keeping the other team up the other end with good defence, kick pressure and good game management with the kicking game. Our best hope of making the 8 is to improve these areas, even if we don't look like the Harlem Globetrotters it will be better than what we have dished up for 2 years at least. If we can get this right, get a centre that can pass, and finally get some fatigue into the opposition the tries will come.

All really good points. The cow bell has really put defences on notice this year. I liked your fatigue point.

I am waiting for a player to get seriously injured from heat and exhaustion etc- especially when it warms up

We might have to move to four quarters and nite games again. That would suit you guys and us atm.

As usual, we wait for a catastrophe before anything happens.
 

muzby

Village Idiot
Staff member
Messages
44,428
I do love a good defensive game.

My favourite part of the game is the opening 10 minutes or so when nobody has scored a point..

Nothing says D-Fence! like a 0-0 scoreline
 

Forbes Creek Dragons

First Grade
Messages
5,063
Used to love watching some of the great defenders of years gone by: Randall, Bunny Reilly, Ian Martin, Pearce, Smith & Chang, Rod McGregor, Coote, Stevens, Campion, Cooper, Beattie, Gillmeister etc..feel the game has lost so much due to the wrestle and the grab tactics now evident. Love it when the Dragons have tough defensive teams.
I agree, I love watching blokes with good technique chop blokes in half, JDB has a technique that’s great to watch. I enjoy all parts of league personally but I think everyone in their heart of hearts love to watch a brilliant X factor player carve up a good defensive side more than anything. Or watch a team methodically break apart a defensive team. Something we haven’t seen for years. I’m always a fan of going for the touch line rather than the 2 points unless at a critical time in a tight game. If for no other reason than it gives you another chance to tire the opposition. But as I’ve said both would be nice, but D even by itself will do me for now after having neither for so long.
 

Inisai Toga

Juniors
Messages
980
I agree, I love watching blokes with good technique chop blokes in half, JDB has a technique that’s great to watch. I enjoy all parts of league personally but I think everyone in their heart of hearts love to watch a brilliant X factor player carve up a good defensive side more than anything. Or watch a team methodically break apart a defensive team. Something we haven’t seen for years. I’m always a fan of going for the touch line rather than the 2 points unless at a critical time in a tight game. If for no other reason than it gives you another chance to tire the opposition. But as I’ve said both would be nice, but D even by itself will do me for now after having neither for so long.
Yes agree, what I can’t stand are the 38- 34 type score lines or easy tries scored against poor defence. Been a real trend in our game for a while, particularly in the lower grades.

As you mentioned X factor : Fulton wonderful attack against brutal defence in 73, Goodwin 77. Score lines: 10-7and 7- all. I used to love going to the footy to watch great defenders. Not so much now. Believe the rule changes have them too far back and is in fact promoting the wrestle and the grab and removing the great leg tacklers from the game. Pity!
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
13,830
There has been some rumblings to trial 2 men in a tackle only ( except in attacking quarters ) .Would be interesting, more open game, it would bring back the leg tackles.Would help offset fatigue with only 2 involved.
The refusal of refs to correctly apply the “held” rule has created all sorts of nightmares in our game.

Once upon a time once the forward momentum was stopped it was instantly a “play the ball” call but now the guy can be momentarily stopped defensive pressure slightly released and he keeps going which helps promote the requirement to wrestle as part of defence.

This problem is also very evident when players are crashing over the try line and are held but the ball carrier is allowed to wriggle and squirm for almost an eternity in an effort to get the balk down despite obviously being held and having no further forward momentum.

Attacking players turning their backs to the defence and holding onto the ball looking for PCM also magnify the problem because it is very hard to apply a leg tackle vas you have to dive at his legs which are now further away due to a big arse being between the legs and the defender and the fact that if you do take them to ground any tackler team mate holding them in a reverse bear hug may run foul of the “crusher tackle rule” as a big hopper is especially top heavy.
Time for the NRL to think about how to apply the “held” rule in a proper manner and even go so far as to say that if you don’t immediately pass the ball as you turn your back to the defence then tackle will be called as “you” are no longer looking at / attacking the opponents goal line.
 

BLM01

First Grade
Messages
6,667
The refusal of refs to correctly apply the “held” rule has created all sorts of nightmares in our game.

Once upon a time once the forward momentum was stopped it was instantly a “play the ball” call but now the guy can be momentarily stopped defensive pressure slightly released and he keeps going which helps promote the requirement to wrestle as part of defence.

This problem is also very evident when players are crashing over the try line and are held but the ball carrier is allowed to wriggle and squirm for almost an eternity in an effort to get the balk down despite obviously being held and having no further forward momentum.

Attacking players turning their backs to the defence and holding onto the ball looking for PCM also magnify the problem because it is very hard to apply a leg tackle vas you have to dive at his legs which are now further away due to a big arse being between the legs and the defender and the fact that if you do take them to ground any tackler team mate holding them in a reverse bear hug may run foul of the “crusher tackle rule” as a big hopper is especially top heavy.
Time for the NRL to think about how to apply the “held” rule in a proper manner and even go so far as to say that if you don’t immediately pass the ball as you turn your back to the defence then tackle will be called as “you” are no longer looking at / attacking the opponents goal line.

100% correct OT. They have allowed elongated tackles and people holding them up which has led to most problems we have and coaches have concocted. The strip call 1 peels off then strip, 3rd man in to legs while 2 hold up, twisting, arm locks, tturning players around (now they are doing that themselves) etc...you name it and game has allowed it

I will go a step further. People whingeing about the 6 again and clubs cant cope with the speed etc and momentum resulting in blowouts.
Ok it is true. Leave the game the way it is (1 ref) stop the wrestling etc..but call held early when momentum has halted and encourage legs tackles by making players get up and play the ball properly (old chestnut) and FFS stop em moving and walking / crawling off the mark to avoid markers.
It is now becoming the biggest blight in the ruck.
It would keep the game moving and stop the BS around the ruck that has evolved again this year to rid the wrestle. Ref the game as it should be. Get linesman to have some accountability for inside the 10, off side, forward passes from dummy half and others things they dont bother wanting to see anymore.
 

True_Believer

Juniors
Messages
1,318
100% correct OT. They have allowed elongated tackles and people holding them up which has led to most problems we have and coaches have concocted. The strip call 1 peels off then strip, 3rd man in to legs while 2 hold up, twisting, arm locks, tturning players around (now they are doing that themselves) etc...you name it and game has allowed it

I will go a step further. People whingeing about the 6 again and clubs cant cope with the speed etc and momentum resulting in blowouts.
Ok it is true. Leave the game the way it is (1 ref) stop the wrestling etc..but call held early when momentum has halted and encourage legs tackles by making players get up and play the ball properly (old chestnut) and FFS stop em moving and walking / crawling off the mark to avoid markers.
It is now becoming the biggest blight in the ruck.
It would keep the game moving and stop the BS around the ruck that has evolved again this year to rid the wrestle. Ref the game as it should be. Get linesman to have some accountability for inside the 10, off side, forward passes from dummy half and others things they dont bother wanting to see anymore.

We started down that path a year ago (or was it 2?) but everyone was whinging that it stopped the free flowing game. The commentators whinged and whined constantly.

I agree the ruck is a mess. The 6 again may speed up the game slightly but it too is ruled on inconsistently. And when it is ruled on it seems there's a run of them in a row. If we actually reffed the game to the rules it might be a bit of a bump in the game, but it would end up being better for it.
 

BLM01

First Grade
Messages
6,667
We started down that path a year ago (or was it 2?) but everyone was whinging that it stopped the free flowing game. The commentators whinged and whined constantly.

I agree the ruck is a mess. The 6 again may speed up the game slightly but it too is ruled on inconsistently. And when it is ruled on it seems there's a run of them in a row. If we actually reffed the game to the rules it might be a bit of a bump in the game, but it would end up being better for it.
That was the huge problem and the games achillies heel. Listening to commentators who are pushed by their employees to whinge because it potentialy damages their entertainment product.
The game needs to be stronger and better than that. I suppose Toddy was in charge then so not surprised.
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
13,830
100% correct OT. They have allowed elongated tackles and people holding them up which has led to most problems we have and coaches have concocted. The strip call 1 peels off then strip, 3rd man in to legs while 2 hold up, twisting, arm locks, tturning players around (now they are doing that themselves) etc...you name it and game has allowed it

I will go a step further. People whingeing about the 6 again and clubs cant cope with the speed etc and momentum resulting in blowouts.
Ok it is true. Leave the game the way it is (1 ref) stop the wrestling etc..but call held early when momentum has halted and encourage legs tackles by making players get up and play the ball properly (old chestnut) and FFS stop em moving and walking / crawling off the mark to avoid markers.
It is now becoming the biggest blight in the ruck.
It would keep the game moving and stop the BS around the ruck that has evolved again this year to rid the wrestle. Ref the game as it should be. Get linesman to have some accountability for inside the 10, off side, forward passes from dummy half and others things they dont bother wanting to see anymore.
Great post

I meant to include the strip fiasco and the pushing off the mark, stepping to the side in the play the ball and I am pleased that you have covered it extremely well.


Used to love Rocket as marker using his knee to ensure that the guy playing the ball didn’t push forward.
 

Inisai Toga

Juniors
Messages
980
We started down that path a year ago (or was it 2?) but everyone was whinging that it stopped the free flowing game. The commentators whinged and whined constantly.

I agree the ruck is a mess. The 6 again may speed up the game slightly but it too is ruled on inconsistently. And when it is ruled on it seems there's a run of them in a row. If we actually reffed the game to the rules it might be a bit of a bump in the game, but it would end up being better for it.

100% correct OT. They have allowed elongated tackles and people holding them up which has led to most problems we have and coaches have concocted. The strip call 1 peels off then strip, 3rd man in to legs while 2 hold up, twisting, arm locks, tturning players around (now they are doing that themselves) etc...you name it and game has allowed it

I will go a step further. People whingeing about the 6 again and clubs cant cope with the speed etc and momentum resulting in blowouts.
Ok it is true. Leave the game the way it is (1 ref) stop the wrestling etc..but call held early when momentum has halted and encourage legs tackles by making players get up and play the ball properly (old chestnut) and FFS stop em moving and walking / crawling off the mark to avoid markers.
It is now becoming the biggest blight in the ruck.
It would keep the game moving and stop the BS around the ruck that has evolved again this year to rid the wrestle. Ref the game as it should be. Get linesman to have some accountability for inside the 10, off side, forward passes from dummy half and others things they dont bother wanting to see anymore.
It’s a myth that the game doesn’t flow. The paradox is that the wrestling is due to the fact that they are trying to slow the game down.The more they open it up the worse it gets cause the players can’t keep up.

I think they are too far apart personally. Reduce the distance and the interchange bench and you get back to an ‘endurance’ and horizontal game rather than a ‘vertical’ power ‘game. Skills like ball distribution and leg tackling come back and the metres discourse could end; I feel the refs could easily police the points raised.
 

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