1. Grand Final Edition OUT NOW:

    The 2020 NRL & NRLW Grand Final edition of The Front Row, our exclusive online e-magazine and match programme for Sunday's Grand Final Day! Also includes Super League Round 17 and 18 squads.

    The Grand Final edition brings you special stories from each camp - Paul Jobber chats with Panthers legend Scott Sattler recounts his famous moment in the sides 2003 title win and looks to the current crop of Penrith players; while Rob Crosby looks at Josh Addo-Carr as he laces up for what could be his final Storm game. Rick Edgerton has a Clive Churchill Medal guide, while Joshua Wells speaks to Brisbane NRLW star Millie Boyle as the Broncos cruise toward a Women's threepeat on Sunday.

    Add to that all the regular features you've come to expect - the programme for both Grand Final Day matches along with teamlists and details for Rounds 17 and 18 of the Super League - and you have one fantastic 32-page magazine for your Grand Final reading!

    EDITION 22 - READ NOW!

    Guest, click here to read online or download your free PDF copy

Season 2020 COVID-19 discussion thread

Discussion in 'Parramatta Eels' started by Tooooks, Mar 15, 2020.

  1. Hollywood Jesus

    Hollywood Jesus Coach

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2003
    Messages:
    11,496
    Likes Received:
    724
    Just on that link again and my original point - no new employees were hired. The drop in unemployment was simply people starting their own business so they could move from JobSeeker to JobKeeper and grab some extra money.

    No one is hiring - or at least the hiring is not large enough to cover those people who are losing their jobs.
     
  2. Gronk

    Gronk Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2006
    Messages:
    54,501
    Likes Received:
    9,470
    Nope. To qualify for job keeper, you need to meet the turnover test and demonstrate a 30% drop from (March) this year compared to last year. New startups don’t qualify.

    https://www.ato.gov.au/general/jobkeeper-payment/employers/eligible-employers/

    Then the staff’s circumstances need to also qualify by passing the March 1 test.

    https://www.ato.gov.au/General/JobK...Employee-test-requirements/#BK_1March2020test
     
    TheParraboy and hindy111 like this.
  3. Bandwagon

    Bandwagon Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2013
    Messages:
    25,920
    Likes Received:
    10,416
    I think you've misunderstood that part of your link, to qualify for JobKeeper a business has to have been trading and have at least one eligible employee ( could be yourself if a sole trader ) as at March 20.

    https://www.ato.gov.au/General/JobKeeper-Payment/Employers/Eligible-employers/

    So it'd be people moving off JobSeeker back into ( self )employment, rather than starting up. but the overall point is still valid, these are not new jobs, and if they're just moving to JobKeeper, they really aren't even jobs at all.
     
    TheParraboy likes this.
  4. Bandwagon

    Bandwagon Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2013
    Messages:
    25,920
    Likes Received:
    10,416
    See my above post, despite getting that wrong, the central point is still valid and true.

    In original terms, there was a 44,500 net increase in employment between July and August. This growth in original employment can be attributed to an increase in the number of owner managers (self-employed people) without employees, most of whom working in an unincorporated enterprise (e.g. a sole trader), which increased by 50,200 (Chart 1). In contrast, there was minimal growth in the number of employees (up 2,600).

    The increase in owner managers without employees is greater than the overall increase in employment as there was also a 9,300 decrease in the number of Contributing family workers.

    https://www.abs.gov.au/articles/strong-employment-growth-non-employees
     
  5. Gronk

    Gronk Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2006
    Messages:
    54,501
    Likes Received:
    9,470
    Melbourne grandma tells ABC news this moring via zoom, that her grandchildren have forgotten what she looks like because of the lockdown. :thinking:
     
    Eelementary likes this.
  6. Bandwagon

    Bandwagon Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2013
    Messages:
    25,920
    Likes Received:
    10,416
    If you can hold out long enough, capital gains will almost definitely kick in, but the point there was about new investors, not existing ones. Whilst i agree with what you're saying, I'd say that doesn't apply any where near as broadly for new investors at this point in time, as it would have a coupla years ago.

    Mostly because the first question you have to answer is "can you service the debt?"
     
  7. Gronk

    Gronk Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2006
    Messages:
    54,501
    Likes Received:
    9,470
    Bubble ?

    100% I saw this merkin in Newtown yesterday. I mean how can you miss a guy with that moustache wearing blue n yellow (not eels) footy shorts walking down King Street.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Gary Gutful

    Gary Gutful Immortal

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2010
    Messages:
    35,892
    Likes Received:
    11,224
    That could have been any number of the Newtown hipsters that walk down King St...
     
  9. Gary Gutful

    Gary Gutful Immortal

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2010
    Messages:
    35,892
    Likes Received:
    11,224
    I saw @Gronk ogling people in King St yesterday.
     
  10. Gronk

    Gronk Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2006
    Messages:
    54,501
    Likes Received:
    9,470
    f**k you
     
    strider and Gary Gutful like this.
  11. IFR33K

    IFR33K Coach

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2009
    Messages:
    10,893
    Likes Received:
    2,463

    Limp*
     
    Gary Gutful likes this.
  12. hindy111

    hindy111 Immortal

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2008
    Messages:
    33,659
    Likes Received:
    8,132
    Absolute motherf**ker. I was in Newtown yesterday wearing my blue and yellow sock
     
  13. Hollywood Jesus

    Hollywood Jesus Coach

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2003
    Messages:
    11,496
    Likes Received:
    724
    This was my first thought, too.

    So, this is the alternate theory - in the middle of a recession, where we had -7% growth (more than the last 30 years combined) while having the government chuck in 20% of GDP and iron ore through the roof (so, imagine how bad the real economy really was with these 2 taken out...maybe -20%?)...what everyone decided to do was give up government handouts, go back to being "employed" and risk being able to get more money than JobSeeker?

    This is what happened?

    Or, maybe they're not start-ups (new ABNs - because I haven't seen the ABN creation numbers), but people pulling out old ABNs and using those?

    Or, it's just a coincidence that not one new person was hired (after balancing out against losses) but 100,000+ people all decided to go back to work for themselves and give up government support? And not one of them decided to hire anyone else for their small business that was now back up and running? This is what happened?

    NOTE - One thing I may be missing, because I'm no expert on being unemployed - can I do some kind of work, be technically employed, but still receive JobSeeker? Like, work 10 hours a week but still be eligible for JS? Honestly, this is something that I didn't think of before, and could cover both sides of the equation, here. If it's true then my initial guess is wrong but I'm gonna need someone to validate that for me.

    Outside of that, however...is the above theoretical scenario really possible? 100,000+ people just decided to go back to working for themselves and gave up government support while there was zero net increase in people being hired?

    If my guess is wrong, and it could be...how else can the numbers be reconciled? Once again...100,000+ people started up their business again, none of them hired anyone, they all gave up JobSeeker...in the middle of what would most likely be a 20% fall in non-government/mining spending...?

    I'm open to ideas, here, gentlemen.
     
  14. Hollywood Jesus

    Hollywood Jesus Coach

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2003
    Messages:
    11,496
    Likes Received:
    724
    So, you mean since the Royal Commission? Yeah, fair enough...
     
  15. Hollywood Jesus

    Hollywood Jesus Coach

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2003
    Messages:
    11,496
    Likes Received:
    724
    From the link:

    Ok, weird - of the 111,000 people that re-started their business, two-thirds of them only did it part-time? They gave up JS for a part-time gig?

    Anyone care to interpret?
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2020
  16. Gronk

    Gronk Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2006
    Messages:
    54,501
    Likes Received:
    9,470
    * mincing
     
  17. Gronk

    Gronk Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2006
    Messages:
    54,501
    Likes Received:
    9,470
  18. Bandwagon

    Bandwagon Moderator Staff Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2013
    Messages:
    25,920
    Likes Received:
    10,416
    Absolutely you can, you can even be claiming job seeker and not be classified as unemployed because you weren't looking for work, particularly when the government suspended a lot of the mutual obligation
    rules.

    People who receive the JobSeeker or other similar government payments are not automatically classified as unemployed (just as those classified as unemployed will not necessarily be in receipt of a government payment) and how they are categorised depends on how they answer questions around labour market activity.

    The JobSeeker payment is paid to people who are looking for work or are sick or injured and cannot undertake their usual work or study for a short time, and who meet the eligibility requirements. People can also receive the JobSeeker payment if they have a job, if they meet a low income test.

    Recent changes to the JobSeeker program related to COVID-19 also meant that recipients did not have to meet the usual mutual obligation requirements, such as looking for work. Some of these obligations are gradually being reinstated from June onwards, and changes may lead to increases in active job search and an increase in the number of people classified as unemployed in future months.

    To be classified as unemployed in Labour Force statistics, a person must:

    • have actively looked for full-time or part-time work in the last four weeks; and
    • be available for work in the reference week.
    People who were waiting to start a new job within four weeks from the end of the reference week and could have started in the reference week if the job had been available then are also classified as unemployed.

    3. People not working any hours, including those who were stood down: it depends on their job attachment and pay, and potentially other labour market activity
    A person will be classified as employed if they:

    • had taken any kind of paid leave;
    • were away from their job for any reason (e.g. they were stood down), and were paid for some part of the previous 4 weeks (which could include wages subsidised through the JobKeeper scheme); or
    • were away from their job for four weeks or less for any reason, without pay, but believe they still have a job to go back to (e.g. they were stood down, with no pay).
    If a person is away from their job for four weeks or more without pay, or they believe they no longer have a job to be absent from, they will be classified as:

    • unemployed - if they have actively looked for work, and are available to start work; or
    • not in the labour force - if they have not looked for work and/or are not available to start work.
    There will be a range of ways in which people will have been stood down without work as a result of COVID-19. Some may be stood down with pay, some through paid leave (e.g. long service leave, annual leave, etc) and some without pay. Some people will perceive that they still have a job (but just no hours at the moment), while others will consider they have lost their job.

    These differences are effectively captured using Labour Force Survey questions, which support the ABS to effectively categorise people and produce key measures of the labour market.

    People stood down without pay from late March through to early May were away from their job for four weeks or more and therefore were no longer considered employed in May. This explains part of the further fall in employment in May.

    https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/l...loyment/labour-force-australia/latest-release

    So as you can see, whether you're receiving some form of benefit or not, doesn't mean anything in regards to whether you're considered unemployed or employed.
     
  19. IFR33K

    IFR33K Coach

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2009
    Messages:
    10,893
    Likes Received:
    2,463

    Hopefully they weren’t covered by your shorts...
     
  20. Eelogical

    Eelogical Coach

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
    Messages:
    14,752
    Likes Received:
    4,003

Share This Page