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Seasons 2020 + 2021 COVID-19 discussion thread

Gary Gutful

Immortal
Messages
41,023
23 May 2021, 3.6 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines have been given in Australia. In this period, the TGA has received 210 reports of deaths following immunisation – 109 have been reported for the Pfizer vaccine, 94 for the AstraZeneca vaccine

AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine​

We continue to receive reports of side effects to the AstraZeneca vaccine as it becomes more widely available in Australia. The reports are generally consistent with what is being observed internationally.


Good luck LAB RATS
You've pulled the same stunt that you tried with the US numbers. Just because the TGA receives a report, it doesn't make it so. I could use their adverse event reporting system to report the lack of apples in the vending machine but if they go and check and find a heap of granny smiths then it was clear that I was bullshitting.

You need to tell people what the outcome was after they were investigated.

Hint: It is highlighted.

"The TGA uses its adverse event reporting system to closely monitor reports of death following COVID-19 vaccination. During the early stages of the vaccine rollout in Australia and many other countries, deaths were reported following vaccination in older people living in aged care as this is where the vaccine rollout started. Many of these deaths were in frail elderly people and were coincidental with vaccination. This was confirmed following review by the TGA and medicine regulators in the UK, Europe and the US which found no specific safety concerns from use of the vaccines in older people."

"Apart from the single Australian case in which death was linked to TTS, COVID-19 vaccines have not been found to cause death."
 
Messages
3,986
You've pulled the same stunt that you tried with the US numbers. Just because the TGA receives a report, it doesn't make it so. I could use their adverse event reporting system to report the lack of apples in the vending machine but if they go and check and find a heap of granny smiths then it was clear that I was bullshitting.

You need to tell people what the outcome was after they were investigated.

Hint: It is highlighted.

"The TGA uses its adverse event reporting system to closely monitor reports of death following COVID-19 vaccination. During the early stages of the vaccine rollout in Australia and many other countries, deaths were reported following vaccination in older people living in aged care as this is where the vaccine rollout started. Many of these deaths were in frail elderly people and were coincidental with vaccination. This was confirmed following review by the TGA and medicine regulators in the UK, Europe and the US which found no specific safety concerns from use of the vaccines in older people."

"Apart from the single Australian case in which death was linked to TTS, COVID-19 vaccines have not been found to cause death."
Well that's a relief. And since when do apples come in a vending machine??
 
Messages
17,858
23 May 2021, 3.6 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines have been given in Australia. In this period, the TGA has received 210 reports of deaths following immunisation – 109 have been reported for the Pfizer vaccine, 94 for the AstraZeneca vaccine

AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine​

We continue to receive reports of side effects to the AstraZeneca vaccine as it becomes more widely available in Australia. The reports are generally consistent with what is being observed internationally.


Good luck LAB RATS
Another disengenuous post. Why didn't you post the rest of that very same page, which says (text bolded by me):

However, it is possible in frail older people that even relatively mild and expected adverse reactions following the vaccination may contribute to deterioration of an underlying illness. For this reason, the Product Information documents for both the Pfizer and the AstraZeneca vaccines provide advice about vaccinating frail elderly people (over 85 years old) and warn that the potential benefits of vaccination must be weighed against the potential risks for each individual person.

To 23 May 2021, 3.6 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines have been given in Australia. In this period, the TGA has received 210 reports of deaths following immunisation – 109 have been reported for the Pfizer vaccine, 94 for the AstraZeneca vaccine and seven where the vaccine was not specified. Most of these reports (93%) were for people 65 years of age and over, and over three quarters were 75 years of age and over. Many of the deaths relate to elderly aged-care residents.

The TGA reviews all deaths reported after vaccination and monitors for safety signals. Part of our analysis includes comparing expected natural death rates to observed death rates following immunisation. To date, the observed number of deaths reported after vaccination is actually less than the expected number of deaths.

Each year in Australia, there are about 160,000 deaths, equating to 13,300 a month or 3050 each week. In the most recent reporting year (2018)(link is external) two-thirds of these deaths were in people aged 75 years and over.
 

strider

Post Whore
Messages
70,375
Frail older people have a reaction and their health deteriorate due to underlying illnesses and they are NOT vaccine deaths ..... but same with the virus and they are virus deaths.

Its a bit inconsistent isnt it?

The old, they were gonna die anyway is good for one but not the other.
 

emjaycee

First Grade
Messages
9,872
You've pulled the same stunt that you tried with the US numbers. Just because the TGA receives a report, it doesn't make it so. I could use their adverse event reporting system to report the lack of apples in the vending machine but if they go and check and find a heap of granny smiths then it was clear that I was bullshitting.

You need to tell people what the outcome was after they were investigated.

Hint: It is highlighted.

"The TGA uses its adverse event reporting system to closely monitor reports of death following COVID-19 vaccination. During the early stages of the vaccine rollout in Australia and many other countries, deaths were reported following vaccination in older people living in aged care as this is where the vaccine rollout started. Many of these deaths were in frail elderly people and were coincidental with vaccination. This was confirmed following review by the TGA and medicine regulators in the UK, Europe and the US which found no specific safety concerns from use of the vaccines in older people."

"Apart from the single Australian case in which death was linked to TTS, COVID-19 vaccines have not been found to cause death."
Snap.
Was about to post this:

Apart from the single Australian case in which death was linked to TTS, COVID-19 vaccines have not been found to cause death.
 

emjaycee

First Grade
Messages
9,872
Frail older people have a reaction and their health deteriorate due to underlying illnesses and they are NOT vaccine deaths ..... but same with the virus and they are virus deaths.

Its a bit inconsistent isnt it?

The old, they were gonna die anyway is good for one but not the other.
My mother-in-law passed away in May. She was 81 years old.

She died from a broken hip.

Actually, she died from a myocardial infarction during surgery to repair her broken hip, but I guess verticalsmile will agree that she died from the broken hip.
 

strider

Post Whore
Messages
70,375
My mother-in-law passed away in May. She was 81 years old.

She died from a broken hip.

Actually, she died from a myocardial infarction during surgery to repair her broken hip, but I guess verticalsmile will agree that she died from the broken hip.
So both the injury and the surgery complication played a role in it. And you would say its logical to acknowledge both yeah?
 

Gary Gutful

Immortal
Messages
41,023
Frail older people have a reaction and their health deteriorate due to underlying illnesses and they are NOT vaccine deaths ..... but same with the virus and they are virus deaths.

Its a bit inconsistent isnt it?

The old, they were gonna die anyway is good for one but not the other.
I agree with this. I think that there is likely some overestimation re: COVID.
 

emjaycee

First Grade
Messages
9,872
So both the injury and the surgery complication played a role in it. And you would say its logical to acknowledge both yeah?
No. She died from the heart attack.
Well that was one of the causes, together with a blood clot, which caused the infarction, total shutdown of her organs and some other medical terms i don't remember. At least according to the coroner they were the cause(s).

I get what you're saying that counting deaths in the elderly who have contracted covid as a 'covid death' but not counting vaccinated elderly who die as a 'vaccine death' can be somewhat misleading but i don't think it is as simple as that.

A single cause of death in the elderly is not common. There are always more than one thing involved. Covid-19 has been identified as being a direct link to complications that can lead to death. The vaccine obviously hasn't in the majority of cases.
 

strider

Post Whore
Messages
70,375
No. She died from the heart attack.
Well that was one of the causes, together with a blood clot, which caused the infarction, total shutdown of her organs and some other medical terms i don't remember. At least according to the coroner they were the cause(s).

I get what you're saying that counting deaths in the elderly who have contracted covid as a 'covid death' but not counting vaccinated elderly who die as a 'vaccine death' can be somewhat misleading but i don't think it is as simple as that.

A single cause of death in the elderly is not common. There are always more than one thing involved. Covid-19 has been identified as being a direct link to complications that can lead to death. The vaccine obviously hasn't in the majority of cases.
I agree its not simple .... but it entirely was made "simple" for covid reporting

I'm not saying the 300 people who died soon after being vaccinated did so due to getting the vaccine .... though i bet quite a few did

I have no doubt there has been a concerted effort to make a big thing of covid positive deaths and also play down post vaccine deaths - in australia anyway ..... i think people are doing it cos they think its the right thing to do ..... but its entirely inconsistent
 

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
58,962
I agree its not simple .... but it entirely was made "simple" for covid reporting

I'm not saying the 300 people who died soon after being vaccinated did so due to getting the vaccine .... though i bet quite a few did

I have no doubt there has been a concerted effort to make a big thing of covid positive deaths and also play down post vaccine deaths - in australia anyway ..... i think people are doing it cos they think its the right thing to do ..... but its entirely inconsistent
There are not many medicines that do not have some sort of a side effect. Common asprin or ibuprofen are nonsteroidal anti-inflammatories and bring significant side effects to some and can lead to death.

I think that we need to take a perspective chill pill on the vax "injuries". Or if you think that it is significant enough to broadcast, compare it to the side effects of other mainstream common drugs to test the "severity" claims.
 

strider

Post Whore
Messages
70,375
There are not many medicines that do not have some sort of a side effect. Common asprin or ibuprofen are nonsteroidal anti-inflammatories and bring significant side effects to some and can lead to death.

I think that we need to take a perspective chill pill on the vax "injuries". Or if you think that it is significant enough to broadcast, compare it to the side effects of other mainstream common drugs to test the "severity" claims.
I agree ... all drugs have potential adverse effects. Everyone is best avoiding them if possible.

But how can you even make a comparison if a large number of it is not even acknowledged? .... if a LBA happens in the forrest, is it even a LBA?
 
Messages
33,991
I agree its not simple .... but it entirely was made "simple" for covid reporting

I'm not saying the 300 people who died soon after being vaccinated did so due to getting the vaccine .... though i bet quite a few did

I have no doubt there has been a concerted effort to make a big thing of covid positive deaths and also play down post vaccine deaths - in australia anyway ..... i think people are doing it cos they think its the right thing to do ..... but its entirely inconsistent
Exactly this.
 

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
58,962
I agree ... all drugs have potential adverse effects. Everyone is best avoiding them if possible.

But how can you even make a comparison if a large number of it is not even acknowledged? .... if a LBA happens in the forrest, is it even a LBA?
"Not even acknowledged" has become a talking point for the vaccine hesitant or objectors. Is the under-reporting of vaccine deaths really a thing or mischievous speculation ?

I ask because the TGA have open sourced this information for all to see.


Reported side effects for COVID-19 vaccines​

Gathering reports of adverse events following immunisation (AEFI) is just the first step in determining whether or not the effect is related to the vaccine and whether a significant safety issue is involved. Learn more about how the TGA identifies and responds to safety issues.
In the week of 7-13 June 2021, we received 2106 AEFI reports for COVID-19 vaccines.
To 13 June 2021, we received 303 reports of death following vaccination for COVID-19 vaccines.
By chance, some people will experience new illnesses or die from a pre-existing condition shortly after vaccination, especially if they are elderly. We review all deaths reported after vaccination and compare the expected natural death rates in a similar case group to observed death rates following immunisation to distinguish between possible side effects of the vaccines and coincidental events.
For reports of death other than TTS, our review of cases and analysis of reporting patterns does not suggest that the vaccine caused these deaths.
 

strider

Post Whore
Messages
70,375
"Not even acknowledged" has become a talking point for the vaccine hesitant or objectors. Is the under-reporting of vaccine deaths really a thing or mischievous speculation ?

I ask because the TGA have open sourced this information for all to see.


Reported side effects for COVID-19 vaccines​

Gathering reports of adverse events following immunisation (AEFI) is just the first step in determining whether or not the effect is related to the vaccine and whether a significant safety issue is involved. Learn more about how the TGA identifies and responds to safety issues.
In the week of 7-13 June 2021, we received 2106 AEFI reports for COVID-19 vaccines.
To 13 June 2021, we received 303 reports of death following vaccination for COVID-19 vaccines.
By chance, some people will experience new illnesses or die from a pre-existing condition shortly after vaccination, especially if they are elderly. We review all deaths reported after vaccination and compare the expected natural death rates in a similar case group to observed death rates following immunisation to distinguish between possible side effects of the vaccines and coincidental events.
For reports of death other than TTS, our review of cases and analysis of reporting patterns does not suggest that the vaccine caused these deaths.
Yes there is a page .... how many people see it? .... how often is it reported in the media? ... how many australians do you reckon know that 300 people died soon after being vaccinated (whether relevant or not)?

The official numbers cited about vaccine risk (ie the 1 in a million or whatever it is) are based on the 2 deaths and 30 odd acknowledged clot issues
 

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
58,962
Yes there is a page .... how many people see it? .... how often is it reported in the media? ... how many australians do you reckon know that 300 people died soon after being vaccinated (whether relevant or not)?

The official numbers cited about vaccine risk (ie the 1 in a million or whatever it is) are based on the 2 deaths and 30 odd acknowledged clot issues

Well of those 300 cases "reported" ...

For reports of death other than TTS, our review of cases and analysis of reporting patterns does not suggest that the vaccine caused these deaths.

Summary

  • The most frequently reported suspected side effects associated with Comirnaty (Pfizer) and AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccines continue to be events that were seen in the clinical trials, and are commonly experienced with vaccines generally.
  • Twelve additional cases of blood clots with low blood platelets have been assessed as thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome (TTS) likely to be linked to the AstraZeneca vaccine. The increase in the number of cases correlates with an increase in the number of doses of AstraZeneca vaccine administered during the reporting period.
  • This brings the total number of confirmed and probable TTS cases in Australia to 60. Seven of the 12 new cases occurred in individuals in aged between 50 and 59 years. When assessed using the United Kingdom (UK) case definition, three cases were confirmed and nine were deemed probable TTS.


^^^^

According to the findings, the incidence of thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome (TTS) following the AstraZeneca vaccine for people aged 20–49 is 20 per million.

That risk then halves to 10 per million for people aged in their 50s and 60s, and drops to about five per million for those 70 and over.

The analysis also breaks down the benefits by infection rate scenario – ranging from high, medium and low – based on an assumption of vaccine effectiveness of 80% over a period of four months.

If infection rates are medium – akin to Victoria’s second wave – the vaccine could prevent up to 1967.5 hospitalisations, 258.5 ICU admissions and 530 deaths per million, compared to a risk of 8.5 cases of TTS, for people over 50 in Australia.

The benefits for over-50s can also be seen when infection rates are low, with the potential to prevent up to 373 hospitalisations, 41 ICU admissions and 151.5 deaths per million.

The findings have added further weight to Australian Technical Advisory Group on Immunisation (ATAGI) advice for people under the age of 50 to receive Pfizer’s mRNA vaccine rather than AstraZeneca.

To date, GPs in Australia have delivered more than one million doses of AstraZeneca, out of which six cases of TTS have been recorded, including one fatality.
 

strider

Post Whore
Messages
70,375
Well of those 300 cases "reported" ...

For reports of death other than TTS, our review of cases and analysis of reporting patterns does not suggest that the vaccine caused these deaths.

Summary

  • The most frequently reported suspected side effects associated with Comirnaty (Pfizer) and AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccines continue to be events that were seen in the clinical trials, and are commonly experienced with vaccines generally.
  • Twelve additional cases of blood clots with low blood platelets have been assessed as thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome (TTS) likely to be linked to the AstraZeneca vaccine. The increase in the number of cases correlates with an increase in the number of doses of AstraZeneca vaccine administered during the reporting period.
  • This brings the total number of confirmed and probable TTS cases in Australia to 60. Seven of the 12 new cases occurred in individuals in aged between 50 and 59 years. When assessed using the United Kingdom (UK) case definition, three cases were confirmed and nine were deemed probable TTS.


^^^^

According to the findings, the incidence of thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome (TTS) following the AstraZeneca vaccine for people aged 20–49 is 20 per million.

That risk then halves to 10 per million for people aged in their 50s and 60s, and drops to about five per million for those 70 and over.

The analysis also breaks down the benefits by infection rate scenario – ranging from high, medium and low – based on an assumption of vaccine effectiveness of 80% over a period of four months.

If infection rates are medium – akin to Victoria’s second wave – the vaccine could prevent up to 1967.5 hospitalisations, 258.5 ICU admissions and 530 deaths per million, compared to a risk of 8.5 cases of TTS, for people over 50 in Australia.

The benefits for over-50s can also be seen when infection rates are low, with the potential to prevent up to 373 hospitalisations, 41 ICU admissions and 151.5 deaths per million.

The findings have added further weight to Australian Technical Advisory Group on Immunisation (ATAGI) advice for people under the age of 50 to receive Pfizer’s mRNA vaccine rather than AstraZeneca.

To date, GPs in Australia have delivered more than one million doses of AstraZeneca, out of which six cases of TTS have been recorded, including one fatality.
But did you even read what i said? .... you've just cited the risk for over 70s - whats it based on? The acknowledged cases .... thats my exact point .... by their own statement we already discussed earlier, old people with illnesses probably werent gonna handle it anyway .... so many of those arent even acknowledged cases

You dont need to give me the lecture on covid risk vs vaccine risk based on the numbers ..... i acknowledge there is a bad virus that we dont want people dying from
 

Gronk

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
58,962
You dont need to give me the lecture on covid risk vs vaccine risk based on the numbers ..... i acknowledge there is a bad virus that we dont want people dying from
I think that the overwhelming message from this vax brouhaha is that the risk-averse should get the Pfizer shot because it's safe. The Oxford AZ vax brings with it some challenges. Here is the yellow card reporting in the UK.

 

hindy111

Immortal
Messages
38,763
I agree with this. I think that there is likely some overestimation re: COVID.

I reckon nobody knew what the he'll was going on to begin with.And it was all quite innocent. But now that they've had time to work it all out they are also using the whole thing for other agendas and benefits that will suit. And every nation is different so will push different angles.
I wouldn't believe half the shit we are being told without questioning it.
You also have to think if it all was an over reaction then it isn't like they can admit to it now.
 

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