Shaun Johnson

[JJ]

I You cant expect him to just carve up against defences that train for him.

.

Not if he doesn't make contact with the defensive line

 

[Blair]

Was Maloney "lucky" enough to play behind dominant when taking 3 teams to the finals? Luck doesn't come into it with Jimmy; effort does.

But at the tailend of his career does SJ want to look all smashed up the way Jimmy does? .

 

[JJ]

While I'm not defending Johnson, and he should be accountable for being on and off, it is true that until this year (and only in parts), we haven't had an effective pack since his debut year.

More than that, you really have to look at the spines he's had to work with. Maloney and Locke were top level and Heremaia was solid - combined with a performing pack and good coach, SJ was terrific in that rookie year.

After that:
- Locke lost the plot and Maloney left
- Tomkins was a shocker
- Leuluai wasn't a half or a hooker, had no kicking game or playmaking ability
- Townsend was a promising rookie who got hooked for Leuluai
- Friend was no more than a hard working journeyman who was fading out
- Foran took the piss and wasted our time
- Tui was another walking disaster; Hingano and Lino not much better
- Luke was disinterested and out of shape when he first joined
- RTS, the real gun, had to sit out a long injury stint

Combine with that a run of average to poor coaches, the aforementioned non-performing pack and general fitness and attitude problems. Also add to that Johnson losing a yard of pace through injury as mentioned above.

It's only this year we started fixing our spine and fitness, and we're only now on the rise in terms of our forwards, these are the cards he's been dealt with.

Johnson needs to own more games, no doubt, and he's probably overpaid.

But thoughts of sacking him are ludicrous, he is far and above our best half and he's primed now to deliver his best years for us. He shouldn't be our scapegoat.

Don't think he should be sacked, but they should look hard at how much he is really worth for his next contract

 

[ZEROMISSTACKLES]

Would we have made the 8 in 2018 at all if SJ wasn't playing?

I think the answer to that question ends this debate.

I'd say no but it wouldnt surprise me if some said yes, that we would make it if SJ didnt play this year. The Penrith game a few weeks back was the one we needed to cement our spot in the 8. Shaun was the man in that game.

 

[JJ]

But at the tailend of his career does SJ want to look all smashed up the way Jimmy does? .

LOL "not the face, not the face"

Most premiership winning halves have some battle scars - depends how bad he wants to win - I still find it bizarre that he tries to be physical in defence, but steadfastly wont in attack - he's not the smallest half around, I really don't get it

 

[ZEROMISSTACKLES]

Not if he doesn't make contact with the defensive line

He does run it but not as much as you'd obviously like and the reason for that goes back to what I was saying earlier about a pack that can keep the defence busy and back tracking. When its backs ball (4th or 5th tackle play) he looks up and just can't see anything other than heaps of defenders holding their line and closing in. That is one of the main reasons as why I think he doesn't have a go. He'd rather pass it or leave it to someone else and just prepare himself for the kick.

 

[Mr Angry]

I preface this with I think Shaun is the most gifted elusive player I have ever seen.

But at the tailend of his career does SJ want to look all smashed up the way Jimmy does? .

This is perhaps more true than funny. Take up pakour Shaun.

In all serious. Someone has to get this through to him.

He wants to be Andrew Johns and Stacey Jones. Well guess what Shaun you are not.

You have proven not to be over many seasons. You are not a game manager. That is cool, nothing to be ashamed off. Get some one else for that.

You are our best attacking weapon running and setting up others.

Go watch tapes of Brett Kenny, find your Sterlo, more importantly leave him to get the team in the right spots for you to attack.

Do this and win a premiership., maybe two, scoring tries and setting them up.

Keep trying to do EVERYTHING and the results will not change, also played, S Johnson.

You are brilliant, just run, make space for others.

 

[JJ]

He does run it but not as much as you'd obviously like and the reason for that goes back to what I was saying earlier about a pack that can keep the defence busy and back tracking. When its backs ball (4th or 5th tackle play) he looks up and just can't see anything other than heaps of defenders holding their line and closing in. That is one of the main reasons as why I think he doesn't have a go. He'd rather pass it or leave it to someone else and just prepare himself for the kick.

I get that, but he seems to only believe he can/should run when the defensive line is broken or back peddling - that needn't be the case. He's a tremendous runner, and his passing game is very good - Thurston, Maloney, Moylan all get hit occasionally, but also create a lot more in even games because they will engage the line - as Angry points out, Brett Kenny was another - I know Johnson loves wearing the 7, but he plays 6, and he needs to do more than rack up brilliant stats against weak opposition - at present he's a flat track bully

 

[Penrose Warrior]

Would we have made the 8 in 2018 at all if SJ wasn't playing?

I think the answer to that question ends this debate.

I think we can expect more from a guy getting paid $1m a year that he gets us from 10th to 8th. One or two more wins, where we got over the top of good sides, would've had us top four. Games like the Dogs loss, Melbourne at home. Can't we expect he does something like the double FG effort against Canberra more than once a season? Yes, it's a 13-man game. But he's a $1m playmaker.

And we were the only team in the 8 who scored less than 500 points.

The equation is more like if we spend $1m on SJ - what if we spend $600k on a front-line prop (who's not Adam Blair), a good $300-odd K centre/2nd-rower whatever and play Lino at 7? Is that better than all being lumped into the SJ basket when we're not seeing enough from him in big games?

 

[Penrose Warrior]

I get that, but he seems to only believe he can/should run when the defensive line is broken or back peddling - that needn't be the case. He's a tremendous runner, and his passing game is very good - Thurston, Maloney, Moylan all get hit occasionally, but also create a lot more in even games because they will engage the line - as Angry points out, Brett Kenny was another - I know Johnson loves wearing the 7, but he plays 6, and he needs to do more than rack up brilliant stats against weak opposition - at present he's a flat track bully

Engaging the line also creates opportunities for other people. Shaun takes on the line a couple of times, he attracts defenders, it creates space for others.

Is there a stat for engaging the line in the NRL? If so, what are the numbers?

 

[JJ]

Engaging the line also creates opportunities for other people. Shaun takes on the line a couple of times, he attracts defenders, it creates space for others.

Is there a stat for engaging the line in the NRL? If so, what are the numbers?

I'd imagine there must be - but I think any large aggregations would be misleading for Johnson - I would imagine he gets great numbers when the opposition is back-peddling, while is anonymous in other games.

At the end of the day he's just a frustration as it's obvious how good he could be... on the down side he's now 28 and with 160 odd first grade games should be at the peak of his powers (if so, TBH it's underwhelming for me, especially at that price - the likes of Cody Walker and Luke Keary would be on far less - assuming the salary cap applies to the Rooster lol). On the plus side, his defence has improved and he's become more physical, he's not small, so there's no reason (and I think there's perhaps hope) why he can engage the line more in situations where the defence is not already decimated - TBH though, I still think Kearney's a potato, and McFadden and Jones while being halves haven't delivered much - I'd hope the club could engage someone like Matthew Johns, Brad Fittler, Peter Sterling etc to work with the halves on a consultancy basis - probably not Joey as he and SJ would just be telling each other how brilliant they are - some honesty and home truths are required - but as we've seem, when Fittler suggested Johnson might get his jersey dirty, the response from SJ was petulant - when most saw it as a constructive and legitimate criticism

 

[SpaceMonkey]

I wouldn’t be getting rid of him- but I’d be openly telling him that he’ll need to give up some of his contract so we can retain Lino because we’re getting a ton more value from the latter.

 

[RHYTHM AND STEALTH]

I went to the game against the Panthers had great seats in front. Havent seen the replay yet.

Saw first hand how SJ was playing. He wasnt allowed to do anything in that 2nd half due to cleary and Maloneys kicking. They were finding open space and when Hiku was fullback its not that hard. We just didnt have the field position to create anything

 

[Philip_Smith007]

Would we have made the 8 in 2018 at all if SJ wasn't playing?

I think the answer to that question ends this debate.

Depends who is there instead of him on his money really.
Cooper - Yes
Maloney- Yes
Munster - Yes
Reynolds - Yes
etc etc

The annoyance by most comes down to how much he is paid and the perceived lack of effort put in.

Hell maybe he is been told by the coach to not get tackled and just shovel it on, wait for the gaps dont make them????

 

[Blair]

All in all he was good this year, no? If he'd had a really good game last weekend would we be having this thread? I don't think so.

R & S is right up above (I was there too) but there were also two or three times in that second-half when we were attacking but Johnson still sat back and/or shoveled. He needed to fly in there with the dancing feet. As mentioned, the opposition would be freaking, creating chances for others. I watched some Penrith fans in that last 10-15 minutes, they went white when Johnson had the ball.

In those micro-moments we were desperate, he let us down.

 

[JJ]

I watched some Penrith fans in that last 10-15 minutes, they went white when Johnson had the ball.

In those micro-moments we were desperate, he let us down.

Those two points kind of sum it up

 

[Matua]

I went to the game against the Panthers had great seats in front. Havent seen the replay yet.

Saw first hand how SJ was playing. He wasnt allowed to do anything in that 2nd half due to cleary and Maloneys kicking. They were finding open space and when Hiku was fullback its not that hard. We just didnt have the field position to create anything

I was there as well and TBF they were finding space before Hiku was back at fullback too.

 

[Penrose Warrior]

All in all he was good this year, no? If he'd had a really good game last weekend would we be having this thread? I don't think so.

R & S is right up above (I was there too) but there were also two or three times in that second-half when we were attacking but Johnson still sat back and/or shoveled. He needed to fly in there with the dancing feet. As mentioned, the opposition would be freaking, creating chances for others. I watched some Penrith fans in that last 10-15 minutes, they went white when Johnson had the ball.

In those micro-moments we were desperate, he let us down.

Would we be having this thread? No, but that's the point. He didn't, and there's not enough examples of big games in a Warriors jumper where he have - as in this small sample size of one final but also against top eight sides, matches like the Dogs one a couple of weeks ago where we needed to keep winning to make top 4 etc. You're paying a guy $1m (I keep saying this) you need him to deliver in the big moments - not to slay bad sides and build a highlight reel. To be fair Shaun doesn't work in highlight reels now, he's a rock solid defender which is of huge credit to him from where he started in 20s, v good goal kicker, but he's not icing enough games.

You're right, it's about him showing intent to engage the line - get teams thinking he could at any moment. I think of some of the great tries he's scored against Melbourne, the one in '14 I think it was when we won over there, the semi-final '11, the one in the Nathan Friend flip try game...he's capable. But we don't get it enough

 

[TheDMC]

You're right, it's about him showing intent to engage the line - get teams thinking he could at any moment. I think of some of the great tries he's scored against Melbourne, the one in '14 I think it was when we won over there, the semi-final '11, the one in the Nathan Friend flip try game...he's capable. But we don't get it enough

SJ should have one, and just one KPI in 2019: Must run at the line at least 5 times a game, including once in the first 3 sets of the game.

The solution is so simple and obvious yet is not addressed year after year. I have no issue with his salary, his effort, his game management (cause he is not and does not need to be a maestro in that department).

We need to initiate a RUN SJ RUN campaign for 2019 - one positive message repeated over and over, on twitter/warriors FB, media, placards at games, harass Kearney with late night phone calls whispering run sj run, run sj run....

 

[Philip_Smith007]

SJ should have one, and just one KPI in 2019: Must run at the line at least 5 times a game, including once in the first 3 sets of the game.

The solution is so simple and obvious yet is not addressed year after year. I have no issue with his salary, his effort, his game management (cause he is not and does not need to be a maestro in that department).

We need to initiate a RUN SJ RUN campaign for 2019 - one positive message repeated over and over, on twitter/warriors FB, media, placards at games, harass Kearney with late night phone calls whispering run sj run, run sj run....

Great campaign idea.
Just hope he doesn't get confused.