Should there be 2 teams in Brisbane?

[Red&BlackBear]

You can bang your head against a wall for hours on end but the wall won't collapse, you will only be left with a splitting headache.

Central Coast Bears have every base covered to be successful. We have proven we can sustain a team considering how we've sustained a bid for so long. We have the support and it's people who bring consumer demand, it's people who we have in our corner. People who are forking out real money on the bid. Our catchement is big enough and our corporate support out weighs anyone else in the running. This isn't just a Bears thing, it's a bloody organization who are organized enough to show what we can bring to the table.

All this other arguements is irrelevant to the Central Coast Bears. What Brisbane Bombers , Bunyips or Goddos do is on them not us. Our leverage comes from a source of support both financial and consumer. Both of those things are important to any organization.

 

[Joker's Wild]

A quick straw poll of this thread shows that it's Queenslanders and Reds supporters knocking the Bears bid on the ridiculous postcode theory. No pro Bears forummer is knocking everything else. All I have done is throw up shortcomings of the ridiculous Bombers bid.. FFS I'm even advocating Redcliffe get a team in the NRL!

Even died in the wool NSW haters like Fourex can see the stupidity of the Bombers bid!!!!!!

If people like you were around in 1988, Newcastle would never have gotten in. Wrong postcode, too close to Sydney, another NSW side blah blah blah

Yep fair enough, it was an antagonistic line and unfairly aimed at some

BTW, I am not anti NSW expansion. Id love to see a Perth, Brisbane2, CC and possibly a NZ2 side get in. However common sense tells me that there will only be 2 spots up for grabs and imo adding another side into an area that already has so many NRL options available to local fans would not add as much value as either Perth or Brisbane2. The CC is in much the same boat as Wollongong imo.

Getting on to the Bombers bid. Do I agree with how they have gone about the bid so far? No, not really. Have they picked the right name? Certainly not. However, what I do agree with is giving fans up here a choice. There is a long way to go in this race given its been indicated that 2015 is the likely year all of this will go through, so the Brisbane2 organisers have time to get it right, hopefully they do because given how RL mad this town is, with arguably the best RL ground sitting idle every 2nd week, I can see good things coming out of a 2nd team in Brissy.

Id be happy with an Ipswich, Logan, etc side too but their biggest stumbling block as far as I can see would be a local stadium. Ive said before I believe that they would be fine playing out of Suncorp and I think they would have little choice in all reality. A new stadium would need significant funding from the state gov and I just cant see them justifying the expenditure given that some victims of last years floods/cyclone are still living in tents and small towns like Gladstone are crying out for more infrastructure due to the CSG boom.

 

[Goddo]

You can bang your head against a wall for hours on end but the wall won't collapse, you will only be left with a splitting headache.

Central Coast Bears have every base covered to be successful. We have proven we can sustain a team considering how we've sustained a bid for so long. We have the support and it's people who bring consumer demand, it's people who we have in our corner. People who are forking out real money on the bid. Our catchement is big enough and our corporate support out weighs anyone else in the running. This isn't just a Bears thing, it's a bloody organization who are organized enough to show what we can bring to the table.

All this other arguements is irrelevant to the Central Coast Bears. What Brisbane Bombers , Bunyips or Goddos do is on them not us. Our leverage comes from a source of support both financial and consumer. Both of those things are important to any organization.

:blahb: Bears :blahb:

Update your sig.

 

[adamkungl]

:blahb: Bears :blahb:

No worse than your repetitive ':blahb: QLD :blahb:' posts tbh...

 

[mattyf]

funny how someppl try to perceive themselves as someone in the know......

 

[Goddo]

I'd can it if Red&Black and co could admit their bid has deficencies.

But no, its just more "good news Bears fans!" BS and diss'ing the other bids, as if the Bears have a god given right for admission.

 

[adamkungl]

Why should they? Again, no different to the claims of the last few years that QLD is suddenly god's gift to Rugby League, because the Broncos and QLD pull a decent crowd (both of whom have been ridiculously successful for extended periods). Just pointing it out... feel free to argue the same points over and over until the end of time, this whole debate became pretty tiresome months ago tbh.

We haven't received any news or indication of what's likely to happen in months. We were all hoping that mid 2011 would be go time for expansion. Since then we are still no closer than we were in 2009. No bid has changed in any interesting way, nor any significant newcomers emerged, since the Bombers announcement of aaages ago.

Yawn.

 

[rednblack]

I'd can it if Red&Black and co could admit their bid has deficencies.

But no, its just more "good news Bears fans!" BS and diss'ing the other bids, as if the Bears have a god given right for admission.

That's right mate, all of us bears fans just come in here death-riding all the other bids. Of course, advocates of the other bids only ever have positive input about how their own respective bids are progressing, and never waste their breath trying to deride any of the other bids' progress.

ALL the bids have deficiencies. No-one claims otherwise.

Do you really think that a bears member, or a supporter of the bears bid, should be disallowed from being positive about our bid? You're a prime dic*head mate, honestly. You'll bitch on about we bears fans being positive about our own bid, but when did you last hear Perth Red pissing on the WA bid? Think before you type crap like that next time princess.

You have your opinion - fine, run with it - but its by no means flawless either. Point out for all of us this BS that we bears fans are claiming. Where are we pissing on other bids, as opposed to staking our claims and expressing our own views? There is FAR more bears-bashing going on by the loathsome likes of yourself and your ilk.

With inflammatory posts like yours above, I've gotta wonder if you're not just trolling. To suggest that any bears fan is incapable of rational thought, for instance, is one of the least subtle ways I've seen of trying to get a reaction.

 

[Loudstrat]

Ok, the best place to do that would be another team in Suncorp.

That's certainly not a given. The Crushers stats, remember?

But you are wrong in your initial assessment of the market place. The market involves various aspects, but is predominantly driven by TV rights. That isn't an overstatement. Its a fact - the game derives its value from selling media rights.

The game has grown to the point that in order to continue to grow revenue it must expand its reach to improve its financial clout.

And the best way to do that is to allow entry to viable bids from heartland areas, and when that is done, bring in viable bids from new areas that have shown to have excellent potential.

Two heartland areas are at the stage where they can submit a proper bid - Central Coast and Central Queensland. Perth is of course in the latter category. Nothing has yet emerged from anywhere else in Australia more than a series of media releases.

The GAME (ie not individual fans of clubs) doesn't need any more NSW sides. It certainly needs at least Perth, another South Queensland side and down the track Wellington.

:lol: Postcode-o-phobe. It actually does not need anybids, because it will not die without Perth!

There is no money to be made by expanding 70kms down the road when there are already 10 clubs within a 100km radius. Without bringing substancial TV revenue to the table the Bears are a non-starter.

FMD - they can bring an extra 16k through the gate easy. TV revenue will come from the extra 2 hours of broadcast time per week that 2 teams will bring.

Besides, the Bears bid is more remote than any Australian bid apart from Perth and CQ! You want remote, but you want a clone team out of the same stadium ffs!

So you only include Perth because its the only way to accomodate the Bears? That is stupid.

What is stupid is going to a 17 team comp! The next expansion will be in multiples of two, and if you dont realise that you have massive problems.

You do realise that there are a finite amount of players, sponsors and fans? The game must tap into as big a market as it possibly can with the resources available to it.

1 million people big enough for you Einstein?

Having more than half the competition within 100km of Sydney is STUPID. The game won't be able to tap into other markets effectively, reducing the fan and sponsor support of the game possible. And as such the players wages and quality of the game suffers. Which further reduces public demand.

:lol::lol:

I bet you were one of those gimps that sat in a Siberian cave waiting for the end of the world in 2009. There is no evidence that the Bears will reduce fans in other markets ffs! Will Cowboys home crowds and sponsorship plummet?

All you end up with is a Sydney metro cup comp like the Shute Shield. This is what will happen if the game ignores big, interstate growth markets. Its what you want though isn't it? League like in the 70s right? Meanwhile the whole world passes you by and the game dies.

You need psychological help. Bringing the Bears in will not kill the code outside of Sydney you spastic :lol:

Notice anything about the way every other football code is expanding? All trying to improve market reach, not contract it.

Contraction is what happened in Super League when Brisbane and News Ltd got some control in the game. What followed was the death of 2 clubs in Queensland, and one each in SA and WA.

Bringing in CC and WA is expansion.

The fact there are 3 South Queensland bids currently simply demonstrates how much demand there is for more teams there.

Queensland must get another side. There is too many fans, sponsors, players and TV dollars there to ignore it anymore. The Broncos monopoly can not be allowed to continue.

Same at the CC/Northern Suburbs. But for some reason people in NSW do not watch TV?

Perth also must get a side - its an Oztam capital with a unique timeslot that has developed its own bid (around what you would have called a "fake" club, the Reds from 1995).

So we place teams simply to make us look good in Oztam? Lets dump North Qld, Newcastle, NZ and Canberra because Oztam doesnt count regionals.

I am not anti-Bears.

You are so anti Bears it aint funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree that the next Queensland side has to have a point of difference with the Broncos, which is why I support the Ipswich-Logan Western Corridor bid. You should too.

As I have already said, I support any credible bid. When they become credible, let me know.

 

[Loudstrat]

BTW, I am not anti NSW expansion. Id love to see a Perth, Brisbane2, CC and possibly a NZ2 side get in. However common sense tells me that there will only be 2 spots up for grabs and imo adding another side into an area that already has so many NRL options available to local fans would not add as much value as either Perth or Brisbane2. The CC is in much the same boat as Wollongong imo.

There will only be 2 spots up for grabs, if at all - I agree with you there. I just cannot understand how the CC would not add as much value as anywhere else.

Getting on to the Bombers bid. Do I agree with how they have gone about the bid so far? No, not really. Have they picked the right name? Certainly not. However, what I do agree with is giving fans up here a choice. There is a long way to go in this race given its been indicated that 2015 is the likely year all of this will go through, so the Brisbane2 organisers have time to get it right, hopefully they do because given how RL mad this town is, with arguably the best RL ground sitting idle every 2nd week, I can see good things coming out of a 2nd team in Brissy.

Great grounds sitting idle every week is NOT a sound argument - the same argument an be lodged for the SFS and AAMI. Yes, Brisbane is RL mad, just like NSW. The essential thing is that the bid has to be spot on - because they will run the club. We hqave seen than in Newcastle in a league mad, junior rich area. When they get their act together they win premierships. When they dont they are f*cking abysmal.

Id be happy with an Ipswich, Logan, etc side too but their biggest stumbling block as far as I can see would be a local stadium. Ive said before I believe that they would be fine playing out of Suncorp and I think they would have little choice in all reality. A new stadium would need significant funding from the state gov and I just cant see them justifying the expenditure given that some victims of last years floods/cyclone are still living in tents and small towns like Gladstone are crying out for more infrastructure due to the CSG boom.

There is the problem. I agree Ipswich/Logan need serous action on a home ground - and concede that Suncorp is the obvious solution for a few seasons. Yet ultimately the core of a sucessful side up here needs to be in it's own area. Base it at Ipswich or Logan (or Redcliffe) and you have a new local side that also will pick up the "Bronco alternative" element, with a huge groundswell of local support. Base it at Brisbane CBD and you lose he "local team" element that the Broncos already claimed.

And that is so important. Example - many Raiders fans are angry and frustrated with an increasingly aloof management. Yet tomorrow you start up a rival NRL side there and see how easy it is to win the support of the locals.

For mine I just do not see a relevent and credible bid in SEQ at the moment. It's not to say one wont emerge. If a second Brisbane based side enters the comp and becomes established - great. To me it's just another team to play the Eels, and as long as we have passed that terrible phase of artificially butchering clubs like we did in he late 90's then great.

There is not one club apart from the ridiculous Hunter Mariners that I did not hate seeing get killed off. Those who DO want the bloodletting to continue throw around the NSW-centric bullsh*t as though for some odd reason anyone who wants the comp to get bigger is "anti expansion"

We are all League fans. We all deserve a team. It's a damn shame some cannot see it that way.

 

[Beowulf]

In all these discussions, I think we need to focus on what the criteria is that we do know about: sustainability and add value, based on 18 months of D Gallop media bites. Anything else is just hot air.

The Bears won't be rejected for being based in NSW or being within 100km of other teams. If the Bears can put a strong credible bid that will convince the IC it will not damage other clubs and add value, their location is 100% irrelevant.

They will only be denied if 2 other bids convince the NRL not only that they are at least as sustainable and add more value, but that any marginal benefits they bring over the Bears (and any extra value, if any at all, will be marginal at best) outweigh the loss for ever of a viable CC/northern Sydney presence in the game, because this is the endgame for the Bears. That cost has to be calculated in weighing up which bids to select.

IMO 2 other bids will not be able to do that, and it will take 2 to knock the Bears out. That's not attacking other bids, its simply my opinion.

 

[dangerousdave]

There is the problem. I agree Ipswich/Logan need serous action on a home ground - and concede that Suncorp is the obvious solution for a few seasons. Yet ultimately the core of a sucessful side up here needs to be in it's own area. Base it at Ipswich or Logan (or Redcliffe) and you have a new local side that also will pick up the "Bronco alternative" element, with a huge groundswell of local support.

Here we go again with your f**king Redcliffe. You obviously don't know Brisbane and are talking out your arse

 

[Loudstrat]

I know it enough to suggest that Redcliffe is viable - and a hell of a lot closer to Brisbane than Gosford is to Hornsby.

I do know that anyone north of Chermside is closer to Redcliffe than Suncorp.

 

[bobmar28]

The way I see it is to get more people through turnstiles.

The way you see it is to have evenly spaced dots on the map.

If this was a retail franchise and there was a huge untapped market, with the infrastructure in place just outside our nucleus, or further afield markets -all but one are smaller, with little infrastructure and a high failure rate, there would be no debate. CC first - then look at the rest.

Logistics suggest these things have to go in tandem, so it has to be CC and Perth now. SEQ later when they can get their act together.

Whats the point of ignoring a huge area ready to go?

I can honestly not understand how you morons want to knock back ANY viable bid - especially with aggressive competitors in the sporting marketplace!

If the only option is to add a 10th team to the Sydney region then I would rather see no expansion. But I am sure the Reds are ready to go and I hope the Jets will be as well.

And hey...that aggressive competitor is already a national competition and it's way past time for the NRL to do the same. When NRL goes national it will be the beginning of the end for AFL.

 

[Red&BlackBear]

If the only option is to add a 10th team to the Sydney region then I would rather see no expansion. But I am sure the Reds are ready to go and I hope the Jets will be as well.

And hey...that aggressive competitor is already a national competition and it's way past time for the NRL to do the same. When NRL goes national it will be the beginning of the end for AFL.

Like when we were national between 95-98? People who follow afl will follow afl regardless of what the nrl does and like wise with people who follow nrl, we'll follow nrl regardless of what afl does. I agree that adding a presence in WA is a priority but other national areas aren't helping themselves, so how is the governing body suppose to help them? I'm talking about SA here. WA have also had no outside help but they keep working hard towards their goal. CC has had no help and we keep working hard towards our goal too. Both bids/regions have helped themselves first and foremost. SEQLD (another team) aren't helping themselves, they are expecting that the NRL hand them a team on a silver platter.

Do the hard yards first and prove how much you can add to the comp via resources, sponsors, fans and audiences. If you sit on your arse and do nothing then in return expect nothing. The precedent has been set.

 

[smithie]

Here we go again with your f**king Redcliffe. You obviously don't know Brisbane and are talking out your arse

The Redcliffe area only has a population of about 50,000. There is no way they should be considered.

 

[Joker's Wild]

Like when we were national between 95-98? People who follow afl will follow afl regardless of what the nrl does and like wise with people who follow nrl, we'll follow nrl regardless of what afl does. I agree that adding a presence in WA is a priority but other national areas aren't helping themselves, so how is the governing body suppose to help them? I'm talking about SA here. WA have also had no outside help but they keep working hard towards their goal. CC has had no help and we keep working hard towards our goal too. Both bids/regions have helped themselves first and foremost. SEQLD (another team) aren't helping themselves, they are expecting that the NRL hand them a team on a silver platter.

Do the hard yards first and prove how much you can add to the comp via resources, sponsors, fans and audiences. If you sit on your arse and do nothing then in return expect nothing. The precedent has been set.

How much work did the GC do before they were readmitted into the comp? Im genuinely curious about this because on the surface it seems that they took much the same approach as the Brisbane2 bid currently is.

 

[Goddo]

Like when we were national between 95-98?

Thats an unfair comparison. You know what the game went through during that time.

People who follow afl will follow afl regardless of what the nrl does and like wise with people who follow nrl, we'll follow nrl regardless of what afl does. I agree that adding a presence in WA is a priority but other national areas aren't helping themselves, so how is the governing body suppose to help them? I'm talking about SA here. WA have also had no outside help but they keep working hard towards their goal.

True, but how many can we ad to the follow NRL group? Putting teams into Perth, Adelaide, Wellington will boost the number of people following the game.

CC has had no help and we keep working hard towards our goal too. Both bids/regions have helped themselves first and foremost. SEQLD (another team) aren't helping themselves, they are expecting that the NRL hand them a team on a silver platter.

You know that statement is wrong. There are 2 official SE Queensland bids, plus 2-3 rumoured ones. Simply a measure of demand for product really.

As has been said before, its not as easy for bids with no history to establish a fan base without a licence. Its catch 22 for the "new" bids under your argument. No fan base, no licence. No licence, no fan base.

Which is why you can't use the same measuring stick in regards to "fan engagement" with all bids.

Do the hard yards first and prove how much you can add to the comp via resources, sponsors, fans and audiences. If you sit on your arse and do nothing then in return expect nothing. The precedent has been set.

Err, they aren't sitting on their arses. All bids have developed financial models, sought sponsors. They will all have viable bid documents to submit. You are using the Bears measuring stick to guage other bids in some areas (such as memberships), yet are unwilling to conceed deficiencies in other aspects (such as TV rights).

 

[age.s]

Here we go again with your f**king Redcliffe. You obviously don't know Brisbane and are talking out your arse

Aren't you the guy that suggested CC was part of Sydney metro while Wollongong was a regional center in another thread?

 

[rednblack]

There are 2 official SE Queensland bids, plus 2-3 rumoured ones. Simply a measure of demand for product really.

Is it?

A more accurate assumption could easily be that its a measure of the divisions that exist in that town!

The current CC bid does not exhibit the same sickly symptoms. Whilst not a criticism of any particular bid, this fact dispells your myth that Brisbaneites are united in their desire for another local team.