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So how does this get fixed?

Tigerm

Bench
Messages
4,187
Remembering, everyone is on contract at the moment. We have limited choices to make, but choices have to be made?

Short term:
TBH, I didn't watch the whole game, but our right side defence was just terrible, hopefully Nofa and JTJ never play the same side again and both have a spell in reserves?
Though with a score line like we suffered, the whole teams defensive effort is questionable.
But, who goes and who stays?

Long term:
I think the NO paying overs is commendable, but we have the cash, use it for a few top shelf players FFS.
What positions do we need to update?
 

ColdWetPanther

Juniors
Messages
168
Everyone says this, but hard to do; buy temperament not talent. Tigers need to buy players who give 100%, consistently every week. Players like Twal and Brooks, while they have limitations, always have a go.

Build from there.

And best of luck; lots of teams have been where you are now, but found a way out of it. You will too; will take time though.
 

tiger102

Juniors
Messages
168
We have never been successful buying other clubs players. We have only done well when we developed and bought through our own. Look who we have bought over the last few years - most have been poor and taken up large amount of our cap. We need to stop looking at blokes like the Leilua Brothers, Tevita Pangai Junior and develop our own kids, like Logen Dillon, Liam Scolari, Iverson Fuatimau, Israel Ogden and the like. Our jersey Flagg side and Reggie’s are going well - let’s keep the good ones from these teams and develop them through. Sheensy can’t come quick enough.
 

Tiger05

First Grade
Messages
8,337
We are on the right path and it's going to turn around. We need to keep making the best recruitment and retention decisions that we can.

We need to get good players to the club. We need at least 2 to 3 but maybe 4 to 5 quality players. We can get outgunned in our outside backs and our forwards and our halves. We can compete at various times in all areas against some teams. It's just that we are at best a team fighting to make the top 8. So 9th to 10th is performing to the best of our ability.
 

Vozzy

Juniors
Messages
1,582
I'm not sure what the answer is. I watched the press conference until it cut out for some reason. Oddly Madge actually didn't seem to worried or angry. Maybe he is trying a different approach. He looks like a guy who's been let down so many times he can now see the funny side or something. I think being the Tigers coach makes you go crazy.

We all know who Madge is as a coach so I don't know the answer. Obviously he probably needs to go but that doesn't solve anything. From Tamous interview some players are not taking stuff seriously or walk around after beating weak teams like they are smug and then are the same who point fingers last night when tries are scored. I really believe Madge drills the right stuff into them but they fail to talk on the field.

JTJ obviously isn't the player he was but last night playing around him was Nofo, MBye and LL who all were so horrible in defence it made playing right centre impossible. We definitely got beaten early in the forwards to start then the backs later on. Funny enough the past 5/6 games the players who are showing the most effort are 1. Twal, 2. Brooks 3. Garner the rest had a night off last night. Yes Brooks was bad early this year and for the last 7 years but has been one of our best recently.

I actually disagree I bit I think we need to stop buying players and start looking at our own juniors in reserve/flegg and rebuild the culture with youth and players coming through together. This is what Penrith did they are the youngest team but have played together since they were like 15 and have a bond that has them all in origin contention. But they were port just 3-4 years ago.
 

Tigerm

Bench
Messages
4,187
I'm not sure what the answer is. I watched the press conference until it cut out for some reason. Oddly Madge actually didn't seem to worried or angry. Maybe he is trying a different approach. He looks like a guy who's been let down so many times he can now see the funny side or something. I think being the Tigers coach makes you go crazy.

We all know who Madge is as a coach so I don't know the answer. Obviously he probably needs to go but that doesn't solve anything. From Tamous interview some players are not taking stuff seriously or walk around after beating weak teams like they are smug and then are the same who point fingers last night when tries are scored. I really believe Madge drills the right stuff into them but they fail to talk on the field.

JTJ obviously isn't the player he was but last night playing around him was Nofo, MBye and LL who all were so horrible in defence it made playing right centre impossible. We definitely got beaten early in the forwards to start then the backs later on. Funny enough the past 5/6 games the players who are showing the most effort are 1. Twal, 2. Brooks 3. Garner the rest had a night off last night. Yes Brooks was bad early this year and for the last 7 years but has been one of our best recently.

I actually disagree I bit I think we need to stop buying players and start looking at our own juniors in reserve/flegg and rebuild the culture with youth and players coming through together. This is what Penrith did they are the youngest team but have played together since they were like 15 and have a bond that has them all in origin contention. But they were port just 3-4 years ago.
But Penrith had imports to help there players, by all means give them a UBD but get some success first, for us though, we are 10 yrs behind, just can't see the club and members thinking that another 2-4 years is going to acceptable.
 

stryker

Bench
Messages
3,629
We are on the right path and it's going to turn around. We need to keep making the best recruitment and retention decisions that we can.
You state this a lot but never go into how you arrive at this opinion.
10 years of misery and failure with no end in sight is not on the “right path” to me. I would argue this current squad is at least equal to, if not worse than any of our other sides from the past decade.
I really think this ship is sinking and the club will be relocated.
 

Speedy Gonzales

Juniors
Messages
510
I'm not sure what the answer is. I watched the press conference until it cut out for some reason. Oddly Madge actually didn't seem to worried or angry. Maybe he is trying a different approach. He looks like a guy who's been let down so many times he can now see the funny side or something. I think being the Tigers coach makes you go crazy.

We all know who Madge is as a coach so I don't know the answer. Obviously he probably needs to go but that doesn't solve anything. From Tamous interview some players are not taking stuff seriously or walk around after beating weak teams like they are smug and then are the same who point fingers last night when tries are scored. I really believe Madge drills the right stuff into them but they fail to talk on the field.

JTJ obviously isn't the player he was but last night playing around him was Nofo, MBye and LL who all were so horrible in defence it made playing right centre impossible. We definitely got beaten early in the forwards to start then the backs later on. Funny enough the past 5/6 games the players who are showing the most effort are 1. Twal, 2. Brooks 3. Garner the rest had a night off last night. Yes Brooks was bad early this year and for the last 7 years but has been one of our best recently.

I actually disagree I bit I think we need to stop buying players and start looking at our own juniors in reserve/flegg and rebuild the culture with youth and players coming through together. This is what Penrith did they are the youngest team but have played together since they were like 15 and have a bond that has them all in origin contention. But they were port just 3-4 years ago.
We went down the path of developing our own juniors then got poached by every Tom, Dick and Harry

it looks like we are trying to channel that path in place again but put smart people in place to insure that doesn’t happen.

I hate to say it but for a team that has had the worst defensive record for as long as I remember, we don’t help our cause by recruiting lazy / bone head players. Recruiting the Jet and BJ has been an abject failure and were both shown the door several times. The red flags should have been there

Brooks is basically our only competent defender in our 1-7 and that’s saying something
 

Front-Rower

Bench
Messages
4,888
We have only done well when we developed and bought through our own.
Like who? In 2005 when we won the competition our best players were Scott Prince, Paul Whaturia, Anthony Larfranchi, Pat Richards and Benji Marshall was/is far from being a wests junior.

Even is 2010/11 when we made the finals was thanks to blokes like Gareth Ellis, Lote Tuquiri and Sheens’ finally putting a semi decent halfback next to Marshall more so than anything else.

Heck, even in 2000 when Jarrod McCracken was taken out by those grubs at the storm was when our season went on the downhill slide.

Granted Lawrence, Hodgson and Farah are the exceptions.
 

Tiger05

First Grade
Messages
8,337
You state this a lot but never go into how you arrive at this opinion.
10 years of misery and failure with no end in sight is not on the “right path” to me. I would argue this current squad is at least equal to, if not worse than any of our other sides from the past decade.
I really think this ship is sinking and the club will be relocated.

You are a real merkin but I see your point.

I think we are on the right path because we have been losing the shit overpaid players that we've had on our roster. I agree with where you are coming from in that I don't think our current roster is much better than previous rosters but I think that is missing the point that we are building a better roster.

I can't see us being relocated. I think our problem is more a rugby league problem. I think the comp is too lopsided and we are one of the shit teams mainly through poor salary cap management including not rorting the cap.
 

Tiger05

First Grade
Messages
8,337
Recruiting the Jet and BJ has been an abject failure and were both shown the door several times. The red flags should have been there

Brooks is basically our only competent defender in our 1-7 and that’s saying something

Brooks should be given a medal. He has been great for us and cops it left, right and center despite playing well. BJ and the Jet have been abject failures but the club took a punt. I'd state both decisions aren't that bad because we can get rid of them easily.

It's easy to judge harshly with hindsight but I don't think too many said BJ was a crap signing at the time. JTJ has been a low dollar contract and therefore I don't see him as an issue.
 

Tiger05

First Grade
Messages
8,337
Like who? In 2005 when we won the competition our best players were Scott Prince, Paul Whaturia, Anthony Larfranchi, Pat Richards and Benji Marshall was/is far from being a wests junior.

Even is 2010/11 when we made the finals was thanks to blokes like Gareth Ellis, Lote Tuquiri and Sheens’ finally putting a semi decent halfback next to Marshall more so than anything else.

Heck, even in 2000 when Jarrod McCracken was taken out by those grubs at the storm was when our season went on the downhill slide.

Granted Lawrence, Hodgson and Farah are the exceptions.

We need to develop a top quality squad. You don't do that by only focusing on local juniors.
 

Shredder

Juniors
Messages
1,271
My concern is that I genuinely think we are halfway there, but by the time we get all the way there the good ones we have will be way too used to losing.

BJ, Talau and JTJ all just need to go.
We need to employ a defensive center to baby sit Nofo. Hopefully the English chap can do that.
We are short two hard forwards as well.

Im hoping that Musgrove and Stef continue to step up, but we need a forwards leader (Tamou isnt it).

Next Year we have Packers money and we might be able to move Mbye on. I would throw it all at Finucane. I dont care if we pay overs. We need what he brings and we are a shit storm. So pay overs.

Barring him, throw it all at the best forward available.
 

The_Frog

Bench
Messages
4,340
We went down the path of developing our own juniors then got poached by every Tom, Dick and Harry
Tedesco, Moses and Woods were all poached at the peak of their value as marquee signings. The advantage you gain with player development had already been realised with these blokes, in that you got them as young star players at bargain prices for their first 2-3 years in first grade. You would have had to pay market rates to keep them.

What you want is to keep those you want given the make-up of your roster while having replacements coming through ready to take the place of those who leave, on minimum salary or close to it. This is the advantage you get from being a development club, bringing blokes like Dane Laurie in on low-end deals until they are established stars. You lose this buying them on the open market. Then when their value rises you have to decide who is worth keeping and who isn't. It is a continual process and once in a while you get lucky with a bunch of good'uns coming through together.

The Panthers became more or less finals regulars by the 5th year, but it has taken almost a decade to really get into swing.
 

Tiger05

First Grade
Messages
8,337
Tedesco, Moses and Woods were all poached at the peak of their value as marquee signings. The advantage you gain with player development had already been realised with these blokes, in that you got them as young star players at bargain prices for their first 2-3 years in first grade. You would have had to pay market rates to keep them.

What you want is to keep those you want given the make-up of your roster while having replacements coming through ready to take the place of those who leave, on minimum salary or close to it. This is the advantage you get from being a development club, bringing blokes like Dane Laurie in on low-end deals until they are established stars. You lose this buying them on the open market. Then when their value rises you have to decide who is worth keeping and who isn't. It is a continual process and once in a while you get lucky with a bunch of good'uns coming through together.

The Panthers became more or less finals regulars by the 5th year, but it has taken almost a decade to really get into swing.

This is the approach that most teams have to take. The only teams who can do something different are teams that can rort the cap.

I disagree a little with your comments though. Most clubs don't cop a bunch of disloyal turds like we copped. I've never seen a more talented but less loyal bunch of turds come to the club than Woods, Moses and Turdesco.
 

stryker

Bench
Messages
3,629
This is the approach that most teams have to take. The only teams who can do something different are teams that can rort the cap.

I disagree a little with your comments though. Most clubs don't cop a bunch of disloyal turds like we copped. I've never seen a more talented but less loyal bunch of turds come to the club than Woods, Moses and Turdesco.
Which teams are rorting the cap?
I wouldn’t necessarily call those three disloyal. They came into first grade and experienced the true shitshow that this club is. With such a hostile and unpredictable work environment producing terrible on field results, it is understandable that they fled. The way they went about it is a different story however….
 

stryker

Bench
Messages
3,629
You are a real merkin but I see your point.

I think we are on the right path because we have been losing the shit overpaid players that we've had on our roster. I agree with where you are coming from in that I don't think our current roster is much better than previous rosters but I think that is missing the point that we are building a better roster.
Lol building a better roster…the sin bin saved us from copping 80 last night. Who do you claim is worth it in this current roster?
 
Messages
13,463
Which teams are rorting the cap?
I wouldn’t necessarily call those three disloyal. They came into first grade and experienced the true shitshow that this club is. With such a hostile and unpredictable work environment producing terrible on field results, it is understandable that they fled. The way they went about it is a different story however….
Probably didn't want to be the next Chris Lawrence. Spend 16 years at a club and only play finals twice.
 

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