SOO robbing international game

[Philip_Smith007]

This idea has probably been floated before,
But SOO continues to rob talent from smaller nations to feed itself and try to remain the "pinnacle" of rugby league. Uate being the latest target, when NSW has some pretty good wings in the ranks.

So could we make SOO a stand alone weekend, where international games get a run that same weekend?
SOO can be played on Sunday, or what ever night the “pinnacle” wants to be played.
Friday night we could have Nth of Bombays vs South of Bombays in a best of 3

Series could be happening amongst. (mix it up how you like, add teams as you like)
PNG v Fiji v Samoa v Tonga
NZ Maori v Indigenous
England v Ireland v France v Scottland

This would also make the NRL comp a little fairer, as people aren’t facing teams underdone. Plus grow the international game.

Thoughts?

 

[docbrown]

I dunno about this stand alone weekend stuff - it gives AFL and Rugby Union a massive boost.

I did suggest once a Melanesia vs Polynesia All Stars/Origin type game once though, but internationals would be better. Not sure about mid-season games as it affects the other NRL clubs.

The NRL have a New Zealand team so they need to start thinking outside Australia and become a defacto governing body for the Pacific region. Hopefully when the IC comes in, they can force changes to the eligibility rules.

For State of Origin, I'd like to see a mandatory residency rule - players must have also resided in the state continuously for a mnimum seven to ten year block - preventing fly by night ringers coming in.

State of Origin is still an Australian trial - but players shouldn't be forced to play for them if they're already alligned to a foreign national team. You can be both a Fijian and New South Welshman and should be allowed to play as such if you've resided there or were born there.

For international test match status teams, all player should have the same residency rule - meaning players can't swap willy-nilly.

For emerging nation status team, a limited percentage of players should be allowed a dual representation by parentage - just like how Hazem and co were able to help build the Lebanese league. But once these nations attain test status or when they play in World Cups, they must have all resident players.

 

[roughyedspud]

SoO is'nt a australia trial anymore...or else there'd be 17 queenslanders in the team

 

[siv]

Its simple 4 designiated in season "internatonal RL weekends"

We already have 2 "bye" weekends so its not a big deal starting the comp by starting the comp on Mar 1

Weekend 1
NSW City v Country Origin
QLD City v Country Origin
Round 1 Pacific Cup (NZ, PNG, Fiji, Cook Isl)
Round 1 Euro Cup (England, Wales, France, Ireland)

Weekend 2
SOO I
Round 2 Pacific Cup (NZ, PNG, Fiji, Cook Isl)
Round 2 Euro Cup (England, Wales, France, Ireland)

Weekend 3
SOO II
Round 3 Pacific Cup (NZ, PNG, Fiji, Cook Isl)
Round 3 Euro Cup (England, Wales, France, Ireland)

Weekend 4
SOO III
Final 1v2 Pacific Cup (NZ, PNG, Fiji, Cook Isl)
Final 1v2 Euro Cup (England, Wales, France, Ireland)
3rd v 3rd qualifier for End of Season 6 nations

Also during this period Pacific Shield and Euro Shield would be played for the next tier of countries

World Club Championship on say on Wed Oct 12 - rather than the stupid situation of Feb

Then between mid Oct and end of Nov RL 6 nations (OZ, Pac1, Pac2, Euro1, Euro 2, 3v3 qualifier)
Also a 6 Nation Euro Cup for remaining nations
Also a 6 Nation Pacific Cup for remaining nations

All telecast on Ch9 and pay-tv

 

[TheFrog]

SoO is'nt a australia trial anymore...or else there'd be 17 queenslanders in the team

Pick the 17 Queenslanders by all means. Call it Queensland. Then pick a NSW side. Then you might be able to have competitive internationals.

 

[hutch]

Its simple 4 designiated in season "internatonal RL weekends"

We already have 2 "bye" weekends so its not a big deal starting the comp by starting the comp on Mar 1

Weekend 1
NSW City v Country Origin
QLD City v Country Origin
Round 1 Pacific Cup (NZ, PNG, Fiji, Cook Isl)
Round 1 Euro Cup (England, Wales, France, Ireland)

Weekend 2
SOO I
Round 2 Pacific Cup (NZ, PNG, Fiji, Cook Isl)
Round 2 Euro Cup (England, Wales, France, Ireland)

Weekend 3
SOO II
Round 3 Pacific Cup (NZ, PNG, Fiji, Cook Isl)
Round 3 Euro Cup (England, Wales, France, Ireland)

Weekend 4
SOO III
Final 1v2 Pacific Cup (NZ, PNG, Fiji, Cook Isl)
Final 1v2 Euro Cup (England, Wales, France, Ireland)
3rd v 3rd qualifier for End of Season 6 nations

Also during this period Pacific Shield and Euro Shield would be played for the next tier of countries

something similar to this is the way forward, minus the city v country which is a meaningless game. other games which can be added are obviously tonga v samosa series, nz origin, nz v pacfic islands series and australia v nz anzac cup on the 4th weekend!

if this occurs, players who have dual nationality can have a fairer choice, make the choice and stick with it. origin is for australians, it just wouldnt work allowing players to play for nsw/qld and then for another country. where do you draw the line if you allowed this. can english and nz players play, what if the entire nsw line up played for countries other than australia? it would be a farce! uate simply should not be eligible for nsw and australia, but he should be allowed to play meaningful games mid season just as the australians do! why is it ok for australian players to be withdrawn from their clubs and nobody else? have stand alone rep weekends and grow our game, it is the way forward!

 

[hutch]

Pick the 17 Queenslanders by all means. Call it Queensland. Then pick a NSW side. Then you might be able to have competitive internationals.

nsw and qld arent international sides, how can you they make competitve internationals!

 

[nadera78]

Pick the 17 Queenslanders by all means. Call it Queensland. Then pick a NSW side. Then you might be able to have competitive internationals.

 

[docbrown]

Its simple 4 designiated in season "internatonal RL weekends"

We already have 2 "bye" weekends so its not a big deal starting the comp by starting the comp on Mar 1

Weekend 1
NSW City v Country Origin
QLD City v Country Origin
Round 1 Pacific Cup (NZ, PNG, Fiji, Cook Isl)
Round 1 Euro Cup (England, Wales, France, Ireland)

Weekend 2
SOO I
Round 2 Pacific Cup (NZ, PNG, Fiji, Cook Isl)
Round 2 Euro Cup (England, Wales, France, Ireland)

Weekend 3
SOO II
Round 3 Pacific Cup (NZ, PNG, Fiji, Cook Isl)
Round 3 Euro Cup (England, Wales, France, Ireland)

Weekend 4
SOO III
Final 1v2 Pacific Cup (NZ, PNG, Fiji, Cook Isl)
Final 1v2 Euro Cup (England, Wales, France, Ireland)
3rd v 3rd qualifier for End of Season 6 nations

Also during this period Pacific Shield and Euro Shield would be played for the next tier of countries

World Club Championship on say on Wed Oct 12 - rather than the stupid situation of Feb

Then between mid Oct and end of Nov RL 6 nations (OZ, Pac1, Pac2, Euro1, Euro 2, 3v3 qualifier)
Also a 6 Nation Euro Cup for remaining nations
Also a 6 Nation Pacific Cup for remaining nations

All telecast on Ch9 and pay-tv

Are you suggesting stopping the NRL and ESL 4 times to play only 3 games in the entirety of Australasia and 2 games in the entirety of Europe?

That's a big window for other codes to fill in.

Stand alone weekends for State of Origin have been tried before to no great success. I do agree about more international fixtures though.

In non-world cup years for the next 5 years or so, I'd hope that Australia would regularly play -

New Zealand thrice - a nominated anzac test after Origin plus two more games during Four Nations - the majority winner receiving the Anzac cup annually

England twice - during four nations, the majority winner receiving the Ashes

Either the Euro Cup or Pacific Cup winner twice - depending on hemisphere as part of Four Nations

Either the Euro Cup or Pacific Cup runner up once - depending on hemisphere, as either a warm up or post tournament one-off game

That's 8 annual games in non-world cup years played in 4 countries annually, comparable to the Wallabies' 13 in 5-6 countries - plus a potential 9th if/when they make the Four Nations final.

 

[LeagueXIII]

Why don't they change the rules ie. if you are from OS and played junior football in Australia at 16 you can play for NSW or QLD but are still allowed to play for your home country eg. Sonny Bill Williams.

This would be the greatest boost to international football alone alowing guys to play origin and also for their home nations.

 

[Springs]

origin is for australians, it just wouldnt work allowing players to play for nsw/qld and then for another country. where do you draw the line if you allowed this. can english and nz players play, what if the entire nsw line up played for countries other than australia?

It would work easily. English and New Zealand players can play if they are eligible, say Heighington could play for NSW and England, as he is eligible for NSW through playing the game there first, and eligible for England through heritage. However, someone like Burgess would not be eligible, having played senior footy first in England.
If the NSW line-up was made up entirely of players playing for other countries, then so be it, even though it will never happen.
If they changed the rule to this the absolute farce that we have at the moment wouldn't happen, Papua New Guinea has one player good enough to play State of Origin, what Australians call 'the pinnacle', and then we don't allow him to play for his country.

 

[RedVee]

I'd be happy enough if SOO was a weekend game with Pacific Cup and whatever qualifier NZ wanted to come up with (or not) on the same weekend for TV. All NRL players available for their countries.

The minnow countries MUST get more footy, Pacific Cup seems a good way forward using it as a qual for 4 Nations entry and WC ranking.

 

[roughyedspud]

Why don't they change the rules ie. if you are from OS and played junior football in Australia at 16 you can play for NSW or QLD but are still allowed to play for your home country eg. Sonny Bill Williams.

This would be the greatest boost to international football alone alowing guys to play origin and also for their home nations.

i have to agree to this...


ideally i'd like the rest of the world to play internationals while the aussies play SoO...but realistically thats never going to happen....the next best thing (probably better if i'm honest) is to allow the likes of Uate and mateo to play for NSW and fiji & tonga..


personally i think we should limit this rule to the pacific islanders & PNG.....ie not kiwis or englishmen..

 

[hutch]

Why don't they change the rules ie. if you are from OS and played junior football in Australia at 16 you can play for NSW or QLD but are still allowed to play for your home country eg. Sonny Bill Williams.

This would be the greatest boost to international football alone alowing guys to play origin and also for their home nations.

why would any kiwi stay and play with the warriors, which would rule him out of state of origin contention? sbw is not a new south welshman and simply shouldnt be eligible, neither should uate.

 

[S.S.T.I.D]

Its simple 4 designiated in season "internatonal RL weekends"

We already have 2 "bye" weekends so its not a big deal starting the comp by starting the comp on Mar 1

Weekend 1
NSW City v Country Origin
QLD City v Country Origin
Round 1 Pacific Cup (NZ, PNG, Fiji, Cook Isl)
Round 1 Euro Cup (England, Wales, France, Ireland)

Weekend 2
SOO I
Round 2 Pacific Cup (NZ, PNG, Fiji, Cook Isl)
Round 2 Euro Cup (England, Wales, France, Ireland)

Weekend 3
SOO II
Round 3 Pacific Cup (NZ, PNG, Fiji, Cook Isl)
Round 3 Euro Cup (England, Wales, France, Ireland)

Weekend 4
SOO III
Final 1v2 Pacific Cup (NZ, PNG, Fiji, Cook Isl)
Final 1v2 Euro Cup (England, Wales, France, Ireland)
3rd v 3rd qualifier for End of Season 6 nations

Also during this period Pacific Shield and Euro Shield would be played for the next tier of countries

World Club Championship on say on Wed Oct 12 - rather than the stupid situation of Feb

Then between mid Oct and end of Nov RL 6 nations (OZ, Pac1, Pac2, Euro1, Euro 2, 3v3 qualifier)
Also a 6 Nation Euro Cup for remaining nations
Also a 6 Nation Pacific Cup for remaining nations

All telecast on Ch9 and pay-tv

I'd even have something a little simpler than that. I'd scrap City-Country to start - a complete waste of everybody's time.

I'd certainly re-introduce stand-alone weekends for Origin. SOO is so massive that people would watch and attend in huge numbers even if it was on at 2am on a Monday morning. There is absolutely no reason why it has to be played on a Wednesday.

If SOO was on stand-alone weekends, then we would not need byes in the NRL, but I'd still have a full bye round, meaning that there would be 4 weekends during the year where there were no club games. These 4 weekends should be 'international' weeks where no club games can be played.

I would love to see a Pacific Cup involving Tonga, Samoa, Fiji and PNG. They would play each other once and the top 2 play each other in the final in week 4. The winner would play in the QN that year. The same would apply to the Northern Hemisphere with Wales, France, Scotland and Ireland. The bottom place getter in the Euro Cup would be relegated to the reformed Euro Shield the following year and the Euro Shield winner to enter the Euro Cup in the proceeding year. The winner of the Euro Cup would play in the QN in that year dependent on what hemisphere the QN is in.

I agree that the respective Shield and Bowl competitions would be played during the same period.

In week 1 there would be (as a very rough example):
- SOO game 1
- Samoa v Fiji
- Tonga v PNG
- Wales v Scotland
- France v Ireland

Week 2:
- SOO game 2
- PNG v Samoa
- Fiji v Tonga
- France v Scotland
- Wales v Ireland

Week 3:
- SOO game 3
- PNG v Fiji
- Tonga v Samoa
- Scotland v Ireland
- Wales v France

Week 4:
- Aus v Kiwis
- Pac Cup final
- Euro Cup final

The problem being that I'm not sure how England would get any during-season internationals under this scheme. It isn't perfect probably by a long way, but it is something that I have been thinking about for some time.

On the original point, Origin definately isn't good for the international game, but under a scheme like this its negative impact might be lessened.

 

[DACSSDOWN]

I agee with the thread. Players such as Costigan and Uate have stated their desire to play for their states, not particularly Aus. I think just by changing the SoO eligibility rules your can go a long way to helping International football. Let's face it Origin is no longer a selection for Aus team with Tests played a month before and four months afterwards and as previously said you can be a NSW/QLD as well as Tongan etc.

I think by combining some of the current international and origin rules we could end up with something workable. IE: 3 year residency in Aus and played first senior football (U16) in NSW/QLD. By doing this players such as Costigan and Mateo etc could play both Origin and their preferred Country. It wouldn't open Origin to players such as Ellis and Burgess, only those who in some way have come through the Aus/QLD/NSW systems.

If not this, then maybe a Tri Series between Tonga, Samoa and NZ at the same time as Origin.

Just a few thoughts.

 

[docbrown]

I think by combining some of the current international and origin rules we could end up with something workable. IE: 3 year residency in Aus and played first senior football (U16) in NSW/QLD

State of Origin -yep agreed, though I'd increase it to 7 years - that way it's really only open to players who have lived in NSW or QLD a decent stretch of time. This covers the players who were born overseas but moved to NSW in their childhood or as a young adult.

Test match status countries - should be birth or if by parentage a residency rule too - stops players swapping nation - no grandparent allowance. No dual representation.

Emerging nation countries - a limited percentage of players by grand parent rule with dual representation - but not for World Cup games, they should all be residents.

 

[siv]

Kiwi's had a interesting spin on this

A player must have made his mind up by age 23 on which country he wishes to represent or the kiwi's. He can leave the squad but won't be welcomed back

 

[Philip_Smith007]

If not this, then maybe a Tri Series between Tonga, Samoa and NZ at the same time as Origin.

I think you would have to sub out NZ for Cook Island, as no point really smashing up other teams. Thats why I suggested more of a North of Bombays vs South of Bombays setup.
Maybe the winner gets a shot at NZ?

Lots of great ideas, hope the IC look at it when ever they kick off.
If the players are complaining about not enough money, the game has to grow internationally, to grow more viewers to grow more advertising and sponsorship = more money in the game = more money to players.
Dont have an ego about it and look at other codes like Union and how they have achieved it with what most will think is an inferior product.

I remember a sh*t game of origin in 08 and how the commentory team said it was the greatest game, pinnacle of the sport etc. Havent watched many origin games as good at the World cup final that year. International is growing strong, but it needs to keep growing and not pulled back, by NSW desperation to try to actually win a series.

 

[deluded pom?]

Kiwi's had a interesting spin on this

A player must have made his mind up by age 23 on which country he wishes to represent or the kiwi's. He can leave the squad but won't be welcomed back

They also said they don't have a problem with younger players playing for a PI nation before "graduating" to the Kiwis. The PI nations should be the equal of New Zealand not some stepping stone to a Kiw jersey.:x