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Southern Orcas (NZ2)

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
5,218
I've thought for awhile now that the majority of the growth in NZ is in the lower tiers, not the NRL.

I reckon the NRL should work with the NZRL to launch a new second tier comp in NZ of about 6 teams. Make sure it's live on FTA, that'd make it more accessible than the Warriors, then partner each of them with an NRL side for development purposes.

I'd be tempted to go with a central ownership model for the clubs, just to make sure that they are run as well as possible and living within their means. The NRL could always sell them on once they were established and reasonably sustainable, but at least initially you'd want a high level of control over them to make sure they don't do anything stupid that jeopardises the sustainability of the league.

One of the major points of the comp would be to develop new talent pools, so I'd also cap the amount of Australian players each team can have. They can have as many players eligible for any nation other than Australia as they like, but are only allowed x-amount of Aussies.

It'd also be used as a trial run for clubs for NRL expansion. Need another NRL side in NZ, easy-peasy, just promote the NRLNZ club that is doing the best commercially. That way the NRL wouldn't need to play the guessing game of which market could best support an NRL side, they'd have years of data on which has been the most successful from their time in the lower tiers.

Obviously whether or not it's feasible would depend on broadcaster and sponsorship interest, but I reckon that if the NRL was smart about it that a NSW/Qld Cup quality comp would be doable within a decade or so, and that it'd have way more positives for the sport (on both sides of the Tasman) in the long run than simply adding another NRL side and calling it job done for another 30 years.
 

jim_57

Bench
Messages
3,218
I've thought for awhile now that the majority of the growth in NZ is in the lower tiers, not the NRL.

I reckon the NRL should work with the NZRL to launch a new second tier comp in NZ of about 6 teams. Make sure it's live on FTA, that'd make it more accessible than the Warriors, then partner each of them with an NRL side for development purposes.

I'd be tempted to go with a central ownership model for the clubs, just to make sure that they are run as well as possible and living within their means. The NRL could always sell them on once they were established and reasonably sustainable, but at least initially you'd want a high level of control over them to make sure they don't do anything stupid that jeopardises the sustainability of the league.

One of the major points of the comp would be to develop new talent pools, so I'd also cap the amount of Australian players each team can have. They can have as many players eligible for any nation other than Australia as they like, but are only allowed x-amount of Aussies.

It'd also be used as a trial run for clubs for NRL expansion. Need another NRL side in NZ, easy-peasy, just promote the NRLNZ club that is doing the best commercially. That way the NRL wouldn't need to play the guessing game of which market could best support an NRL side, they'd have years of data on which has been the most successful from their time in the lower tiers.

Obviously whether or not it's feasible would depend on broadcaster and sponsorship interest, but I reckon that if the NRL was smart about it that a NSW/Qld Cup quality comp would be doable within a decade or so, and that it'd have way more positives for the sport (on both sides of the Tasman) in the long run than simply adding another NRL side and calling it job done for another 30 years.

There was noise a few years back of a NZ Cup 2nd tier being create, from memory it was from Auckland RL. It is a major missing piece in the pyramid I agree. Shouldn’t be impossible to start with 6 teams whether they be new clubs or promoted existing clubs.

It would also be a natural way to put pathways in place for more Pacific Islands as well, Tonga and Samoa may not be able have their own team but they could both certainly by linked with a NZ Cup side to bring the best players over.
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
45,613
Could they play a nz comp this time of year? Might make it attractive for kayo to reduce the drop off from rl fans this time of year.
would ove to be watching French league, png digicell cup and a proper second tier nz comp on kayo!
 

flippikat

Bench
Messages
2,905
Last edited:
Messages
3,948
No not true lol. There are a lot more english and kiwis here than sth Africans.
at the 2016 census
10.4% born in uk
3.2% kiwi
2.4% indian
1.8% sth African
lol - so I should assume anything else he tells me is grossly exaggerated too - lol. He was on the drink at the time so that woudn't have helped
 

MugaB

Bench
Messages
4,292

Some of the stuff is not accurate but interesting article non the less.
Very interesting indeed, if its mostly true about 2024 being a year of expansion into the 18th team, and sky tv helping the free to air option (obviously out sourcing it) then this might be the goal they've set to get to conferences
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
5,218

Some of the stuff is not accurate but interesting article non the less.
It's interesting, but there isn't really much new in it.

The NRL's moves in NZ have been clear for roughly the last 6 months to a year, and the writing is well and truly on the wall that PVL and Abdo want the 18th side to be in NZ.

Whether or not that 2nd team happens in 2024 remains to be seen, but that article seems to suggest that Sky supports the idea, and that it may have even been discussed as part of the negotiations for the new broadcasting deal. If that turns out to be the case then you can basically bank that the 18th team will be from NZ, and that any further expansion of the NRL almost certainly won't happen for roughly a decade at the minimum, which is probably a great outcome for RL in NZ (and the PI's more broadly), but I'm not sold that it's the best move for the NRL or RL in Australia.

No matter how things go down I do hope that they pay a mind to the broader market and don't just focus on Auckland and either Wellington or Canterbury depending on which gets an NRL license. The real growth in NZ is in the lower tiers and grassroots, and that is also where the biggest moves against the NZRU can be made. Teams in every market aren't as valuable as siphoning as much of the best talent off as possible by offering them better opportunities in RL and feeding them into the RL system before they become stars in RU.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
5,218
I think NZ Rugby out played the NRL with the introduction of the Moana & Fijian teams into the Super stuff.
The 18th team would surely have been fishing in those waters for players.
Moana Pasifika, like all ethnic clubs (though they're more of a racial club really, which is even worse), is a disaster waiting to happen.

Besides Super Rugby's inability to compete in the talent pool with other larger RU's, and the NRL and AFL to a lesser extent, is Super Rugby's biggest issue atm. In other words it doesn't matter if they create teams that appeal to those markets if they can't keep most of the talent they produce because they can't compete with the financial opportunities that other competitions/sports offer.
 

cumbrian Mackem

Juniors
Messages
1,450
There wont be a team admitted in 2024, it will be 2027 at the earliest. I lost interest in the credibility of the reporter when he mentioned 2024 and the NRL toppling the All Blacks lol.
Exactly. Saying that the NRL could/will topple the All Blacks is about as ridiculous as saying that Aussie super rugby teams will topple the NRL.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
5,218
There wont be a team admitted in 2024, it will be 2027 at the earliest. I lost interest in the credibility of the reporter when he mentioned 2024 and the NRL toppling the All Blacks lol.
I don't think 2024 is out of the question considering PVL's history of bullishness and forcing and rushing things. It's probably unlikely, but not outside of the realms of possibility.

The NRL 'toppling' the All Blacks isn't out of the question either. In the early 00s when RU was flying many people at the club I helped out at laughed at me when I said that the AFL and NRL would suck the life out of the ARU within a couple of decades unless they made big changes in the grassroots, and look at RU now...

Considering the NZRU's current financial position, the internal competition they face from other competitions for talent, the fact that there've never really had to deal with an aggressive competitor on home soil before, and the All Blacks current position and the sport's reliance on their success to push interest within NZ, I think that RU in NZ is in a more precarious position now than it's been in a long, long, time.

Does that mean that the NRL will 'topple' the All Blacks; probably not in the foreseeable future, but A. it's not outside the realms of possibility, especially if the NZRU make a few critical mistakes, and B. they don't have to. All the NRL have to do to have a large impact is make themselves a strong competitor in the NZ market and take a significant portion of market share from RU in the process.
 

cumbrian Mackem

Juniors
Messages
1,450
I think NZ Rugby out played the NRL with the introduction of the Moana & Fijian teams into the Super stuff.
The 18th team would surely have been fishing in those waters for players.
Maybe not the Moana team but NZ Rugby Union definitely stole a March on the NRL with the introduction of the Fijian side.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
5,218
Maybe not the Moana team but NZ Rugby Union definitely stole a March on the NRL with the introduction of the Fijian side.
How?

It isn't going to be financially feasible for Fiji to have it's own NRL team for a long time, so all that matters to the NRL is whether or not they can scout players from Fiji, and considering that The Dura have existed since 2017 and it's had precisely zero impact on the NRL's ability to scout Fijian players I don't see what the issue is.

Besides, the jury is still out on whether or not the Dura are viable as a Super Rugby club, and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them struggle financially in the future.
 

cumbrian Mackem

Juniors
Messages
1,450
I don't think 2024 is out of the question considering PVL's history of bullishness and forcing and rushing things. It's probably unlikely, but not outside of the realms of possibility.

The NRL 'toppling' the All Blacks isn't out of the question either. In the early 00s when RU was flying many people at the club I helped out at laughed at me when I said that the AFL and NRL would suck the life out of the ARU within a couple of decades unless they made big changes in the grassroots, and look at RU now...

Considering the NZRU's current financial position, the internal competition they face from other competitions for talent, the fact that there've never really had to deal with an aggressive competitor on home soil before, and the All Blacks current position and the sport's reliance on their success to push interest within NZ, I think that RU in NZ is in a more precarious position now than it's been in a long, long, time.

Does that mean that the NRL will 'topple' the All Blacks; probably not in the foreseeable future, but A. it's not outside the realms of possibility, especially if the NZRU make a few critical mistakes, and B. they don't have to. All the NRL have to do to have a large impact is make themselves a strong competitor in the NZ market and take a significant portion of market share from RU in the process.

How?

It isn't going to be financially feasible for Fiji to have it's own NRL team for a long time, so all that matters to the NRL is whether or not they can scout players from Fiji, and considering that The Dura have existed since 2017 and it's had precisely zero impact on the NRL's ability to scout Fijian players I don't see what the issue is.

Besides, the jury is still out on whether or not the Dura are viable as a Super Rugby club, and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them struggle financially in the future.
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
45,613
I don't think 2024 is out of the question considering PVL's history of bullishness and forcing and rushing things. It's probably unlikely, but not outside of the realms of possibility.
Wont happen as there will be no tv renegotiation until 2025 earliest. The value of the 18th club could be massive as it gives an extra game to screen each round. They will want to be getting the max value out of that as they can. Realistically they should be looking for $30-40million a year extra for the extra tv slot, ideally on FTA. NZTV isn't going to stump that up.
 

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