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Taliban declares Jihad (holy war) against USA

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
109,597
The Taliban have denied declaring a Jihad. They have said that war is on if they get attacked but they have not made any declaration. The report is dusty.
I suspicious of this report because today the taliban have offered to hand bin Laden over and are looking for a compromise.

Thus far, only one country has said that 'this is war' - not Afghanistan.
 
C

CanadianSteve

Guest
Willow, you seem to have a problem with the Americans talking of war. An act of war was perpetrated against them!! Of course they are calling it war. The question is how they will conduct the war, which we have already discussed on the big thread.
Let's believe the Taliban handing over Bin Laden when we ssee it. If you read the column from San francisco on the other thread you'll see that the Taliban are bad guys too.
 
L

legend

Guest
This is going to be long, bloody and at the end of the day, Bin Laden would have already won. He has put fear into the hearts and minds of the Americans and probably the rest of us. He wants to see the west live in fear and that is starting to happen. I am also expecting more terrorist attacks in the not too distant future to ram the first point home. The ramifications of the last week will be with us forever.
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
109,597
Canadian Steve: You're damn right I have a problem with the Americans talking of war! But my reasons have nothing to do being pro or anti American.
If you were half aware of what war means, then I'm sure you'd have a problem with it to.

BTW,I have never suggested that the Taliban are 'good guys?'



 
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CanadianSteve

Guest
Well I'm not directly aware of what war is like, but I hope I'm at least half aware how terrible it is. But war has been brought to the US. They now have to react somehow.
When you say "only 1 country has said this is war - not Afghanistan" it sounds like you mean the taliban are being reasonable and the Americans aren't. Some of your other comments do strike me as being "anti-American". If you are saying you are only anti-war and not anti-American, then I accept that. I'm glad we can all have these discussions without getting too personal or emotional. (My wife doesn't quite understand why I spend time talking about rugby league or world events with a bunch of Aussies.)
Someone on the big thread, Legend perhaps, said it would be nice if the US could get Bin Laden out and overthrow the Taliban at the same time. I hope so
 

TheSaint

Juniors
Messages
464
Why are they doing deals with the Taliban anyway. They kill and enslave more people then those that died in the attacks on th 11th of September. Is an inocent Afgani life worth less then an American life? I don't think so.

Afganistan is close to three of the worlds largest countries, China, India and Russia. Russia and india would easily be drawn into the conflict as wars in Kashmir and Chzenya both recieve support from Bin Laden.

A large scale war between Pakistan and India would be horendous. Both have nuclear capabilities, don't particuarlly like each other for cultural and religous reasons. India has a large Islamic minority and neigboring Bangledesh is all so a Muslim country.Any sub-contenental conflict would see casualties move into the 10's of millions.

Any action must bevery carefully planned.

 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
109,597
Steve: Offcourse I'm not anti American. Thats a misconception that a few now have.
It's true that I disapprove of the some of the things I can see in US foreign policyand I also disapproved of some of Australia's international and domestic policies. It a political thing and nothing to do with countries or citizens. I suppose it's a fine line to some but to me, political and personal issues are miles apart.

Yes, I am anti-war. IMO, all possibilties have to be explored and exhausted before anyone even looks at the gun cabinet.

I was listening to an interview with a WWI ANZAC veteran on the ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) a few years back, just before he died. The old man was re-counting his experiences of war with all it's horrors. He concluded the interview by saying 'war should be abolished'. It was hard not to be touched by the simplicity of this statement.

 

imported_Beast

Juniors
Messages
172
There is no doubt that America will attack somebody or some State, but first they will want to at least give the impression that they are not alone, a loose coalition will do.
The Americans will use the majority of the force , through their air force, navy and large standing army.
However they miss the point entirely.
What all Americans must do, and not just their President and Congress, but most of the public is ask why that terrorist attack was carried out with the intention of taking so many lives and doing so much damage, physically and economically.
If the Americans fail to ask the question why somebody, some organisation or some State hates them with such passion and ferocity, then they will never know the reasons why this was brought about, and acts like this will continue to happen.
The Americans must look at their foreign policy and those who orchestrate and conduct their foreign policy.
For example:
Why is America so dislikedand distrusted in the Middle East?
Since the end of the second world war and the end of the cold war what has Americas intentions and interests been as far as the Middle East?
Why would a third world country, or countries, geographically so far from the US, and economically very poor with millions displaced be attacking the worlds super power?
Obviously there are hundreds of questions you could ask about American foreign policy but the above are the most pertinent in the climate of war that is being propogated at the moment!
 
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CanadianSteve

Guest
The US is hated by these fanatics because they support the existence and survival of Israel. Also because they stopped the invasion of Kuwait by the brutal dictator Saddam Hussein. If they changed their foreign policy Kuwait would still be in Iraqi hands, and the Israelis would be attacked by all their neighbours.
I know I am simplifying a complicated situation, and American oil interests also come into play. But even if the US public doesn't know much about the Middle East, the government does understand. And nothing they've done compares to, or justifies, the attacks last week
 

imported_Beast

Juniors
Messages
172
Thankfully we have seen or heard nobody condoning or justifying these attacks.
And oil was the overriding concern of the Americans and oil was the reason they launched the Gulf War.
Again America will ignore the questions mentioned earlier at their peril..any suppoosed war or conflict does not address the reason why they were assaulted.
They cannot win a war in the Middle East, just as they could not win those wars in Asia, Korea and Vietnam were lessons , hard lessons, that America fights outside its borders at its own peril!
I do not wish Australia or Australian servicemen to be dragged into a war that there is no hope of winning and is ostensibly a war of revenge or retribution.
Where does the retribution finish?
 
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CanadianSteve

Guest
Perhaps some people here would like the US to say this: On further examination of our foreign policy we realize we have brought these attacks on ourselves. We will stay out of the Middle East and not retaliate for the attacks. Good luck Israel, you're on your own now. And Saudis, we hope can can count on a continued supply of your oil, but we understand if you don't.
 
Messages
141
Here's an interesting peice of first hand experience I found on Afghanistan and the Taliban rule from the Time Magazine Site-

TYRANNY OF THE TALIBAN
A VISIT TO THE CAPITAL OF AFGHANISTAN'S EXTREMIST REGIME REVEALS A HARSH WORLD OF SUPPRESSION AND DESPAIR

BY CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR /KABUL
We were standing in Kabul's only hospital for women when the purist authorities of the Taliban decided they did not want any pictures taken. Screaming and shouting at us, they grabbed our TV cameras, all our tapes and even our briefcases. Several armed Taliban enforcers slapped a cameraman, while another rammed his rifle butt at visiting aid workers. One raised his hand toward Emma Bonino, the European Union Commissioner for Humanitarian Affairs, there to investigate the Taliban's treatment of women, and would have struck her but for an aide's intervention. The next thing we knew, a truckload of armed men were escorting us to the central police station. After several hours, they freed us and returned our cameras but refused to give back the tapes. "Now I know," says Bonino, "what the people of Kabul have to live with every day." The Taliban does not seem eager for the outside world to see how it has been ruling Afghanistan since its fanatical fighters stormed into the capital of Kabul a year ago. Here the young, often illiterate "students," who developed their extremist interpretation of Islam in the refugee camps of Pakistan during the 1979-89 war against the Soviet occupation, are a law unto themselves. In 1996, when my CNN team witnessed the beginning of their enforcement of their version of Koranic law, I challenged Taliban "ministers" to explain, and they told me all women's rights would be restored "once the security situation improves." One year later, the security situation remains dangerously unsettled. The Taliban has consolidated its hold over two-thirds of the country but is still fighting to extend its harsh rule over the entire nation. In the past year, the women of Afghanistan have endured extraordinary hardship, and last week's incident proved that the Taliban has no intention of easing the stern commandments that have virtually locked women away in a modern purdah. From the day they marched into Kabul, the Taliban's adherents have sought to eradicate women from public life. In a land where the women have had to work while the men fought, the regime has barred females from taking any job outside the home or even leaving their houses without a male relative to accompany them. Girls have been thrown out of school. Foreign-aid agencies have been forbidden to offer any of their services or assistance directly to females. Today Afghan women cannot even expect proper medical care. Three weeks ago, the Taliban decreed that female patients could no longer be treated at any of the main hospitals in Kabul and would be completely separated from male patients and medical personnel. We discovered that sick women are being sent to a crumbling old building that has no windowpanes, no running water, no proper operating room and barely enough electricity to power lightbulbs. The patients are tended by a meager female-only staff. In our two-day stay in the capital city, we watched agents for the Preservation of Virtue and Elimination of Vice enforce an endless list of edicts and absurdities at gunpoint, with rifle butts, with the backs of their hands. Women are forbidden to wear high heels or white socks because they are considered a sexual lure. Music and televisionis banned: cassettes are often snatched out of cars, the tapes stripped out and hung onto signs as a warning. Kites may not be flown, and most forms of public entertainment, like movies and games, are not permitted. The toll such measures take on Afghan women is impossible to assess. Several told us how dispiriting it is to be thrown off a bus or forced to sit in the back. We heard reports of an increase in the suicide rate among females, and that many have sunk into despair and depression. For Afghanistan's tyrannized women, there is no escape from an unsparing, medieval way of life. Christiane Amanpour is chief international correspondent for CNN.
==========================================
 

imported_Beast

Juniors
Messages
172
The Americans were content to fund Bin Laden and his extremists to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars and hundreds of millions of dollars worth of very advanced fighting equipment.
they helped create this monster now they are very eager to destroy him.
The Taliban are funded and armed by Pakistan, and also by other donations world wide.
Their policies are harsh in the extreme remembering the war torn and gun culture crazy place that it had become.
 

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