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Southernsaint

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
20,228
Yaaaaawn - everyone used to bag Frillingoose 24/7 until he died. Then they wanted to make him a deity.

Shallow as.
 

DIEHARD

----
Messages
7,037
Southernsaint said:
Yaaaaawn - everyone used to bag Frillingoose 24/7 until he died. Then they wanted to make him a deity.

Shallow as.

I nnever bagged Chippy so zip it. You shouldn't generalise.
 

Balmain_Boy

Guest
Messages
4,801
Southernsaint said:
Yaaaaawn - everyone used to bag Frillingoose 24/7 until he died. Then they wanted to make him a deity.

Shallow as.

So true. A myth is created when someone dies. Just like Hookesy.
 

Timmah

LeagueUnlimited News Editor
Staff member
Messages
100,970
Balmain_Boy said:
dodge said:
Do you want a f***ing medal for it? I mean, seriously, you're a whinging bitch. Your opinion doesn't count because you're a bitter twisted negative fool who, 5 years on from the merge and 9 years on from the war, still can't move on and find something else better.

First of all, calm down.

Secondly, my opinion DOES count on the matter, because I can no longer support the team my family supported for 4 generations in the top grade. That is a fact.

The attitude you take says to me that you think League sucks. Therefore why are you on this board still posting about it?

You got that out of one post - a post where I had the hide to tell some ex SL teams that the effects of SL are still being felt by supporters of the azxed clubs? I still love league. It is without doubt the Greatest Game of All. Having said that, i'm still f***ing pissed my beloved BALMAIN Tigers are no longer in the premier rugby league competition.

God you f**king "my team isn't what it was in 1995" whingers really need to wake up to yourselves. If the game has dents is usually because of your disgusting attitude towards it. Frankly we're better off without supporters like you

Bulldogs, NRL, forever!

Maybe next year I won't go to 18 games like I did this year. Maybe i'll stop the application process for my ref's certificate. Who the f*** do you think you are to dismiss my contribution to the game. What do you do for it? And I never usually bring up the dog's indiscretions, but seriously the game's dents in recent times have been down to your scumbag team and it's seige mentality. Bullfrog might be dead, but his spirit lives on.

If you're still going to 18 games a year and applying to the referee's assoc then why are you still bagging the f**k out of facets of our game that are passed and gone. Yes, you're entitled to be annoyed about the loss of your team but you seem to have half gotten over it, which shits ALOT of people in here, not just me. So many ppl are sick of hearing about super league it's just getting old. I'm not even going to comment on the Dogs remarks because of nick's post below, to which i'll direct that stuff.

Tiger nick said:
This coming from a supporter of the one club that has done more damage to the game then all others combined. How can you support such a disgusting organisation? How can you be proud of them? How can you say 'I support the Bulldogs' and not be ashamed?

I was five times as proud of my team then you were this year. If that statement isn't true then I worry about what kind of person you are

What a load of shit. If Super League is the spawn of the devil as the arguments here indicate, then why aren't the clubs (Brisbane, Canberra supposedly) that instigated it worse and why should they be proud? I know why. Because you aren't the chief indicator on who can hold pride. It is your opinion that my team has caused the most damage ever to the game. Good for you. You can go and support and worry about the Tigers. Not only did our great football team, the Bulldogs, bounced back from unfounded allegations on two counts this year. We won the premiership. If anything, us Bulldogs supporters should be 5 times as proud as you. However, I can't gauge your pride without knowing who you are first hand, so I won't claim like you have, to be prouder. I will say this though. Because I support a football team that had some indiscretions and keeps coming under fire, should I pack up and leave? Should I not be proud should they succeed? Some of us aren't that spineless. I support my team, the mighty Bulldogs, through whatever happens. Not once have I ever backed down from supporting them. You know why? Because I stand up for the things I believe in. And THAT is the sort of person I am.

Thank you.
 

Rexxy

Coach
Messages
10,621
Col Sanders, Bullfrog, Pork Morgan, Chippy ....[/quote]

Sir Clifford GC said:
come on mate thats pretty off, i got in trouble for the same thing, he may have been news limited but there was nothing wrong with the Chipster

yeah Cliff. I went too far. No disrespect to their families. It's just a game. Shows the level of feeling the debate can still create.
 

DJ1

Juniors
Messages
1,710
I'll post this in both SL threads as it is relevent.(you may want to merge the threads)

Just to summarize the situation where clubs were to be culled from the 20 team competition.

ARL Club culling plan,

The Bradley Report


An issue which loomed large with the clubs was the insistance on having to apply for inclusion to the competition each and every year. This provided no security as there was no long term committment from the governing body that your club would still be there in 10, 5 or even 2 years.

The clubs were also somewhat fearful of the hierarchy who at "The Premiership Policy Committee" meeting earlier on 9th April 1992 tabled a document called "A blueprint for the expansion of Rugby League". This document was followed up shortly afterwards in Aug '92 by a draft document sent to all clubs titled "Organization Review" by Dr G. Bradley of W.D Scott & Co commissioned by the governing body. This document is why the ARL became the governing body instead of the NSWRL. The recommendations in this report to the governing body and the clubs also reached the following conclusion,

" to reduce the number of clubs in Sydney, will be very hard for the League to implement given the long playing traditions of some of those clubs. In the long term, however, it is likely that Sydney is not going to be able to support eleven clubs as it does at present. Therefore in the long term this is the only viable solution. Sydney based clubs are going to have to move to new areas, merge or be relegated from the League. This is going to be a painful process.

In the long term I believe that the ARL should be looking to reduce the number of clubs in the National Competition to fourteen thus allowing clubs to play two complete rounds. This will mean, assuming that only four new clubs are admitted from areas outside Sydney, that there will be only five clubs based in Sydney."

This is the long term plan which the ARL were already working on prior to any notion of Super League.

On 2/5/94 John Quayle sent all clubs their letter of invitation to season 1995. This included a number of criteria for admission which included,

"attract a minimum average home attendance of 10,000 people"

(Of note, the following clubs failed this criteria for 1995, Balmain, Easts, Gold Coast, Illawarra, Parramatta, Penrith, Souths, St George and Wests)

The Broncos (A private company) when transferring a 20% share of their company to Northern Rivers Ltd had the new shareholder receive this from Mr Quayle,

"Under the terms of the League's Constitution, it is necessary that, without exception, all clubs which wish to participate in the League's Premiership competition, must apply each year for admission. No club has any automatic right to participate in any year's competition and the League has the unfettered right to reject any club's application for participation."


Manly instigates club cull as a matter of urgency


At least one loyal club took the view that Super League, perhaps in an altered version, was not out of the question. In a letter dated 16 February 1995, Mr Hudson, the chairman of the board of Manly Warringah, wrote to Mr Quayle:
"there are great advantages for News Limited in getting their current proposal, or some version of it, finally accepted. Hence, we feel that the proposition is not 'dead and buried' and that attempts to de-stabilise the competition will continue.

There is a vulnerability in this which News Limited have identified. Their twelve (12) team competition has just four (4) teams in Sydney. They can see that a Sydney club can only survive with great difficulty financially and logistically, against the competition provided by one city clubs, and now (for Brisbane) a two (2) club city.

If the situation of the eleven (11) teams in Sydney is not addressed in some way by the League, the threat of a take-over, or such like, will continue to loom large.

We suggest that a plan to address the problems of the eleven (11) Sydney clubs vis-a-vis their colleagues in other cities and in other states is urgently needed."
The letter went on to request that the question of the Sydney clubs be considered by the Premiership Policy Committee on an urgent basis.

The committee did consider the letter at its meeting of 14 March 1995. The meeting (at which Mr Quayle was present) unanimously agreed that the "future structure of the Winfield Cup competition should contain fewer Sydney clubs". The committee also expressed the view that "the Board should convene as soon as possible to demonstrate leadership on the issue of fewer Sydney clubs".


Rooster affiliated Packer's ARL assistance only on the condition that the ARL reduce teams


The board of the League met at 12 noon on 1 April 1995 to consider the Super League situation. Three representatives of PBL (a Packer company involved in the operations of Channel Nine) and two from Optus and Optus Vision joined the meeting. Mr Powers, on behalf of PBL and Optus Vision, stated that these organisations would provide human and financial resources to assist the League in stemming defections to Super League. Mr Powers said that Channel Nine and Optus were prepared to commit $13-20 million. He also stated that the quid pro quo would include the League making some changes to accelerate the reduction of teams and the signing of player contracts with the ARL, instead of the clubs. The board resolved that Mr Leckie, representing PBL and Optus vision, be appointed as a director of the League.


Roosters associates now have veto on which teams are to be omitted from the ARL

A document dated 11 April 1995 summarised "deal terms" between the League and ARL and Channel Nine/Optus Vision. This provided for Channel Nine/Optus Vision to fund player contract commitments up to $40 million. The League and ARL were not to change the competition, format and frequency of the competition in a materially adverse way without the consent of Channel Nine/Optus Vision.



So a question to all of you. Knowing now that the ARL was planning to reduce the number of Sydney teams to 14, knowing that the process was being driven as a matter of urgency by Manly and knowing that the people with veto power over the decision as to who stays and who doesn't were affiliated with the Roosters, what would the competition look like today?
 

DJ1

Juniors
Messages
1,710
Super League Pt 8
(please note quote boxes used to denote transcripts from court documents)

The conquest begins

As all prospects to gain the PTV rights via a "friendly" alliance between News and the ARL was eliminated by Arko and Packer, News now embarked on a hostile takeover with the intent to pressure the ARL into a joint alliance. The key point being that a "new" competition resulted in new PTV rights being up for negotiation.

The plan involved,

Firstly, sign the coaches and CEOs of the targetted clubs.

On or shortly after 28 March 1995, News entered contracts with the coaches of the Auckland, Canberra, Canterbury-Bankstown, Cronulla- Sutherland and Western Reds clubs. Each contract was constituted by a letter, countersigned by the particular coach. The term of the engagement in each case was three years, commencing three months after notice from News but no later than 1 January 1997. Each coach received a signing-on fee on execution of the letter. Mr Ribot acknowledged in evidence that it was very important to sign up the coaches, since they were thought to be instrumental in News' success in signing up players. He also acknowledged that in most cases the approach to the coach was made with the knowledge of the chief executive of the club.

Next, sign the majority of the high profile players at the club. This would then put the club itself into a position where it had virtually no option but to move to Super League as without key playing staff and officials the team would be basically eliminated from the ARL competition through the team reduction process which was already in play.


On 30 March 1995, the present proceedings were instituted by News. That evening, a number of Canterbury-Bankstown players attended a meeting at the request of their coach, Mr Anderson, who had already signed a contract with News. The first the players knew of the meeting was at training, when they were asked to attend that evening. At the meeting, Mr Ribot and Mr Lachlan Murdoch spoke to the players about Super League. Each player was then asked individually to sign a contract with a Super League company, which would require him to play full time in the new competition. The players were offered salaries of between $150,000 and $350,000 per annum, plus signing-on fees of between $50,000 and $100,000. The salaries, in general, were very much greater than the payments they were entitled to under their contracts with the Canterbury-Bankstown club. The players were not permitted to consult with their managers or families, nor were they permitted to take the contracts away with them. In the event, seven players signed contracts that night. The last contract was signed well after midnight. Each player who signed was handed a cheque for the amount of the agreed signing-on fee.


More clubs are targetted,

More or less the same process was repeated the following day, when a total of about twenty-six players from the Brisbane Broncos, Canberra and Cronulla-Sutherland clubs signed employment contracts with various Super League companies. In each case the coach supported the Super League approach. The salaries offered to these players ranged from $80,000 to $600,000 per annum. The signing-on fees varied from $20,000 to $100,000. Other players subsequently signed similar contracts, including thirteen Auckland Warriors players, who signed employment contracts on 2 April 1995 in New Zealand.

Mr Cowley, when challenged by Mr Arthurson as to how his actions were consistent with his promise to approach through the front door, replied:
"We thought that after we had bought your players that it would have such an effect on you that we would be better able to negotiate with you and come through the front door."
 

DJ1

Juniors
Messages
1,710
Super League Pt 9
(please note quote boxes used to denote transcripts from court documents)

ARL response, Packer takes over the ARL and demands team reductions.

The board of the League met at 12 noon on 1 April 1995 to consider the Super League situation. Three representatives of PBL (a Packer company involved in the operations of Channel Nine) and two from Optus and Optus Vision joined the meeting. Mr Powers, on behalf of PBL and Optus Vision, stated that these organisations would provide human and financial resources to assist the League in stemming defections to Super League. Mr Powers said that Channel Nine and Optus were prepared to commit $13-20 million. He also stated that the quid pro quo would include the League making some changes to accelerate the reduction of teams and the signing of player contracts with the ARL, instead of the clubs.

None of the ARL plan of team reductions are discussed in the media or on nine's Footy show as they are busy selling the idea that it is the SL that is tearing the game apart.

Canterbury, Cronulla and Canberra to be kicked out, Peter Moore resigns, Roosters associated PBL take over ARL.

The board resolved, that:

the Canterbury-Bankstown, Cronulla-Sutherland and Canberra clubs be requested to show cause why they should not be excluded from the competition;


a committee be established to identify and sign players to League agreements; and


Mr Leckie, representing PBL and Optus vision, be appointed as a director of the League.


In the course of the meeting, Mr Moore arrived. Mr Moore was a director of both the League and ARL. He was also a director and chief executive of Canterbury-Bankstown. Mr Moore had been actively involved in supporting Super League, and in securing the signature of the Canterbury-Bankstown coach (his son-in-law) to a Super League contract. Mr Moore offered his resignation from the League and ARL to Mr Arthurson outside the meeting. His offer was accepted.

More ARL threats

Immediately after the meeting, the League issued a press release. This stated that any players or coaches who had agreed to be associated with News would not be considered for representative selection. It also warned that the ARL would vigorously pursue through the courts any player found to have breached his obligations to the ARL. The press release indicated that the League, with the support of Channel Nine and Optus, through Optus Vision, would commit substantial resources to establishing financial incentives for players to play exclusively in the ARL competition.

England and New Zealand sign with Super League

A further meeting of the board of the League took place on 7 April 1995. Among other things, the board discussed the actions of News in completing arrangements with the New Zealand Rugby League and the English Rugby League. This was a matter of considerable significance to the League, since test matches between Australia, Great Britain and New Zealand had been conducted through the New Zealand and English Leagues.


Roosters associates to have veto vote on which teams are to be eliminated from ARL competition.

A document dated 11 April 1995 summarised "deal terms" between the League and ARL and Channel Nine/Optus Vision. This provided for Channel Nine/Optus Vision to fund player contract commitments up to $40 million. The League and ARL were not to change the competition, format and frequency of the competition in a materially adverse way without the consent of Channel Nine/Optus Vision.

ARL screwed for at least a further 5 years on TV rights.

The rights period under existing television agreements were to be extended for a further five years, with Channel Nine/Optus Vision to have a first and last right of refusal. Channel Nine/Optus Vision's funding commitment was non-recoupable, except as follows:

if the League and ARL agreed, it could be recouped over time out of fees received for television rights;


it could be recouped out of moneys received by the League and ARL for assignment of player contracts;


the commitment could be used as a set-off against the cost of exercising the right of refusal for renewal of the television rights agreement.

Basically, this means that whilst the ARL have handed the power over to Packer, the ARL will have to compensate Packer for any money spent by having it deducted from future TV rights payments. Great deal or what? Packer must have been laughing his head on the way down in the lift after that deal.
 

DJ1

Juniors
Messages
1,710
Super League Pt 10
(please note quote boxes used to denote transcripts from court documents)

The pinnacle of loyalty, nothing but a lie.

Fair current Market value is an even more interesting situation. Particularly in the case of Fittler. Everyone understands that market competition is a key factor in the setting of "fair market value". The primary driver of market competition at the time of the SL war was the race for player signatures between the SL and ARL. This resulted in a bidding war which drove the "fair market value" of a players contract up. Whatever a player managed to get was fair market value. In Fittler's case it was extremely unusual. Firstly the ARL announces that any SL players will not be eligible for selection in the Kangaroo squad. Then it makes Fittler the new captain as Meninga signs with SL. Fittler then announces that he will leave Penrith and stay with the ARL. This declaration of remaining with the ARL without having a club to go to should have dramatically reduced his fair market value as he had just eliminated the key driver behind the bidding war, SL. Despite the elimination of the key competitive force for his signature, he then signs one of the highest value contracts in history with the Roosters. Over $4M for 5 years as per Big League. It's clear from these events that the Kangaroos captaincy and a huge deal were all prior conditions of his media show of "loyalty".


This may be of interest to some regarding the Fittler show of loyalty,


These details are all quoted from court documents and sworn under oath by the relevant parties,

Regarding orignal Panthers Contracts
On 26 August 1993, Bradley Scott Fittler entered into an employment
agreement with the Penrith Club, a company limited by guarantee, as is the
League. The agreement was in he standard form of Playing Contract approved by
and uniformly used by the Leagues. On 25 July 1994 Matthew Charles Sing
entered into such an employment agreement with the Penrith Club. This also was
in the standard form in use by the Leagues.

Matt Sing gets paid $50K for loyalty prior to the Panthers move to SL
Thus on 3 April 1995, Mr Sing, for a
payment of $50,000 from the League, agreed to what were described as
"commitments to the League Competition" contained in clause 2 thereof
Essentially the commitments required the player for up to eight years not to
enter into any "Contractual Arrangement" relating to playing in any "Match" or
"Competition" other than the Rugby League Competition which the ARL and the
League "do and will in the future conduct".

Fittler gets paid $800K for loyalty prior to the Panthers move to SL
Mr Fittler on 4 April 1995 for a consideration of $300,000 and for a
further guarantee to meet any shortfall between the payment received by the
player under his contract to play in the League Competition and $500,000,
undertook equivalent obligations to those of Mr Sing.

The ARL went behind Penriths back to buy Fittler and Sing
I accept the evidence given that neither player entered into these
further Loyalty Agreements at the request of the Penrith Club or with the
knowledge of the Penrith Club at the time they were entered into, nor in a
form which mirrored any condition the Penrith club sought to attach to its
Commitment Agreement.

Panthers sign with SL
The next significant event is Penrith Club's entry into what I will
conveniently call the Super League arrangements. These involved a Deed of
Indemnity and Heads of Agreement both dated 3 May 1995. Under these
arrangements speaking generally, Penrith Club in conjunction with an only
partially associated entity and licensee AH PE Pty Limited, committed itself
to supporting the competing Rugby League football competition called
colloquially "Super League" set up under the control of News Limited and its
associated entities.

So, in a nutshell, it seems that loyalty came at a price and was negotiated and paid for even before the Panthers made the move.
 

DJ1

Juniors
Messages
1,710
Super League Pt 11
(please note quote boxes used to denote transcripts from court documents)

News continue the pressure on clubs to jump to SL and take on all litigation risk.

On 6 April 1995, News agreed to indemnify the Canberra Raiders against any action by the ARL or the League in consequence of the club contracting with News or supporting Super League.


During April, News made a concerted effort to sign up target clubs. By this stage, some had lost key personnel to Super League. Club representatives were told that if they did not join Super League, they would face rival clubs established in their area. Advertisements appeared in the media, giving publicity to the fact that prominent players had signed with Super League. News also placed advertisements advising players who had signed with the ARL that their contracts might be set aside because News had signed the English and New Zealand Rugby Leagues. Frequent meetings took place between News representatives and "rebel" clubs to obtain their support in implementing the proposed arrangements. In particular, meetings took place between News representatives and those clubs on 13 and 18 April 1995.

Extract from Super League Club Deed

Clause 3(a) provided that, subject to certain conditions, News agreed to indemnify the club (inter alia):
"(i) from any liability that Club may incur to ARL and or NSWRL under the Commitment Agreement or the Loyalty Agreement or both by reason of club entering into and delivering this deed or observing or performing the provisions hereof on its part to be observed or performed".
By cl.4(a) News also agreed to indemnify, again subject to certain conditions:
"each of Club's directors and officers (each "Indemnified Party") from any liability that Indemnified Party may incur to ARL, NSWRL, Club, Club's members or any other person by reason of Club entering into and delivering this deed or observing or performing the provisions hereof on its part to be observed or performed...".
Deeds in this form were executed by Auckland, Brisbane, Canberra, Canterbury-Bankstown, Cronulla-Sutherland, North Queensland and the Western Reds. The deeds were expressed to be operative for periods of between three years (for example, Cronulla-Sutherland) and nine years (for example, Brisbane). Subsequently, on 4 May 1995, Penrith entered into a deed in similar terms, although the indemnity was wider, extending to liability under any joint venture arrangement. On 12 May 1995, the existence of the deeds to which the eight clubs were parties was publicly announced.

The Players

A total of 307 players and 10 coaches entered into Super League contracts. Of those, three players subsequently had their contract cancelled by agreement and four players had their contracts cancelled following proceedings in the New South Wales Industrial Commission. Consequently, at the date of the hearing of the appeal, 300 players were parties to the current Super League contracts. None of these had proceedings on foot seeking cancellation of the contracts. We were told that 42 of the 300 contracted players had signed on or prior to 2 April 1995. (On 1 April 1995, the League and ARL announced that it would be signing players in competition with Super League.)
Counsel representing the intervening coaches and players prepared a schedule listing the 300 players. The schedule specified, in each case, whether the player was party to an ARL club contract and, if so, the year in which the contract expired. A summary of the contractual status of the 300 players is as follows:


(i) Players who never had ARL club contracts - 28

(ii) Players who had ARL club contracts expiring in 1995 or earlier - 109

(iii) Players who had ARL contracts expiring in 1996 or later - 163


Of those in the third category, 30 had contracts expiring in 1997 and only 7 had contracts expiring later than 1997.
 

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