The 2013 World Cup Thread

[EelsFan05]

Johns or Lockyer wouldn't have got us off the bottom of the table this year.

I think they would have, but it's all hypothetical isn't it?

 

[Eelementary]

:lol: serious? Now you are being silly. Hindmarsh was easily as good as Kennedy and Buderus and better than the other 3. Those players won a premiership because of Joey, do you remember what the score was when we played them in 2001 without him?

And one of the players you mentioned is a player Hayne has actually played with.

I think Hayne is brilliant, I just don't think he's anywhere near the best in the game. And NSW isn't a 'half-decent' team, it's one of the best in the world, and apart from 2009 he still hasn't been that great. He was really good this year but only played one game. He hardly 'tore it up' in 2010-12. And he's been excellent for Australia but hasn't played against a top side.

I think he has the potential to be the best in the game - 2009 was the best form I've seen from any player - but he isn't at the moment. Needs to be way more consistent.

They won that Grand Final because Kennedy and Simpson ran riot - which allowed Johns to stamp his authority on the match.

And take your Blue and Gold glasses off, mate - Hindmarsh, in his overall career, wasn't as good as Kennedy.

As for Budetus, let us put it this way: between Hindmarsh and Buderus, one is considered a modern day great of his position. The other - well, where exactly would Hindmarsh rank in the best second rowers since 2000? I adore the bloke, but SBW, Kennedy, Tallis, Simpson, Gallen, Stewart, and Myles can all be said to be just as good (or better) than Hindy and achieved more in the game.

I think Hindy and Caylo are legends, but compare them to their contemporaries and their standing is a rude shock. I think we have a tendency to overrate our legends.

 

[TheParraboy]

Comparing Cayless to some others is a rude shock, agree there.

Not so sure about Hindmarsh

Im almost sure he won plenty of Daily M second row player and Peoples players awards in the 2000s, certainly a heck of a lot more than Kennedy. He was consistantly better performer than Kennedy IMO.

 

[Gary Gutful]

I think we have a tendency to overrate our legends.

Including Hayne.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Yeah look Pou that record is still not great.

Only half the win rate without him? At their peak, greats like Lockyer and Johns only made their teams win an extra 50% of the time. Hayne offers the Eels an extra 100% of wins (i.e. double).

I never said any other player at the Eels was an influential as Hayne, but if you mean the entire NRL then Inglis, Smith and Thurston are easily as influential, while SBW, Brett Stewart, Carney and even Barba are around there.

So I'm sure you could provide their team's winning percentage without them compared to with them.

Or maybe you can't...

Also, you say they aren't in the 'Hayne class of influence' when the record is 8 wins when Hayne plays, 3 wins when he doesn't. 16% difference. Lockyer had 21% difference and Johns 22%. 49-10 and 85-16, and that's without counting their full careers. I'd say it's definitely in the Hayne class of influence.

I have never seen anybody fail at simple maths harder than you failed in this paragraph. You don't subtract one from the other, you compare them as percentages. That involves the divide and multiply buttons on your calculator.

Newcastle lost 13 straight and when Johns came back they won 8 of their last 13. I could hardly not count those games in your records.

They lost 8/16 with him that year as well, though as you say, they were 0/8 without him. Obviously you can't divide by zero (actually I reckon you will probably try) so to spread his influence over a bigger sample (say, the years either side of 2005) and you get:

Newcastle with Johns: 23/41 (56%)

Newcastle without Johns: 10/33 (30%)

So, a lot closer to Hayne's level of influence (on the field at least) in recent years, and certainly a lot more influential than Lockyer.

It also makes sense that Johns was more influential to results at the end of his career than in his prime, because he was more mature (not that he was ever mature).

 

[strider]

Hayne already peaked 09. I dont think we'll see that again

 

[Maroubra Eel]

Agree strider, 2009 was his peak and it's all downhill from there.

 

[I bleed blue & gold]

Let him go to the Dogs..

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I'm sure Hayne's running game peaked in 2009, but other aspects of his game keep improving. Not injuries but.

 

[Eelementary]

Comparing Cayless to some others is a rude shock, agree there.

Not so sure about Hindmarsh

Im almost sure he won plenty of Daily M second row player and Peoples players awards in the 2000s, certainly a heck of a lot more than Kennedy. He was consistantly better performer than Kennedy IMO.

I think both Hindy and Caylo are Eels legends and greats of the game in their own rights. Two of my favourite players, in fact.

And while Kennedy didn't win many plaudits, he was credited for turning the Sea Eagles around and was able to pretty much wreck teams single-handedly on his day.

I think if you ask impartial people to name the top back-rowers of the last decade or so, Hindy would be in the middle of the list. It doesn't mean he was a bad player - it just means we have witnessed some brilliant back-rowers come through in the last decade.

 

[Eelementary]

Including Hayne.

Possibly.

But out of all the Eels blokes I've mentioned, Hayne is the only one who would be a walk-up start to every other NRL team.

 

[Gary Gutful]

I think both Hindy and Caylo are Eels legends and greats of the game in their own rights. Two of my favourite players, in fact.

And while Kennedy didn't win many plaudits, he was credited for turning the Sea Eagles around and was able to pretty much wreck teams single-handedly on his day.

I think if you ask impartial people to name the top back-rowers of the last decade or so, Hindy would be in the middle of the list. It doesn't mean he was a bad player - it just means we have witnessed some brilliant back-rowers come through in the last decade.

How do you think impartial people would rate Hayne?

 

[Eelementary]

How do you think impartial people would rate Hayne?

As a fullback or back?

I would confidently say he'd be up there - I think he'd fare better in his list than Hindy would in his.

But it's speculation.

Anyway, my initial point simply was that, in my opinion, Hayne is a magician and we are lucky to have him.

And I think if he played for a good team, he'd be one of the best in the world by now. But, alas...

 

[strider]

I'm sure Hayne's running game peaked in 2009, but other aspects of his game keep improving. Not injuries but.

even his passing game was as good as now .... he was an absolute freak in '09 - never to be seen again

 

[Eelementary]

We haven't seen Hayne use his kicking game much lately. Probably because of his leg injuries.

But it's a shame - he has a good boot on him.

 

[Gary Gutful]

As a fullback or back?

I would confidently say he'd be up there - I think he'd fare better in his list than Hindy would in his.

But it's speculation.

Anyway, my initial point simply was that, in my opinion, Hayne is a magician and we are lucky to have him.

And I think if he played for a good team, he'd be one of the best in the world by now. But, alas...

I said impartial people, not Hayne fanboys! :

 

[Eelementary]

I said impartial people, not Hayne fanboys! :

Haha fair enough.

I think the biggest danger when it comes to ranking players is that people fall into the trap of not rating someone because they haven't won a Premiership (or overrating someone because they have).

But it would be an interesting list to see.

 

[Gary Gutful]

Haha fair enough.

I think the biggest danger when it comes to ranking players is that people fall into the trap of not rating someone because they haven't won a Premiership (or overrating someone because they have).

But it would be an interesting list to see.

Those sorts of lists exist.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/power-rankings-from-sunherald-20120225-1tvmq.html

You are right, there are a lot of premiership winners ahead of Hayne on these lists. However did they win a premiership because they are great or are they great because they won a premiership? Shane Perry anyone?

 

[I bleed blue & gold]

LOL. Some f*cking idiot had Ennis at 7 on their list. Hahahahaha.

 

[Gary Gutful]

Must be a relative.